Back issues. Recommendations.

[rod9301]

This book applies to sedentary, stressed out office workers and sedentary, frustrated housewives. It's not for athletes. It's not for people who's jobs require endless repetitive motion in the back joints . For those of us who feel pain as a result of real injuries or because we over used our joints through hundreds and hundreds of powder days, Sarno's schtick is less than worthless. It is bad information. I'm here to tell you that when the numbness starts, go to a neurosurgeon immediately. It is not in your head.

If you go around believing Sarno, that its all in your head, you'll be tempted to fight through pain. You'll think a warmup and a few ibuprofens and you are good to go. You might be tempted to blame yourself for not shaking this pain thats supposedly all in your head. If it's just in your head, then according to Sarno, you aren't doing any lasting damage, right? Wrong. You are just ignoring what your body is trying to tell you and you'll end up with worn out joints in your back. Once that is done, there's no magic bullet for you then. There's no fancy miraculous joint replacement waiting for you.

Yes

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[Self Jupiter]

Yesx2

[cat in january]

Only read first page
to the OP, know a few months down the road but: my first advise is to look at your workout routine. A lot of pain comes from inflamation and exercising something that is inflamed can be counter productive. You need to get the back to settle down first. IB with food, steroid shots if you want. Really work on posture. Take walks. Baby your back until it is good. Get alignments. Most important thing is good posture/alignment and balanced muscle groups. The 3 things I have found most beneficial for me are: posture/body awareness-yoga tuned me in to this, but don't do it much now, walking, planking for core-crunches and sit ups hurt me.

I had surgery 15 years ago on L3L4 and had a subsequent herniation at L4l5 that I managed. Surgery worked out very well for me and surgeon said in addition to the squished disc material there were cartilage shards that could have been problematic. Avoiding surgery is definitely best, but can relieve pressure. In my case I had foot drop on one side that went away.

[Cono Este]

Cat in Jan you are so right. For 7 yrs I’ve been trying to change my workout, or work around it, and it never got better. I went from heavy lifting, to running, to cycling all the way back to swimming the last yr. And it would always tighten up. But It’s so hard to accept giving up exercise.

In last 2 months Ive gone for light hikes 2-3 a week and the pain is gone. I also take Celebrex which seems like a miracle drug.

Hoping 6 months taking it easy and the disc can he somehow.


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[4matic]

Good to hear CE. Posture! Chin up when you walk. Nice soft heal toe roll.

I’m starting a strength program using MedX equipment and a trainer.

[riser4]

Bump.

[swissiphic]

Multiple lower back muscle spasm incidents this summer resulting in bedrest for a total of 11 days and many more of limited function and compromised mobility. Following recovery after each incident, life was normal with just residual low grade soreness. The most frightening/frustrating thing about the spasms is that they all occurred seemingly without direct obvious cause. One minute walking around the house, take a normal step, feel a little twing after turning head to grab a pillow and WHAMMO....lightning bolt spasm, drop to the floor and crawl to bed and rest for 5 days. Aging sux and it ain't for wimps.

Things I learned:

1. My particular issue results in inability to get out of bed without basically wriggling to the floor and doing a three step process to get upright. Future project when back is better is to install ceiling to bed ropes/handles to pull body upright as that motion doesn't aggravate condition.

2. Found a free 'walker' at a garage sale in the spring...it's been a savior during the worst of the days for moving from bed to a max range of kitchen and bathroom.

3. Ice seemed to work in the past but no beuno this time....lying on heat pad is the only thing that took the edge off pain and help relax the spasm for intervals of time.

4. The back pain meds work but the fuzzy brain and hangovers are brutal so I stopped using em.

5. Couldn't sit on the throne so constructed a lower lumber support block and it saved many a days from the most feared and frustrating responsibility of the really bad days. Used a shoe box filled with some 2 x 6 pieces of wood with cushioning layer of foam on the lower back face. Game changer.

[4matic]

I was getting deep tissue massage and the therapist demonstrated true deep tissue on my calf. I asked for it.. Now it has nerve and muscle damage that will take months to heal. Lol.. I got results from the Chiropractor in that the numbness is gone in my lower back but the manipulations left me with additional nerve pain in my legs and I just can't handle getting my neck adjusted. It freaks me out. Without strength training on top of Chiro I'm a skeptic of the science.

I just had session one with MedX equipment and a trainer. I feel pretty good and I like the concept.

Rolfing not going to work for my problem. I did learn a few things from the therapist but it is expensive and not worth continuing.

[4matic]

Oh yeah, those severe muscle pains you guys are having. Those are slowly adding up to cause permanent nerve damage so respect that you need to strengthen and maybe prevent chronic issues later.

