Electric Bike Thread

[nest]

Hey!
You can fuck right off with this shit...
Just because you discovered mountain biking in the recent past doesn't give you the right to tell anyone jack shit.

I was on the front line of early advocacy efforts, fought for access on trails that mountain bikers had no hand in building or maintaining. I've also been a part of building more trial than most here.

So get off that tall fucking horse of yours and try not to hurt up yourself in the process.

G-buzz, I have finally heard enough of your shit.
If you can't be constructive and see that your point of view isn't only point of view, then yes, for fuck sake STFU/GTFO!
Goes for the rest of you my-way-or-the-highway fucktards in this place.

Point of self aggrandizing foaming at the mouth rant is what?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[grinch]

Good point in there ACH. A lot of the trails we as mt bikers use are pre mt bike trails used by hikers, miners, horseback, loggers etc. Stewardship , as well as being the largest user group on the trail these days, has made a lot of the trails known as pretty much mt bike trails exclusively. I guess a lot of ebikers are mt bikers that also have e bikes. They as well as new riders could help advocacy for all. I’d be curious to see who the main advocates and trail workers are in Europe and if it’s changing or how much it’s changing

[mtngirl79]

Yup, because all the ebikers saying they don't give a fuck about the rules in place, they will take their motors anyway is absolutely nothing to worry about.

Just shut up about it!

[grinch]

Yup, because all the mt bikers saying they don't give a fuck about the rules in place, they will take their mt bikes anyway is absolutely nothing to worry about.

Just shut up about it!

Just a couple tiny changes and it’s pretty much what horseback riders told us in the early 90’s. They were worried about the speed the bikes would be approaching them as well. Most of the arguments and bans eventually settled on the erosion argument . Eventually disproved. Sound familiar?

[mtngirl79]

Not really. Most Horse riders and many hikers still hate mountain bikers and hate sharing the trails with us. Ebikes being lumped with mountain bikes is more leverage for them.

A motor is a motor and a ebike is not a human powered mountain bike no matter how much fun you think it is or how much you want it to be.

Maybe special edz could donate some money for advacacy efforts?

[grinch]

Oh well. Facts be damned I guess. Good luck. I’ll wait for your book so I can edjamacate myself on this mt bike phenomenon. Sounds fun

[toast2266]

Just a couple tiny changes and it’s pretty much what horseback riders told us in the early 90’s. They were worried about the speed the bikes would be approaching them as well. Most of the arguments and bans eventually settled on the erosion argument . Eventually disproved. Sound familiar?

That discussion is very much still in the present tense in my neck of the woods.

Doesn't mean I have anything in particular against ebikers. I just don't want those ongoing discussions with the horse and foot crowds to get more complicated. It's been enough of a struggle to differentiate mountain bikes from dirt bikes (they both have two wheels, so they're basically the same, right?). Ebikes introduce all kinds of grey into that conversation, and that really isn't what we need right now.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[wooley12]

As a kid on my Columbia I poached the horse trails in the park with my posse. The trails had bermed corners and jumps at the bottom of downhills. An old wrangler caught us one time a threw my bike in the lake.

[grinch]

That discussion is very much still in the present tense in my neck of the woods.

Doesn't mean I have anything in particular against ebikers. I just don't want those ongoing discussions with the horse and foot crowds to get more complicated. It's been enough of a struggle to differentiate mountain bikes from dirt bikes (they both have two wheels, so they're basically the same, right?). Ebikes introduce all kinds of grey into that conversation, and that really isn't what we need right now.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Ya I get ya. I don’t know where they’ll fit in or even if they will fit in. I figure there’ll be a fairly large influx of them in the near future though. I’m just trying to be even handed. It would be hypocritical of me to call for a e bike ban for the same reason horse back riders used on me. Maybe I don’t have all the facts yet though. I used to be so pissed running from the cops for the crime of mt biking and I had zero conflict on the trail(I was doing km long bushwhacked entering and exiting trails to not get busted). Rarely saw anyone on the trails. Trail use was dictated by old cowboy wardens and horseback guiding companies(neither did any trail work to their horse piss filled horse steps). A lot of the hate on mt bikers was a perceived threat rooted in ignorance. Tried advocacy then said fuck it, catch me. 25 yrs living in Banff national park is as rough as anywhere for advocacy. Because of that I don’t get involved in any politics now. I donate when I can to trail groups and cut deadfall solo when needed(in excess of 60hrs on the hand saw last yr with a big blow down and fire ban no chainsaw in effect). Every area has its unique set of issues though. Where to focus the advocacy might be the question soon enough(together with e bikes or against them)

