Why all the suicides if everything is going so well in Murica?

[DBdude]

yeah she would be, she looks remarkably like a tranny

[Meadow Skipper]

medicare and medicaid are insurance programs paid from payroll taxes. medicare is at the federal level for retirees and medicaid is paid for at the state level with funding from the federal level. these insurance programs are funded by payroll taxes and the feds and each state set reimbursement rates. the reimbursement rates set by the feds and the states don't reflect true costs of health care in this country and people with private health care are covering the difference

So...taxes. Sounds like socialism.

the problem in this country isn't health insurance, it's that health care costs are too high. i am a part of that problem. I make a very good living in healthcare as do many other people. the simple fact is that costs need to come down. the easiest way for that to happen is people in health care need to make less money

I would have pointed to insurance companies, big pharma and private hospitals.

[wyeaster]

I am a part of that problem. I make a very good living in healthcare as do many other people. the simple fact is that costs need to come down. the easiest way for that to happen is people in health care need to make less money

i don't get it. you get paid to be part of anger management studies? it's like donating blood for you i bet! ka-ching!

sadly, they won't take my blood after the unfortunate hep c joke.

[DBdude]

it depends on the insurance company. some have really high admin costs. medicare has incredibly low admin cost and a high fraud rate

yes we subsidize drug development for the whole world. it would be nice if that changed. still pills are the cheapest way to treat healthcare issues

most hospitals are not for profits.

[::: :::]

most hospitals are not for profits.

[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]



(Sigh)
Thanks for that!

[DBdude]

my understanding of the business is that 20% of hospitals in the US are for profit entities. what have you got

I am pretty sure in the state I live in there are no for profit hospitals

second, the business is going through consolidation, lots of hospitals are closing or merging. low income low population density areas are facing a healthcare crisis

[farmer]

you are a fucking idiot. i work in health care. it is not socialized. it should be. health care is a human right

the best thing to happen to you would be to financially ruined by a catastrophic health issue

Here is the problem with health care being a human right.

When I exercise any other human right (free speech, guilty until proven innocent, freedom from opression, etc), it does not require the labor of others. It only requires that the government stay out of my way.

If healthcare becomes a right, the labor of doctors is no longer their own. They become slaves to anyone who claims the right to their labor.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using TGR Forums mobile app

[DBdude]

no, it requires the governed to pay. look up Rousseau's social contract

[::: :::]

my understanding of the business is that 20% of hospitals in the US are for profit entities. what have you got

I am pretty sure in the state I live in there are no for profit hospitals

second, the business is going through consolidation, lots of hospitals are closing or merging. low income low population density areas are facing a healthcare crisis

Not for profit may be their TAX STATUS, but that does not mean that they aren’t gouging at each level of the billing cycle.

Many own multiple businesses within the medical realm:
Equipment leasing (institutional & patient)
Materials handling
Administration
Prescriptions
Billing
Real estate/leasing
Medical insurance
Supplemental insurance
Service providers (the actual hospitals)
Food service
Etc

Each division is a separate business under the umbrella. And the larger ownership group gets a cut at every level

[XXX-er]

Here is the problem with health care being a human right.

When I exercise any other human right (free speech, guilty until proven innocent, freedom from opression, etc), it does not require the labor of others. It only requires that the government stay out of my way.

If healthcare becomes a right, the labor of doctors is no longer their own. They become slaves to anyone who claims the right to their labor.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using TGR Forums mobile app

yeah last time they shoved a scope up my ass (for free btw) I stayed awake long enough to notice all the canadian doctors were wearing shackles in the OR

up here we actualy call it "universal health care" but being canadian you should know that, instead you always act like you have never said eh before

which means even that really fat cracker gets taken care of

[wyeaster]

Here is the problem with health care being a human right.

When I exercise any other human right (free speech, guilty until proven innocent, freedom from opression, etc), it does not require the labor of others. It only requires that the government stay out of my way.

If healthcare becomes a right, the labor of doctors is no longer their own. They become slaves to anyone who claims the right to their labor.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using TGR Forums mobile app

down with doctor slavery!!!

[DBdude]

dude, most hospitals are just getting by. yes i understand what not for profit means. but again, the hospitals that I have an inside look at are scrambling to stay afloat. the bigger the hospital the less this is an issue.

