Back issues. Recommendations.

[PNWbrit]

Tried Acupuncture? I found it helped my lower back/ hip issues. And yes YMMV I know.

And PT.... do the fucking PT.

Can't believe you're considering surgery before even giving that a shot.

[4matic]

One thing easy I do that helps: hiking. It takes a least an hour to get the benefit so you are totally warmed up. Concentrate on posture and do some backwards walking up hill. I can still hike when my back is super stiff and sore and it helps.

I just got done swimming. It’s good but turns and kicking can aggravate.

Hike later. 5 miles.

[BCMtnHound]

Lifetime of running through the woods with moderate to light load often, and heavy loads occasionally. Now more behind a desk than out in the woods. Lower back used to be more an issue, now its the center and upper back. Chiro and massage usually do the trick, and a percussion massager like this really helps between (or sometime instead of) treatments.

Know several people with several types of back surgery. Anecdotally, for half it works and half it doesn’t. Best of luck!

And Dan, that LCK vid is priceless!

[::: :::]

46. 6’4” 215lbs

that's me too
i sit for a living, it seems that's what's killing me slowly. (unfortunately, the 90 min drive to the hill is not good for me either (posture problems for tall dudes in vehicles))

i had surgery on my L4-5 13yrs ago -- laminectomy & discectomy
best fucking thing ever...i knew it had worked as soon as i was awake, even through the fog of surgical pain.
that was after a year spent chasing non-surgical solutions (& no fucking mri because they didn't want to pay for it)

this year, i'm battling nerve pain from my C6-7
stopped regular exercise because of it in Feb & stopped skiing at dr's orders in Mar
but i've gotten it to settle down enough to start moving again
tried PT, spinal cortisone injection & am now on Gabapentin
I may yet have surgery this year, but i'm actually more optimistic that I can ride it out just now & do light aerobic work...we'll see

good luck with figuring out the right path for your back issue...i know it's misery while you're in it

[glademaster]

Nothing to contribute personally, but the lady friend had 4 discs in her lower/mid back fused 7 or 8 years ago. I'll chat with her and relay anything of consequence. I know her recovery was very long, and that it took her about a year to get back to something that resembled "normal" but since then it hasn't slowed her down at all. She's an avid mountain biker, surfer, mountaineer, backpacker, etc., so there's another data point for "back surgery isn't the end of the world."

[jackstraw]

My wife had and has L4-L5 issues. I forget which one now blew out, but that one had to have surgery. The was no option according to the surgeon. The other was bulging and they left it alone.

To back up, her initial doctor that she went to several times over the course of 3-4 months told her he couldn't find anything wrong and that all she needed was a vacation. So, she endures the pain for a few more months throughout the summer and finally decides a new doc is needed. We go to Lahey down by Boston (which we should have from the start, but you don't know what you don't know) and the women Dr says this sounds like a classic l4-l5 issue. They get the mri's sent down and tell us they're useless and not even the right angle/spot whatever. Then she (dr) says, 'do you have a lawsuit against this doctor? All you've done is made it worse and that is why the other one is bulging now" It's probably good I'm not a gun guy.

So that was 12 yrs ago. It just reared it's ugly head again 2 weeks ago because she f'd up by raking/weeding in the yard. She can barely move right now and is on muscle relaxers and a steroid. Absolutely sucks. I feel for anyone with back issues. Not fun.

[Cono Este]

Tried Acupuncture? I found it helped my lower back/ hip issues. And yes YMMV I know.

And PT.... do the fucking PT.

Can't believe you're considering surgery before even giving that a shot.

I remember when I had a real job getting an mri on a whim once when I told my doctor how much beer i drank. Now it seems these fuckers want to jump through all the hoops.

I don’t want surgery, but being on the DL is just getting lame. Costing me $$& too.

Swimming 3500 a yards 3-4 times a week should be pretty good PT. And I agree with the tiny muscles comment.

I had a bulging disk in my neck once from too many pull ups and too big of a gut, I learnt how to properly stretch my neck (hands behind your back pulling one arm by the wrist, and dipping your chin in opposite direction) and it works.

Thanks for the all the feedback. I just took my son to camp, sat there all afternoon vs getting out of the car, came home, and the walk from the car was like the Batan death march.


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[Supermoon]

Fucked up my back skiing about 11 years ago, and have had chronic issues since. Herniated my L5/S1 disk and it's show signs of degeneration.

I've done a bunch of different things, but every year or two I'd spend two months totally laid up.