[grinch]

Not really. Most Horse riders and many hikers still hate mountain bikers and hate sharing the trails with us. Ebikes being lumped with mountain bikes is more leverage for them.

A motor is a motor and a ebike is not a human powered mountain bike no matter how much fun you think it is or how much you want it to be.

Maybe special edz could donate some money for advacacy efforts?

Some research for your upcoming bike bible




Remy is Julian’s brother. Julian is xc legend, multiple x’s world champion , Olympic champion. Bet he has an ebike too and probably trains and rides the piss out of it. Disclaimer; human power was used in the making of these vids
NSFA (not suitable for advocates)

[mtngirl79]

None of that changes the fact that ebikes have motors.

[mtngirl79]

It would be hypocritical of me to call for a e bike ban for the same reason horse back riders used on me.

Horse riders wanted to ban you for having a motor?

[grinch]

Horse riders wanted to ban you for having a motor?

You’re being obtuse.

[gravitylover]

It's one of her specialties

[mtngirl79]

What's obtuse is thinking the world should ignore the fact that ebikes have motors and the can of worms it would open if they were allowed everywhere regular bikes are.

[grinch]

What's obtuse is thinking the world should ignore the fact that ebikes have motors and the can of worms it would open if they were allowed everywhere regular bikes are.

Until I get a crystal ball I’ll just see how the rest of the industrialized nations(with higher population density) are dealing with it or until your bike bible is released. Thanks for the snippet on it though. A trail er so to speak?

[Bunion 2020]

Every area has its unique set of issues though. Where to focus the advocacy might be the question soon enough(together with e bikes or against them)

Exactly. The trail I was riding yesterday is considered by many a sacrifice area. It was heavily logged in the early/mid 90s and the existing trail was destroyed. Some $$$ was found to restore the trail system and it was rebuilt by a legend of a trail builder (RIP).

The 20 miles is about 95% single track. It sees a lot of use from Motorcycles, ATVs and side by sides and horses and is a very popular mountain bike trail as well as a trail for distance runners.

Essentially all the people that are hated by those wanting to save the Wilderness.

What's obtuse is thinking the world should ignore the fact that ebikes have motors and the can of worms it would open if they were allowed everywhere regular bikes are.

I haven't seen anyone advancing that theory here just yet, have you?

[JerseyDave]

Bottom line. We advocated for non-motorized use for decades to gain access all over. Ebikes are motorized. Any futher conversation by anyone is an attempt to blur a very clear line.

EMTBers should advocate for themselves. There should not be a blanket policy by IMBA, USFS, or anyone else that Ebikes are just like bikes and all access for one is access for another. Likewise, *some* MTB specific trails can support ebike use, but that should come with more resources for that trail network because yes, putting an electric motor on your mtb will increase weight, speed, and impact.

Honestly it makes way less sense to me in the East than out west, in Europe or in bigger landscapes in general. I mean, who on the east coast that could or would be willing to drop 6, 7, 8+ grand on an ebike can't get it done on the new technology, new wheel sizes, completely inverted drive trains pushing what, a 26t by 50t on our tiny hills and spaghetti boul bike parks?

Our trails are clogged up enough. Our public lands are small. Our trail networks struggle with finding enough help to maintain the current level of traffic and we have enough user conflict already. Locally, keeping our trails that see regular hikers as climbs for the MTB loop has been key. It keeps everyone moving at near the same speed which is really what allows people to use trails in harmony. To have an electric motor pushing us up the hill at 8-10 mph vs 4 mph really does change everything in terms of our diverse group of trail users coexisting.