[RootSkier]

Future project when back is better is to install ceiling to bed ropes/handles to pull body upright as that motion doesn't aggravate condition.

The ropes and chains will also make you fuck good.

The toilet photo...what exactly did you photoshop out of the bowl? Do we even want to know?

[LongShortLong]

Get it before it goes chronic, or look at this if you didn't
Chronic pain guy at Stanford - says intensive PT and psychotherapy
https://www.ted.com/talks/elliot_kra...f_chronic_pain

I attended Stanford back pain clinic a few years ago. Main takeaway, from head of the department (Mackey) - we don't know that much about how to treat.

I'm still stuck in hell myself, but believe the path out is PT, posture, and learning to address the small muscles that have become weak. I'd advise against resting too much to try to get better. You need a PT who's a real stickler for form - making the big muscles strong most likely is not enough may even be harmful. They must be hands on, feeling and checking that you're using the correct muscles. I find it's very difficult to get the inner core to engage/do the work, and my specific weaknesses I'm totally blind to without help. Even with help it's tough get the inhibited muscles to do anything, the default patterns using dominant muscles are just that - dominant.

Medicine is lost here b/c there's dozens of bones in the area, with many more tendons, ligaments, muscles, nerves, etc. That, and the extremities can be important too (e.g. how you use your foot) - now you're looking at most of the bones and muscles any one or several can be 'misbehaving.' Also the human is very good at compensating for weakness, meaning that for any objective condition (including severe deformities) there will be individuals all along the scale from no pain and full function* to screaming pain and disabled.

* most doctor think full function means able to eat, watch tv, and walk. vs A dentist's definition might also involve lots of skiing in quite nasty conditions.

[Fritz]

Get it before it goes chronic, or look at this if you didn't
Chronic pain guy at Stanford - says intensive PT and psychotherapy
https://www.ted.com/talks/elliot_kra...f_chronic_pain

I attended Stanford back pain clinic a few years ago. Main takeaway, from head of the department (Mackey) - we don't know that much about how to treat.

I'm still stuck in hell myself, but believe the path out is PT, posture, and learning to address the small muscles that have become weak. I'd advise against resting too much to try to get better. You need a PT who's a real stickler for form - making the big muscles strong most likely is not enough may even be harmful. They must be hands on, feeling and checking that you're using the correct muscles. I find it's very difficult to get the inner core to engage/do the work, and my specific weaknesses I'm totally blind to without help. Even with help it's tough get the inhibited muscles to do anything, the default patterns using dominant muscles are just that - dominant.

This. Just waking up the dormant muscles and improving strength imbalances helped me immensely. My back problems stemmed from strength imbalances in my hips, hammys, shoulders and chest. Not my actual back.

[Supermoon]

Get it before it goes chronic, or look at this if you didn't
Chronic pain guy at Stanford - says intensive PT and psychotherapy
https://www.ted.com/talks/elliot_kra...f_chronic_pain

I attended Stanford back pain clinic a few years ago. Main takeaway, from head of the department (Mackey) - we don't know that much about how to treat.

I'm still stuck in hell myself, but believe the path out is PT, posture, and learning to address the small muscles that have become weak. I'd advise against resting too much to try to get better. You need a PT who's a real stickler for form - making the big muscles strong most likely is not enough may even be harmful. They must be hands on, feeling and checking that you're using the correct muscles. I find it's very difficult to get the inner core to engage/do the work, and my specific weaknesses I'm totally blind to without help. Even with help it's tough get the inhibited muscles to do anything, the default patterns using dominant muscles are just that - dominant.

Medicine is lost here b/c there's dozens of bones in the area, with many more tendons, ligaments, muscles, nerves, etc. That, and the extremities can be important too (e.g. how you use your foot) - now you're looking at most of the bones and muscles any one or several can be 'misbehaving.' Also the human is very good at compensating for weakness, meaning that for any objective condition (including severe deformities) there will be individuals all along the scale from no pain and full function* to screaming pain and disabled.

* most doctor think full function means able to eat, watch tv, and walk. vs A dentist's definition might also involve lots of skiing in quite nasty conditions.

Agree with this whole heartedly. I found a PT who was an avid skier and worked with athletes and was a back specialists. That was the best thing that ever happened to my back.

We spent two months trying to get the little muscles in my back woken up and out of atrophy before we did anything to larger core muscles.

[4matic]

The semi-professionals all tell me they can fix it. The MD’s never make that claim. Ymmv.

[fomofo]

I don't know if the folks who dismissed Dr. Sarno earlier in this thread actually read him with an open mind, (or at all), but if you found your way here because you are in pain you might consider getting his book Healing Back Pain and seeing for yourself what it has to offer.

Here are a couple vids if that's an easier lead-in...



The complete film is currently streaming on Kanopy.

