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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    Protest what? There are hardly any legal moto trails around here. I might even support opening up more for them, but the reality is that motos have a huge impact and need to be limited to certain areas.
    Huge impact on clearing trails with chainsaws? Mountain bikers hardly do shit around here to keep things open. A lot of trails wouldn't open for months without dirt bikes clearing trees.

    Just like for mountain bikes, if you start taking away trails and limiting use to certain ones, those trails will suffer.

    This trail would likely disappear if it weren't for dirt bikes (portions of it have).
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    My Montana has an East Infection

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    yes, well the whole thing about elitism has a fair basis here (geographically, where I live). Here the rich people have used all that granola/fitness-elitism/erosion bullshit and closed a lot of our town’s trails to anyone except them.

    If learn to live with it is going to be the bottom line, fine, these bikes are coming regardless of your feelings. “Learn to live with it.”
    I don't understand how the "rich people" close the trails to everyone except them when you are arguing for considering a motorized vehicle that costs more than a human powered mountain bike as the same.

    It sounds like trails got closed to motorcycles.

    Plenty of rich people play on motorcycles.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountainman View Post
    Huge impact on clearing trails with chainsaws? Mountain bikers hardly do shit around here to keep things open. A lot of trails wouldn't open for months without dirt bikes clearing trees.

    Just like for mountain bikes, if you start taking away trails and limiting use to certain ones, those trails will suffer.

    This trail would likely disappear if it weren't for dirt bikes (portions of it have).
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    Sounds like a different trail system with different conditions and needs?

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Where does Rainier fit into this equation?
    Everywhere.

    Ranier fits everywhere.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    I don't understand how the "rich people" close the trails to everyone except them when you are arguing for considering a motorized vehicle that costs more than a human powered mountain bike as the same.
    That's because you don't know history.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACH View Post
    Yeah... You live in a microcosm - Bellingham is nice from a cycling perspective but not the norm...
    Has a shit ton of rad moto trails too
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountainman View Post
    Huge impact on clearing trails with chainsaws? Mountain bikers hardly do shit around here to keep things open. A lot of trails wouldn't open for months without dirt bikes clearing trees.

    Just like for mountain bikes, if you start taking away trails and limiting use to certain ones, those trails will suffer.

    This trail would likely disappear if it weren't for dirt bikes (portions of it have).
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    Dude!!!!! You still have an account here!!! Who woulda thought it.

    Hope you are doing well.

    Now back to the single viewpoint bashing!!!!


    One thing I have noticed that you touched on a bit is, Mountain Bikers/Motos/Trail Runners etc get restricted to fewer and fewer trails and suddenly those trails are overrun with Mountain Bikers/Motos/Trail Runners and there is conflict. Where if there were more options there would be less crowding and less conflict.

  8. #208
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    We call the above scenario "canada"

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Has a shit ton of rad moto trails too
    No legal moto trails in Whatcom county and with the big new trail expansion/recreation plan they are likely to be pushed out of some longtime unsanctioned areas.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    We call the above scenario "canada"
    Yes indeed.
    Conflict does happen, but it rarely makes it back to the parking lot, especially a couple hundred kms further north of the border.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    I don't understand .
    real clearly: the trails here are not built to be ridden on cheap bikes, and usurped trails that used to be used primarily by old beater pickup trucks and jeeps and atvs and dirtbikes. Here, for many reasons, normal people of average fitness and income don't get $3000 full suspension bicycles and ride the rooty rocky trail system the yuppie contingent took over and closed to the rest of the county, who mostly get out on trails by way of motorized stuff.

    Probably different elsewhere, I get it. It's an elitist thing here. The trailhead is full of shiny new Silverados and $5000 bikes and sprinter vans every day. The bike shops treat you like you're worthless if you can't spend a few thousand dollars on a bike. Meanwhile you can buy a ripping dirtbike any day of the week off craigslist for $700.

    That bullshit about riding trails on a cheap bicycle doesn't apply here. If you want to go ride anything but the little kids trail on a cheap bike, you're going to break the bike at best, go to the hospital at worst. The whole thing here is actual dentist-types seized a bunch of old jeep trails many people loved, and built trails you can only ride on expensive bikes, and shut off access to anything but bikes. It is what it is.

  12. #212
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    Sounds fun... ;-)

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    That bullshit about riding trails on a cheap bicycle doesn't apply here. If you want to go ride anything but the little kids trail on a cheap bike, you're going to break the bike at best, go to the hospital at worst.
    Some of the rowdiest trails I've ever ridden were built in the 80's when everyone was riding rigid bikes with cantilever brakes. Your trails aren't special. If you want to ride them on a $500 bike from craigslist, you definitely can.



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    No legal moto trails in Whatcom county

    You say the darndest things


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    People travel specifically to glacier to ride that trail. It's awesome.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Some of the rowdiest trails I've ever ridden were built in the 80's when everyone was riding rigid bikes with cantilever brakes. Your trails aren't special. If you want to ride them on a $500 bike from craigslist, you definitely can.


    Was just going to say the same. Absolutely. You can get a great FS 26er or even a few yrs old 650b/29er for cheap money.

    Or, buy a cheaper used full rigid fat bike and those trails will be that much easier then the old school rigid bikes. I picked up a yr old Beargrease for $700.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    You say the darndest things


    Click image for larger version. 

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    People travel specifically to glacier to ride that trail. It's awesome.
    Well then the moto people must be lying when then say they have no legal places to ride in Whatcom county?

