Title 9 is dead

[TheSilverSurfer]

How would this work, though? At the highest level it would be all those who were born male. No woman would ever win an Olympic medal again.

Medal for each category? Cis Male, trans male, etc...

[The AD]

Medal for each category? Cis Male, trans male, etc...

You could do that, but it would certainly de-value the medals a bit. How many world caliber trans lugers--for example--are there really going to be? Do you really deserve an Olympic gold medal because you're the only trans luger in the world?

My opinion would be that if you decide to change your sex through surgery and/or drugs you have to accept that your life is going to change radically. Part of that change may be that you can no longer participate in athletics at certain levels because it's unfair to the other competitors.

[frorider]

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a4454...sgender-women/

…goes into many aspects of this topic.

[smartyiak]

I was unaware/surprised that there are male/female divisions in chess? Is this actually an issue? What’s the logic?

I get “athletics,” but why would any of the arguments matter in chess?


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[Core Shot]

I was unaware/surprised that there are male/female divisions in chess? Is this actually an issue? What’s the logic?

I get “athletics,” but why would any of the arguments matter in chess?


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

That’s what fried my brain.
Why women’s chess?

It’s not physical. It’s all mental. I thought chess was chess.

[SumJongGuy]

Imagine the rage to come about trans women kindergarten teachers..

[Trackhead]

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a4454...sgender-women/

…goes into many aspects of this topic.

Bravo to UCI, the topic of advantage can not be simplified to a testosterone lab value.

Plenty of research citing continued benefit of anabolic steroids after discontinuation of use. Going through puberty with functioning Leydig cells is a huge anabolic advantage that is clinical and scientific fact.

I agree with old goat, life isn’t always fair. We are bending rules for what, 0.25% of athletes so the rest suffer?

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I find it funny how everyone spends so much time worrying about that 0.25% of athletes, all competing in sports they will never, ever care about.

[Rasputin]

As everything it depends on the parameters used, hence why I added "considering all factors". The 1.3-1.7% figure is specifically attributed to "physically identifiable traits".

However, on the topic of transgender athletes, intersex is a bit of a red herring. Again, from Amnesty International:

Myth 4: Intersex people are transgender.

Being intersex has nothing to do with being transgender.

[californiagrown]

However, on the topic of transgender athletes, intersex is a bit of a red herring. Again, from Amnesty International:

Myth 4: Intersex people are transgender.

Being intersex has nothing to do with being transgender.

This discussion actually affects only half of trans folks. No one is trying to stop trans men from competing with men, lol. This issue only exists for trans women. That's it.

[Cisco Kid]

My 13 y o grand daughter is playing tight end for the HS FB team this year at 5'9 160lbs. When I played JV O line TE as a starter I was 5' 5' 120lbs. Is that fair? Should anyone care?

Interesting data above. 65,000 babies born each year with parts that don't match their chromosomes. Hence the speck of truth that the religious far right conspiracy mongers use saying that doctors are cutting off the penis of little boys. Yup. So what?

[SumJongGuy]

Bravo to UCI, the topic of advantage can not be simplified to a testosterone lab value.

Plenty of research citing continued benefit of anabolic steroids after discontinuation of use. Going through puberty with functioning Leydig cells is a huge anabolic advantage that is clinical and scientific fact.

I agree with old goat, life isn’t always fair. We are bending rules for what, 0.000025% of athletes so the rest suffer?

Fixed it for you. We're getting outraged over latest count in my state 3 in 200K student athletes grade 6-12

Looks like SIX in the entire state of Ohio..

How many transgender high school athletes are there in Ohio?
The OHSAA reports only six transgender students are currently playing on girls' sports teams in Ohio's high schools. Rep. Mary Lightbody (D-New Albany) asked about legal implications of this legislation and how this bill affects Title IX protections. Powell responded it complies with the federal civil rights law.Mar 8, 2023
Even counting just girls teams your number is massively inflated..

You numbers are massively inflated just like the rage over a huge nothing burger.. A solution looking for a problem. Is it fair? Probably not.. But is it a significant problem yet? Also probably not..

Also you don't get to pad the numbers by 50% by only including girls sports. There are also biological females playing men's sports.. Wrestling, football, baseball.. Nobody seems to have a problem with that.. unless they're trans...

[The AD]

That’s what fried my brain.
Why women’s chess?

It’s not physical. It’s all mental. I thought chess was chess.

I imagine there are just a lot more men playing chess at a high level than women. Not sure why. Probably comes down to men tend to be more competitive, and/or feel the need to waste their time on things like chess and sports.

[old goat]

I imagine there are just a lot more men playing chess at a high level than women. Not sure why. Probably comes down to men tend to be more competitive, and/or feel the need to waste their time on things like chess and sports.

After watching the WC I have to disagree with the less competitive thing.

[Trackhead]

Fixed it for you. We're getting outraged over latest count in my state 3 in 200K student athletes grade 6-12

Looks like SIX in the entire state of Ohio..



You numbers are massively inflated just like the rage over a huge nothing burger.. A solution looking for a problem. Is it fair? Probably not.. But is it a significant problem yet? Also probably not..

Also you don't get to pad the numbers by 50% by only including girls sports. There are also biological females playing men's sports.. Wrestling, football, baseball.. Nobody seems to have a problem with that.. unless they're trans...

I was guessing on the number, I suck at math, bravo to you.

It’s a big enough concern that the UCI, World Athletics had to address it as well as other international athletic associations. No need to get enraged at me.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Trans women have never been shown to disproportionately successful in any sport.