This winter I went to a PT that specialized in back injuries (and was a big skier, which helps), and he gave me some exercises that totally changed my life. They were very small movements designed to activate the small muscles around the spine that had basically atrophied. He said it was common for people like me to just overcompensate with other muscles, but those little ones help with the instability. He also pointed out a couple of stretches I was doing that were inflaming some of the tendons in my lower back.

I was on the verge of looking for surgical options, but this has been great. for me. Backs are so YMMV, but it's something to look into.

[Self Jupiter]

Fucked up my back skiing about 11 years ago, and have had chronic issues since. Herniated my L5/S1 disk and it's show signs of degeneration.

I've done a bunch of different things, but every year or two I'd spend two months totally laid up.

This winter I went to a PT that specialized in back injuries (and was a big skier, which helps), and he gave me some exercises that totally changed my life. They were very small movements designed to activate the small muscles around the spine that had basically atrophied. He said it was common for people like me to just overcompensate with other muscles, but those little ones help with the instability. He also pointed out a couple of stretches I was doing that were inflaming some of the tendons in my lower back.

I was on the verge of looking for surgical options, but this has been great. for me. Backs are so YMMV, but it's something to look into.

Sharing is caring!

[4matic]

Swimming 3500 a yards 3-4 times a week should be pretty good PT.

Open turns or baby your flip turns. That’s a lot of swimming. Be careful.

I get good results from modern breastroke. Not the old school style.

[Meathelmet]

Swimming 3500 a yards 3-4 times a week should be pretty good PT.

Well, there are few things that I would recommend less from personal experience...

Anything that bent my back over straight line, with a leg kick to back was (and to certain extent still is) a no-no for me.

Swimming = Hell, your back is arched like a bow and top of that you have the kick if you are doing front crawl...
XC Trad skiing = Longer kicks and slips are absolutely murder. Skating style is quite ok though.
Soccer = Running is ok, but certain positions with kicking..autch.
Golf = Nope. Not that I have tried that much but seen how it affects.
Hurdles = Nope.
Contact sports = Kick & Punch stuff has been ok, even some randori but when you start to get properly worked on the limits show..

[Meathelmet]

... and he gave me some exercises that totally changed my life.

Sharing is caring!

This.

Spill it!

[Supermoon]

Sharing is caring!

This.

Spill it!

Ok, let me see if I can find the real names of these things, but here are the starters. The gist of it is to do some basic core work, but by tightening your core and your pelvic floor you can isolate those small of back muscles. He specifically avoided things that would engage the big core muscles at first, so I couldn't compensate with those.

Warm up:
Walk for 5 minutes on a treadmill, then three or four passes down the length of the gym each
1) Walking lunge with a 5-10 lb medicine ball. At the low point, slowly twist to both sides, return to center and stand up. As you stand, raise your rear leg in front of you, extend the medicine ball above your head. Hold for a second or two. (Start with just the lunge to balance on one leg with no med ball at first if you need to)

2) Use a theraband or similar around your ankles. Sidestep while holding the medicine ball in front of you. (Great skiing exercise as well! Exclude the med ball if needed)

Core exercises.
1) I'll call these baby leg raises
- Lay on your stomach, and put a small pillow under your waist/stomach area
- Do a kegel (sp?) and tighten your core.
-Raise one leg a few inches off the ground.
-Reset your kegel cause you can't keep it clenched very long and repeat on the other leg.
2 sets of 10 per leg, twice per day

2) Supermans? Hunting dog?
- Get on all fours with a flat back
- Flex your abs and do a kegel again
- Extend your right arm and left leg out. Hold for a couple of seconds, then return.
- Do the other side.
2 sets of 10 per leg, twice per day
As you progress, add 2 lb weights to your hands.

3) Leg drops
- lay on your back
- tighten your core (my PT used an inflatable cushion attached to a pressure gauge to make sure I had the right amount of space between by lower back and the table, but I found if I do a 50-60% core tightening it gets me in the ballpark)
-raise both legs so your knees are at a 90 degree angle and your shins are parallel to the floor.
-Slowly lower one leg until your toe taps the ground. Keep your core tight and the same amount of space between your lower back and the table throughout.
- Raise your leg up, keeping the space again
-Repeat
2 sets of 10 per leg, twice per day

4) Bridge + leg extension
- Lay on your back
-Bridge up
- Tighten your core (I don't think you do a kegel here, but try it out!)
- Extend one leg in front of you, hold for a couple seconds, return the leg
- Repeat
2 sets of 10 per leg, twice per day