I think they are dumb. I don't get pretending to pedal. For 7 grand I would be elbow deep in the KTM website looking at those sick 2 strokes, but that's just me.

The issue is the black and white nature of the conversation being put forward by the industry and it's associated shills like IMBA. EBikes are not bikes, so it makes no sense to just coat-tail their use in with non-motorized use. I think this NEW set of trail users need to demonstrate a willingness to do the leg work, do the trail work, and advocate piece by piece where they are allowed to ride. In time we will see the real issues, not imagined or speculated, come to the surface......or not.

In the mean time I take some pleasure in kicking the entitled pricks that have shown up to ride our trails T.F.Out. I don't say that a blanket statement, these two were real fucking pricks.
Carry on.

[gravitylover]

The weight and speed things aren't really true though. What's the difference between a 160 pound rider on a 42# bike vs a 175# rider on a 27# bike? Net weight difference = 0. Argument fail. Uphill speed can be faster but that's really dependent on the rider isn't it? I regularly ride with a couple of septuagenarians and one octogenarian on e-bikes and while they can climb faster than me they almost never do other than on wide open doubletracks. So lets ban rude and ignorant users rather than the bike. Argument nullified.

The motorized problem (IMO) seems to be more based on excessive power and the big one is noise. The excessive power, roosting and tearing up trails seems to be handled pretty well by lots of dirt bike riders but most class 1, pedal assist bikes DO NOT have the kind of torque necessary to do that kind of damage even if the user wanted to. The noise argument is moot so toss it.

Next?

[mtngirl79]

In Washington State they are illegal on all non motorized (because they have motors!) natural surface trails unless specifically allowed by land managers.

Quit your bitching and start advocating for your motors.

[reckless toboggan]

As has been covered many, many times before, Pretend To Pedal ebikes can easily be modified via simple and widely available software (and occasionally hardware) to remove power restrictions, and they will only grow more powerful over time.

Pretend To Pedal ebikes have a motor; therefore, they may only be used on trails and roads sanction for motorised use.

[Shredhead]

Fuck off.

Motors are motors. Keep your fucking motors on trails motors are allowed on.

People ignoring access rules get trails closed.

Regardless if they are hot or not.

So much anger. It must be tuff, telling everyone what to do.



It would be nice if they changed the signs, since they change the law. But I understand they don’t have the funding.
Probably wouldn’t stop some Jane Hathaway wannabe from mocking me anyhow, since my bike looks like an ebike.

Do you ever ignore the leash law with Murph?


MYOB

[reckless toboggan]

Hey!
You can fuck right off with this shit...
Just because you discovered mountain biking in the recent past doesn't give you the right to tell anyone jack shit.

I was on the front line of early advocacy efforts, fought for access on trails that mountain bikers had no hand in building or maintaining. I've also been a part of building more trial than most here.

So get off that tall fucking horse of yours and try not to hurt up yourself in the process.

G-buzz, I have finally heard enough of your shit.
If you can't be constructive and see that your point of view isn't only point of view, then yes, for fuck sake STFU/GTFO!
Goes for the rest of you my-way-or-the-highway fucktards in this place.

.

So much anger. It must be tuff, telling everyone what to do.

[mtngirl79]

So much anger. It must be tuff, telling everyone what to do.



It would be nice if they changed the signs, since they change the law. But I understand they don’t have the funding.
Probably wouldn’t stop some Jane Hathaway wannabe from mocking me anyhow, since my bike looks like an ebike.

Do you ever ignore the leash law with Murph?


MYOB

Sign looks good to me. No motorized vehicles.

I follow leash laws. There are tons of off leash areas and trails here, including most of our mountain bike trails.

People who do not obey leash laws get dogs banned from places, and I realise some people really do not like dogs or are afraid or have dogs that cannot handle other dogs off leash approaching them, etc etc.

Since there are tons of off leash options I respect those that are not.

It's not hard.

[muted]

You better have a well trained dog that follows at your heels if it's off leash. Lotta dumb-asses (or often new dog owners) out there. Not the best argument to bring up Shredhead.