Fence Installation Question

[The AD]

I'm replacing a fence in my yard. It's pretty standard design: posts about 8 feet apart, two 2x4 for supports horizontal between posts, then vertical cedar boards screwed into the 2x4s. My question is how much spacing should I allow between the vertical boards? It seems like some people say to allow a gap, but one video I watched said lumber fresh from the lumber yard will contract and make any gaps even wider, so butt the boards right up against each other. Anyone with fence installation experience have advice?

[Supermoon]

We just put a fence in and we have about a quarter inch between our slats. No idea if that’s the right way or not, but it’s good so far four months in.

[The AD]

Did you butt the boards together or space them 1/4" when you screwed the boards in?

[Vt-Freeheel]

Wood usually swells in the summer and shrinks in the winter as the air is dryer here, in the NE. Seattle might be humid all the time, so closer for privacy?

[GeezerSteve]

We finished a vertical board cedar fence a month ago, went with 3/8"" spacing between boards. There's no wrong answer.

[tuco]

Did you butt the boards together or space them 1/4" when you screwed the boards in?

If it's a 6 ft fence, use 3 horizontals.
Space fence slats 1/4" apart

[Supermoon]

Did you butt the boards together or space them 1/4" when you screwed the boards in?

I think they are definitely a little further apart than when they went in. Looking at it closely for the first time.

[snowaddict91]

I did 1/4" on the sections I added and I think it looks good. I'm sure its shrunk some since its so dry here. If I did it again I'd probably use a nail gun.

[old goat]

If the boards are wet definitely butt them. I don't like to see gaps. Once the boards dry I nail battens to the gaps, but I only nail them to one side of the gap. Another option is to overlap the boards. Either way will allow the individual boards to expand and contract freely and I think the look is less boring than the usual flat fence. Consider using steel z-posts. They'll last a lot longer than wood and accommodate the horizontal rails on edge which means less sag. You can box in the steel posts on the back side of the fence if you like.

[The AD]

The boards are definitely not dry. I think I'll butt them. My wife wants as little gap as possible (that's what he said).

[The AD]

north facing overlapped fence boards rot here in the pnwet.

This part of the fence is facing west.

[old goat]

north facing overlapped fence boards rot here in the pnwet.

good point. my fence building experience is in Sacramento (it's a dry heat) California. In any case, it would be a good idea to treat the boards first, before nailing in place. Even with standard construction there's wood to wood contact that can rot where the boards are nailed to the rails. However, IME the boards usually rot from the ground up as dirt and leaves and stuff gets piled against the bottom of the boards.
Like Flowing I have built hundreds of feet of fence, although in my case it's the same 100 feet over and over again. Lot's of experience with fences failing.

[The AD]

I thought the idea was cedar doesn't need to be treated?

[Ted Striker]

The boards are definitely not dry. I think I'll butt them. My wife wants as little gap as possible (that's what he said).

Then definitely butt them together. Cedar is harvested so green these days that the boards will shrink for sure.

I thought the idea was cedar doesn't need to be treated?

It doesn't need to be treated/stained (if you avoid ground contact), but it will turn gray if you don't.

[The AD]

It doesn't need to be treated/stained (if you avoid ground contact), but it will turn gray if you don't.

Got it. So it depends on whether you like the weathered look or not.

[reckless toboggan]

Got it. So it depends on whether you like the weathered look or not.

It depends on whether you like the weathered look or not and what the local weather looks like whether you like it or not.

[Ted Striker]

Random thoughts:

Lowe's and Home Depot have crappy lumber. I'd only use them for a "keep the dogs in, nobody is going to see it" fence. Otherwise, go to an actual lumber store. Same goes for finish/stain.

Use pressure treated posts and 2x4s.

Buy a can of end cut solution for the posts and 2x4s.

The Quikrete fast setting in the red bag is good for posts. In the pnw, the ground is so wet that you can mix it right in the hole.

One of the biggest rookie mistakes is making the gate too heavy. Two horizontal rails and a diagonal are plenty.

A post level will save time and headaches.

And screws will make a strong fence, but a nail gun is waaay faster.

[AK47bp]

Whether or not the weather weathers it is a different discussion.


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[Jethro]

I’ve dealt with old fences and handrails which have been shot together with pneumatic nailers. Please don’t do that. You will be revisiting every loose board in a few years. coated star drive screws for the Win. They cost a lot more, and are way slower to install, and are worthier every cent and second saved

[Lahar]

one video I watched said lumber fresh from the lumber yard will contract and make any gaps even wider, so butt the boards right up against each other.

^^^ This. Cedar fence boards are cut fresh and stacked, and will never hold that much water as a fence. Butt it up and you will be left with 1/8-1/4" gaps once dry.

[tuco]

Random thoughts:

Lowe's and Home Depot have crappy lumber. I'd only use them for a "keep the dogs in, nobody is going to see it" fence. Otherwise, go to an actual lumber store. Same goes for finish/stain.

Use pressure treated posts and 2x4s.

Buy a can of end cut solution for the posts and 2x4s.

The Quikrete fast setting in the red bag is good for posts. In the pnw, the ground is so wet that you can mix it right in the hole.

One of the biggest rookie mistakes is making the gate too heavy. Two horizontal rails and a diagonal are plenty.

A post level will save time and headaches.

And screws will make a strong fence, but a nail gun is waaay faster.

I bought my fence slats from LS, they are 7/8 instead of 3/4 typically found at HIC.
PT posts for sure(or the z post OG suggests, although you can stand the horizontals on edge with a simpson type connector), Horizontal are fine being cedar.

north facing overlapped fence boards rot here in the pnwet.

Sprinklers will have same effect

I’ve dealt with old fences and handrails which have been shot together with pneumatic nailers. Please don’t do that. You will be revisiting every loose board in a few years. coated star drive screws for the Win. They cost a lot more, and are way slower to install, and are worthier every cent and second saved

Do yourself a favor and do what Jethro suggests. Fences move a lot. Nails back out, screws dont

[skuff]

Hire a contractor to install the posts. Use kiln dried cedar and it won’t shrink. I would use Phillips screws instead of the “star” screws, less expensive and work just as well.

[Johnny P]

I use a common nail in between the boards. Nailer is the best way. But star and Philips screws... come on. Hey some Robertson screws you guys. Far superior.

[old goat]

PT posts for sure(or the z post OG suggests, although you can stand the horizontals on edge with a simpson type connector), Horizontal are fine being cedar.

Or you can let the rails into dadoes in the posts, but that's more work than most people want to do.
Cedar and redwood are rot resistant, not rot proof. I would still treat.

[The AD]

Yes, I'm using screws not nails. Yeah, I'm sure a nail gun is quicker, but screwing a screw through cedar isn't exactly laborious.