5) Girly side plank
- Side plank from your knees (especially at first)
- Extend your top leg straight and do 15-20 side raises with that leg.
-Switch sides and repeat
2 sets 2x per day

6) Balance drill
- Use a cable station and set a cable at chest level with about 5-10 pounds on it (theraband works for home use)
- Hold the cable in front of you, so you and the cable are parallel. (You'll be side on to the cable station probably)
- Stand on your leg furthest from the cable station
- Do 10-15 reps of pushing the cable handle away from your body, all while on one leg.
- Swap sides and repeat
2 reps 2x per day

That's pretty much it. When I was really bad initially, he only had me do the leg drops, balance drill and the tiny leg lifts, then progressed into that set of exercises over a couple of weeks. Now I can do some of the bridges and planks on an exercise ball.

For stretching he had me stop doing any stretches that twisted my back. So I cut back to just straight leg hamstring stretches, groin and hip flexor stretches, quad, calf, etc. There are apparently some tendons in my back that were really inflamed from being over stretched due to the twisting stretches I was doing.

Anyway, those helped me. They seem super small and simple, but I was sore in places I didn't even realize had muscles the first few times I tried it.

[4matic]

Swimming = Hell, your back is arched like a bow and top of that you have the kick if you are doing front crawl...

Agree, but, modern swimming is very neutral balance. If you slow crawl stroke way down and focus on alignment (streamlining) it is almost weightless.

Just cranking laps is not great

[old goat]

IMO you should see a good physiatrist (non-surgical back guy). If you're down for several days a month I would guess that might indicate surgery, but maybe there are other things you could do. My understanding (you probably already know this) is you want to avoid back surgery if at all possible, which is why a physiatrist could be a good call (too many back surgeons do too many surgeries, from what I've heard, and a lot of back surgeries don't end up helping).

This ^^^^. Also called PM and R (physical medicine and rehab). These are MD's, not physical therapists. Different back problems have different solutions so you can't really go by what someone who's had back surgery says.. You need a more precise diagnosis, some guidance on what kind of PT to do--it varies depending on the cause of the back problem--and if you do need surgery they can refer you to someone good. Personally I would lean towards a neurosurgical back surgeon as opposed to an orthopedist--observing both in the OR the neurosurgeons seem a lot more careful to me. Of course, it depends on the individual surgeon. It is often said that back surgery relieves the pain, numbness and weakness down the leg but not the back pain. I don't know if that's true, especially with some of the newer operations.

I'm wrestling with the same issues you are. I've had some steroid injections which I think helped but it's hard to be sure because my back gets better and worse on its own. Every time I think this is it, I'm going to get referred to a surgeon, it gets better on its own for a while. In my case it's spinal stenosis, not just disc disease.

[XXX-er]

I have a goof PT clinic & a good yoga studio ... wonderful women taking care of me

[Self Jupiter]

Ok, let me see if I can find the real names of these things, but here are the starters. The gist of it is to do some basic core work, but by tightening your core and your pelvic floor you can isolate those small of back muscles. He specifically avoided things that would engage the big core muscles at first, so I couldn't compensate with those.

Warm up:
Walk for 5 minutes on a treadmill, then three or four passes down the length of the gym each
1) Walking lunge with a 5-10 lb medicine ball. At the low point, slowly twist to both sides, return to center and stand up. As you stand, raise your rear leg in front of you, extend the medicine ball above your head. Hold for a second or two. (Start with just the lunge to balance on one leg with no med ball at first if you need to)

2) Use a theraband or similar around your ankles. Sidestep while holding the medicine ball in front of you. (Great skiing exercise as well! Exclude the med ball if needed)

Core exercises.
1) I'll call these baby leg raises
- Lay on your stomach, and put a small pillow under your waist/stomach area
- Do a kegel (sp?) and tighten your core.
-Raise one leg a few inches off the ground.
-Reset your kegel cause you can't keep it clenched very long and repeat on the other leg.
2 sets of 10 per leg, twice per day

2) Supermans? Hunting dog?
- Get on all fours with a flat back
- Flex your abs and do a kegel again
- Extend your right arm and left leg out. Hold for a couple of seconds, then return.
- Do the other side.
2 sets of 10 per leg, twice per day
As you progress, add 2 lb weights to your hands.