The studies I've seen that show they have a physical advantage over cis women have been conducted on untrained college students. This means the studies are pretty much meaningless. At least one study comparing trans and cis women athletes showed no statistically significant advantage. Why does this make sense? Athletes aren't average. Trans youth make up a bit more than 1% of the population and most of them don't want to deal with the bullying and harassment they'll face if they play sports. So you're looking at a very small group competing against the best women. This is why trans women don't dominate any sport. Yet when a trans woman wins anything d-bags like some of you all scream about it to the hilltops as proof that women's sports are dying.

Be honest with yourselves. You want to ban trans women because you don't think they are women. Congrats on joining forces with the White nationalists and helping to make America great again.

[skiJ]

Trans women have never been shown to disproportionately successful in any sport.

The studies I've seen that show they have a physical advantage over cis women have been conducted on untrained college students. This means the studies are pretty much meaningless. At least one study comparing trans and cis women athletes showed no statistically significant advantage. Why does this make sense? Athletes aren't average. Trans youth make up a bit more than 1% of the population and most of them don't want to deal with the bullying and harassment they'll face if they play sports. So you're looking at a very small group competing against the best women. This is why trans women don't dominate any sport. Yet when a trans woman wins anything d-bags like some of you all scream about it to the hilltops as proof that women's sports are dying.

Be honest with yourselves. You want to ban trans women because you don't think they are women. Congrats on joining forces with the White nationalists and helping to make America great again.

no. Just no.

skiJ

[jono]

I was guessing on the number, I suck at math, bravo to you.

I expect 99% of trans-mathletes would embarrass you both and then be sad that their beloved numbers were dragged into it in the first place.

[old goat]

Trans women have never been shown to disproportionately successful in any sport.

The studies I've seen that show they have a physical advantage over cis women have been conducted on untrained college students. This means the studies are pretty much meaningless. At least one study comparing trans and cis women athletes showed no statistically significant advantage. Why does this make sense? Athletes aren't average. Trans youth make up a bit more than 1% of the population and most of them don't want to deal with the bullying and harassment they'll face if they play sports. So you're looking at a very small group competing against the best women. This is why trans women don't dominate any sport. Yet when a trans woman wins anything d-bags like some of you all scream about it to the hilltops as proof that women's sports are dying.

Be honest with yourselves. You want to ban trans women because you don't think they are women. Congrats on joining forces with the White nationalists and helping to make America great again.

This is a bullshit response about an issue that well meaning people who support trans rights take different positions on. Why stop at White nationalists? Don't you mean Nazis? Isn't banning trans women from women's sports like the Holocaust?

And yes, in the overall scheme of things it's a minor issues but it is an important issue to the athletes involved. And so deserves a thoughtful response, not a predetermined response based on ideology.

[Trackhead]

And so deserves a thoughtful response, not a predetermined response based on ideology.

This is TGR, ideology is implicit, as are broad accusations. Nobody posts here expecting a thoughtful, engaging, civil discussion.

Maybe we all need some estrogen HRT, although most here are old enough that their testosterone producing Leydig cells are becoming dysfunctional and the little testosterone they do produce is rapidly converted to estrogen by aromatase creating large, puffy, gynecomastia boobies we can all snuggle in.

[skiJ]

This is a bullshit response about an issue that well meaning people who support trans rights take different positions on. Why stop at White nationalists? Don't you mean Nazis? Isn't banning trans women from women's sports like the Holocaust?

And yes, in the overall scheme of things it's a minor issues but it is an important issue to the athletes involved. And so deserves a thoughtful response, not a predetermined response based on ideology.

while I appreciate this goat,
I still strongly discourage comparing anything to the upheaval in the world in the 1930s and 1940s -

regarding gender and sports , about my only interest(s) are < that there is no competitive advantage ; and
that the rules are followed.

Today, I think if someone wants to call themself a woman or a man, ,,, I believe as a species we have bigger problems to worry about -

( for someone to say others don't believe "trans women' are 'women" ,,, is just junk -

let the 'trans women' compete with other 'trans women' -

End of story. )

[SumJongGuy]

A man altering their body to be more feminine is no different than a woman altering her body to be more feminine. Either you belive you must roll with the body you were born with or you don't. Fake tits are fake tits.. Doesn't matter what's below them.. .. Also doesn't matter what used to be below them.. Either be OK with changing a body or don't be.. No saying it's OK for X but not for Y.

[The AD]

And yes, in the overall scheme of things it's a minor issues but it is an important issue to the athletes involved. And so deserves a thoughtful response, not a predetermined response based on ideology.

Agreed. Sports need to be fair. That's the issue here. I'm absolutely sure there are plenty of people who don't want to see trans athletes participating just because they think it's "unnatural" or some other BS reason, but that's far from the only consideration. Women have fought very hard for a place in the sports world and athletes who participated at a high level as men just a year or two previously is simply not fair to the cis-female competitors.

[Conundrum]

although most here are old enough that their testosterone producing Leydig cells are becoming dysfunctional and the little testosterone they do produce is rapidly converted to estrogen by aromatase creating large, puffy, gynecomastia boobies we can all snuggle in.

So the padded room as we know it is fucked and saved all at the same time?

[old goat]

This is TGR, ideology is implicit, as are broad accusations. Nobody posts here expecting a thoughtful, engaging, civil discussion.

Maybe we all need some estrogen HRT, although most here are old enough that their testosterone producing Leydig cells are becoming dysfunctional and the little testosterone they do produce is rapidly converted to estrogen by aromatase creating large, puffy, gynecomastia boobies we can all snuggle in.

Wait--you say TGR is no place for a thoughtful discussion and then you hit us with SCIENCE? WTF? (Remind me what a Leydig cell is. It's been a while.)