Video quality is not so great, but this old 20/20 clip has the substance...

[gravitylover]

Timely thread bump. I've been hurting for a few months now, can't stand up quickly or even get on a bike I started going to my favorite chiropractor back in July and he's been able to keep me mobile but some days are better than others. Lately it's been the weakness and the hot spot/burning sensation. I think it's the disc between L5>6 that's swollen the most and as it gets better and worse it messes with my mid back (that's also been problematic for 30+ years) because I'm favoring the lower. It sucks.

[4matic]

All my comments are prior to my back surgery 4/19. Surgery fixed it but I have some permanent nerve damage that affects my left lower leg.

[SumJongGuy]

Bump bump. I've been on a heating pad off and on for the past 2 weeks. Back goes POP (sciatic nerve?) about every 6 months and takes a month to fully recover. This time I was just folding laundry and reached down to get something..

I was using a wooden walking stick to pull myself up. I'm now well enough to push off my knees to get up with some pain..

Timely thread bump. I've been hurting for a few months now, can't stand up quickly or even get on a bike I started going to my favorite chiropractor back in July and he's been able to keep me mobile but some days are better than others. Lately it's been the weakness and the hot spot/burning sensation. I think it's the disc between L5>6 that's swollen the most and as it gets better and worse it messes with my mid back (that's also been problematic for 30+ years) because I'm favoring the lower. It sucks.

Hanging from a pullup bar to stretch things back out is what helps mine most. Gravity boots would probably make a big impact on healing time. I really need to try that.

All my comments are prior to my back surgery 4/19. Surgery fixed it but I have some permanent nerve damage that affects my left lower leg.

My cousin in his 70s just had some kind of ablation surgery on his back. He said it's helped a great deal. I don't know any more about that procedure though.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Probably the nerves that supply the facet joint.


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[SumJongGuy]

Probably the nerves that supply the facet joint.


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Maybe..

https://bamapain.com/facet-joint-syndrome/

Narproxin helps. It's worst when I've been in bed all night. I can usually still function with it wrapped in a lumbar support brace or weight;lifting belt.. but far from pain free.

In 2007 it happened just bending down to buckle my ski boot first day out that season. I sucked it up and skied conservatively for 2 hours. By the time I got back home after the 3 hour drive I could hardly walk from the car to the front door.

[jfost]

If someone has back pain the cause isn’t that your bones are “out of alignment”

OTOH, I wouldn’t let anyone do surgery on my back unless it’s the absolute last resort!

Good luck everyone, it’s a tough thing to have back pain…

I like that Sarno guy, we need more old-tymey MDs willing to tell people to buck up and fix themselves!

[neufox47]

If you’re healthy enough to do them, these exercises will give you a very strong back and I’ve seen them help a number of people with chronic back issues.
Pallof Press
https://www.muscleandfitness.com/wor...ariation/#what

1/2 kneeling chop and lift

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfs6u7BPdO0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ovXtY9xqkC8

Bear crawl (much different technique than you’re used to)

http://movement-as-medicine.com/2398-2/

All of them need to be done with good form and progressed properly. Progressive overload is your friend but very slowly (increase reps, then weight dropping reps down, then add more reps I.e. 20lbs x8x3, 20x10x3, 20x12x3, 25x8x3, etc). Keep going though. A lot of people use lifts like this as ancillary and don’t progress them, that’s a mistake. I’ve gotten to where I can do a Pallof press with 70lbs for reps, chops with 65lbs and lifts with 40lbs.


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[kootenayskier]

I’ve been managing back pain all my life. Post major car accident and emergency abdominal surgery in my early 20s, I was crippled. I got all sorts of bad advice (including surgically severing the offending nerves) until I got a few minutes with the chiropractor for a professional sports team, who candidly told me that all treatments were for lazy people, and that I should just work as hard as I can to maintain maximum flexibility and strength, and then just accept whatever imperfection remained. I’m up early, doing my routine, every day, no matter what. I think it’s less important exactly what you do, more that you keep it it up long term. I still see a chiropractor a handful of times a year, to release things I cant quite get to, but I’m in my mid 50s now, and still fully functional and pain free.

[yeahman]

I do these exercises 3 times a day and it has helped me a lot. Also shows some common exercises and stretches NOT to do. Good luck to all, back pain sux.

[neufox47]

One thing to keep in mind too is how the two main portions of your back are supposed to work. Your lower back is supposed to be stable, not hyper mobile, your upper back is supposed to be very flexible. Your body alternates from mobility to stability joints:

Ankles - mobility
Knee - stability
Hip -m
Lower back - s
Upper back m
Neck - S

A ton of people with lower back pain think they need to stretch their lower back, what they actually need is to strengthen it and specifically strengthen its ability to resist rotation.


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