3) Leg drops
- lay on your back
- tighten your core (my PT used an inflatable cushion attached to a pressure gauge to make sure I had the right amount of space between by lower back and the table, but I found if I do a 50-60% core tightening it gets me in the ballpark)
-raise both legs so your knees are at a 90 degree angle and your shins are parallel to the floor.
-Slowly lower one leg until your toe taps the ground. Keep your core tight and the same amount of space between your lower back and the table throughout.
- Raise your leg up, keeping the space again
-Repeat
2 sets of 10 per leg, twice per day

4) Bridge + leg extension
- Lay on your back
-Bridge up
- Tighten your core (I don't think you do a kegel here, but try it out!)
- Extend one leg in front of you, hold for a couple seconds, return the leg
- Repeat
2 sets of 10 per leg, twice per day

5) Girly side plank
- Side plank from your knees (especially at first)
- Extend your top leg straight and do 15-20 side raises with that leg.
-Switch sides and repeat
2 sets 2x per day

6) Balance drill
- Use a cable station and set a cable at chest level with about 5-10 pounds on it (theraband works for home use)
- Hold the cable in front of you, so you and the cable are parallel. (You'll be side on to the cable station probably)
- Stand on your leg furthest from the cable station
- Do 10-15 reps of pushing the cable handle away from your body, all while on one leg.
- Swap sides and repeat
2 reps 2x per day

That's pretty much it. When I was really bad initially, he only had me do the leg drops, balance drill and the tiny leg lifts, then progressed into that set of exercises over a couple of weeks. Now I can do some of the bridges and planks on an exercise ball.

For stretching he had me stop doing any stretches that twisted my back. So I cut back to just straight leg hamstring stretches, groin and hip flexor stretches, quad, calf, etc. There are apparently some tendons in my back that were really inflamed from being over stretched due to the twisting stretches I was doing.

Anyway, those helped me. They seem super small and simple, but I was sore in places I didn't even realize had muscles the first few times I tried it.

Thank you.

Curious if you stretch the rest of your hips when you’re not acute? Particular attention to hip mobility/flexibility/pliability has proven to be an important part of my ongoing management of the issue.

[Supermoon]

Thank you.

Curious if you stretch the rest of your hips when you’re not acute? Particular attention to hip mobility/flexibility/pliability has proven to be an important part of my ongoing management of the issue.

I swear by this video for hip mobility. Such a good use of time.

https://youtu.be/FSSDLDhbacc

Otherwise I spend a lot of time on my hip flexors. If I sit too much they get tight and I feel it in my back.

[old goat]

One thing easy I do that helps: hiking. It takes a least an hour to get the benefit so you are totally warmed up. Concentrate on posture and do some backwards walking up hill. I can still hike when my back is super stiff and sore and it helps.

I just got done swimming. It’s good but turns and kicking can aggravate.

Hike later. 5 miles.

I've found the same thing about hiking. I can't swim--with spinal stenosis anything that increases the lumbar lordosis--the inward curve of the lower spine--makes it worse, and swimming does that. Backstroke might be ok, I haven't tried. Tilting forward helps--that's why cycling is possible for people who can't do anything else. Skiing fortunately puts my spine and pelvis in a good position; skiing with a pack even better. I can comfortable carry a fair amount of weight on my back but carrying even 10 pounds in front of me is painful. All of this applies to spinal stenosis and not necessarily to any other kind of back problem.

[XXX-er]

Ok, let me see if I can find the real names of these things, but here are the starters. The gist of it is to do some basic core work, but by tightening your core and your pelvic floor you can isolate those small of back muscles..

I was talking to my PT a young woman and I told her when I pulled my balls up into my body ... it was a game changer

she replied " um yes we call that engaging the pelvic floor "

[Cono Este]

I have a goof PT clinic & a good yoga studio ... wonderful women taking care of me

This sounds good in many ways. Pics.


I’m gathering my records to see a pain management guy. Guys kid played baseball with my son so I know the guy. At least he’ll tell me the truth. Probably need pt cause Cigna sucks balls, but I need to start building the case for shots.

I started lifting lightly again recently, and I think the “little” muscles get imbalanced with the larger muscles when your doing rows etc. Developing one not in proportion to the others.




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[old goat]

One thing about mri's--generally speaking insurance companies will only approve and most docs wouldn't order anyways--for back pain alone. They want to see some numbness, weakness, and/or pain radiating down the leg(s). And generally speaking no one is going to recommend surgery for back pain alone.

[Cono Este]

Thanks again everyone. I was paralyzed this morning and went to the ER. The Doc was like “you drove here”? At least I got top shelf drugs and some fresh X-rays so the pain doctor will grace me with his presence.



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[Self Jupiter]

Sounds awful man. Vibes.

[Supermoon]

Yikes. Hope things work out Cono!