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Some of the rowdiest trails I've ever ridden were built in the 80's when everyone was riding rigid bikes with cantilever brakes. Your trails aren't special. If you want to ride them on a $500 bike from craigslist, you definitely can.
    Exactly - isn't the late 80's / early 90's the era of technical trail building? There's a few in Tahoe I can think of that were built around that time and since have had an alternate route built that you can ride faster. And despite the old ones now being easier on newer bikes, they get way less traffic because they're slow.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    real clearly: the trails here are not built to be ridden on cheap bikes, and usurped trails that used to be used primarily by old beater pickup trucks and jeeps and atvs and dirtbikes. Here, for many reasons, normal people of average fitness and income don't get $3000 full suspension bicycles and ride the rooty rocky trail system the yuppie contingent took over and closed to the rest of the county, who mostly get out on trails by way of motorized stuff.

    Probably different elsewhere, I get it. It's an elitist thing here. The trailhead is full of shiny new Silverados and $5000 bikes and sprinter vans every day. The bike shops treat you like you're worthless if you can't spend a few thousand dollars on a bike. Meanwhile you can buy a ripping dirtbike any day of the week off craigslist for $700.

    That bullshit about riding trails on a cheap bicycle doesn't apply here. If you want to go ride anything but the little kids trail on a cheap bike, you're going to break the bike at best, go to the hospital at worst. The whole thing here is actual dentist-types seized a bunch of old jeep trails many people loved, and built trails you can only ride on expensive bikes, and shut off access to anything but bikes. It is what it is.
    Pickup trucks drive on roads, not trails.

    Around here there use to be lots of "anything goes" land.

    It was destroyed. Litter, target practice, dumped and shot up appliances and cars, teenager parties, vegetation destroyed by people seeing how far they can get their motorized vehicles up non trails...

    Mud, erosion, stream beds polluted and destroyed...

    Maybe people in Michigan have more respect for the land than people in Washington, but as populations increase, anything goes land decreases...

    Toast and Jackstraw are correct on the bike quality. I've seen it done. You have to use technique and finesse rather than speed and brawn.

    You could also get involved with trail building and maintenance and have a say in what type of trail you want.. it sounds like super smooth and not very steep?

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Some of the rowdiest trails I've ever ridden were built in the 80's when everyone was riding rigid bikes with cantilever brakes. Your trails aren't special. If you want to ride them on a $500 bike from craigslist, you definitely can.



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I was not there back in those days, but from the videos ive seen and the stories ive heard the folks riding those kind of trails then were basically masochists. They expected to crash a whole bunch and embraced the sketchy, dangerous, and stupid part of the activity. Lots of bikes and bodies were broken, despite them just picking their way down the stuff.

    I wouldnt find that all that fun. I would much prefer being able to rip down stuff in control and with a modicum of playfulness. Just because you can ride a trail on shitty equipment, doesnt make it fun or safe to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    You say the darndest things

    People travel specifically to ride that trail. It's awesome.
    Eh, probably better to let her exist in her bubble than to let her know how much cool stuff is actually around her. she would probably agree as she thinks introducing new riders to trails is detrimental to the sport.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountainman View Post
    Mountain bikers hardly do shit around here to keep things open.
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    SWMT Counterpoint:

    https://m.facebook.com/events/174265669961805
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Though to be honest, horses do carry the chainsaw(s) uphill...

    Last year we cleared every trail in the Henry's Mountains (Mile, Sheep, Targhee Creek/Pass, Coffin Lake etc.) and pending turnout should do so again this year...

    Y'all can go back to making fun of e-bike(r)s now... [back to lurking]

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Exactly - isn't the late 80's / early 90's the era of technical trail building?
    Maybe in dh races and only then in the late 90s.

    there was no "mtb trail building" back then really. Which is why most of those trails are way better than mtb specific stuff. There was no concern of being able to pedal up it. Now there is. And it screws up the descending part. Trails doubling back on themselves 50 times on a 2% grade instead of just going from point A to B.


    I've actually been riding a ton of trails around Tahoe lately that are mostly not really on mountainbike radar. I enjoy them a lot more. I've got a good running list if you want. 100% of them were built before mountainbikes were a thing.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montana Rider View Post
    SWMT Counterpoint:

    https://m.facebook.com/events/174265669961805
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Though to be honest, horses do carry the chainsaw(s) uphill...

    Last year we cleared every trail in the Henry's Mountains (Mile, Sheep, Targhee Creek/Pass, Coffin Lake etc.) and pending turnout should do so again this year...

    Y'all can go back to making fun of e-bike(r)s now... [back to lurking]
    Thanks for the trail clearing. Especially 313 , Razorback etc. Made my donation to Bitterroots and looking up SW MT counterpart

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    They expected to crash a whole bunch and embraced the sketchy, dangerous, and stupid part of the activity.
    Still my world pretty much
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montana Rider View Post
    Y'all can go back to making fun of e-bike(r)s now... [back to lurking]
    I don't think many are making fun of e-bikes. I can envision myself getting one in several years for certain uses. Grinch's point of being able to "shuttle" without a car is a good one.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    Well then the moto people must be lying when then say they have no legal places to ride in Whatcom county?
    Whatcom county JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY suffers from something going on the forest service called the travel management rule that went into place in 2005. It required the FS to inventory all roads and trails on their district, and then produce a map like the one above to designate routes. Of course they have no money or time to do that so they all did a partial job of inventorying about 15% of what's out there. So now since there are tons of trails and roads that exist yet weren't inventoried and don't appear on the map, they're technically illegal to ride. The gumption with which that gets enforced varies widely by forest, and even by ranger districts within those forests.

    So no, they and you aren't entirely incorrect. Most of the riding exists in a gray area. But it does exist, and most of it you won't get ticketed for riding. That's just on forest service land though. There are a shit ton of other trail networks on other property that also exist in a kind of gray area.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

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