[DBdude]

yeah last time they shoved a scope up my ass (for free btw) I stayed awake long enough to notice all the canadian doctors were wearing shackles in the OR

up here we actualy call it "universal health care" but being canadian you should know that, instead you always act like you have never said eh before

which means even that really fat cracker gets taken care of

farmer is probably in alberta

[wyeaster]

i bet they do genetic and intelligence testing and steal babies from their families and send them to the doctor farm to get started with training and a doping regimen.

[DBdude]

yeah, no... alberta has low reimbursement rates and issues with nursing union(s) and health care providers leaving the province

[XXX-er]

My ex wife was an emerg admitting clerk 12 km from the border in the largest indo-canadian muni in Canada, nobody got refused service even tho it was obvious they were from either America or India, it's all the same in every province or territory ... that's what universal means

Even for really smart Americans it's like whoosh right over their heads ... It does not compute

I'm pretty sure farmer has been living in America for some time with an Hc plan paid for by an employer and is in awe of your system

[AdironRider]

I would love to see the statistics where all these medical treatments provided by universal health care were funded and developed.

All the arguments I've seen against single payer that aren't just Dem or Repub talking points revolve around those, in the notion that a lot of universal health care systems don't provide the R&D funding that our system, however flawed, provides.

While I'm not with farmer in that it would be basically slavery, anyone who thinks Doctors wont be told who/what proceedures to perform and how much they will be paid is delusional.

[4matic]

I would love to see the statistics where all these medical treatments provided by universal health care were funded and developed.

Medical school? What are you talking about? Pharma or private hospitals?

It's not working fwiw unless you are a CEO:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ife_expectancy

[Mazderati]

While I'm not with farmer in that it would be basically slavery, anyone who thinks Doctors wont be told who/what proceedures to perform and how much they will be paid is delusional.

[AdironRider]

Lets stick to actual facts and not Michael Moore anecdotal bullshit.

You don't think a single payer system isn't going to try and call the shots on what a given procedure will pay out? Have you seen what Medicaid pays out compared to Blue Cross (or insert your regional insurance co)? It is literally one of the liberal arguments for the benefits of single payer.

And to that effect, single payer is great! But if I was a doctor, I wouldn't be stoked. Especially after taking on a decade plus of schooling, massive liability insurance and student loan payments. That all costs money.

Our country can't even operate the VA....

[old goat]

While I'm not with farmer in that it would be basically slavery, anyone who thinks Doctors wont be told who/what proceedures to perform and how much they will be paid is delusional.

Doctors screamed socialism when medicare and medicaid were first proposed. What happened? Doctors got rich. Now doctors scream that medicare and medicaid don't pay enough and are burdensome, forgetting (most are too young to know) what it was like before those programs, when all the stuff they are being underpaid for now they were doing for free back then. The same thing will happen with single payer.

It isn't necessary for the govt to tell doctors what procedures they can or cannot do. Eliminate fee-for-service, put doctors on a salary in large groups like Kaiser Permanente, and let practice guidelines be promulgated by the specialty societies and enforced by the medical groups themselves. As a KP physician that system worked very well for me--the only restrictions I encountered were a few sensible ones on the use of antibiotcs. I didn't have the stress of trying to run a business and I did fine financially--probably better than the system can sustain.

Paying for it is the problem. Compared to other countries we spend enormous amounts on defense to keep ourselves safe from external threats. Meanwhile we're killing ourselves from within--suicide, homicide, decreasing life span, maternal mortality, obesity. What we're doing to ourselves is far more dangerous than what North Korea or Iran or Russia or China is going to do to us.

[DBdude]

we spend enormous amounts on healthcare

[BeardMech]

Ive had Medicaid before, and it was great for the most part. I still was able to get all my medical care at Duke or UW (multiple specialists), but getting drugs covered can be hard. In NC I could get lyrica covered with just a 3 dollar co pay, in WA they will not pay for a cent of it even after trying for over a year.

[AdironRider]

Doctors screamed socialism when medicare and medicaid were first proposed. What happened? Doctors got rich. Now doctors scream that medicare and medicaid don't pay enough and are burdensome, forgetting (most are too young to know) what it was like before those programs, when all the stuff they are being underpaid for now they were doing for free back then. The same thing will happen with single payer.

It isn't necessary for the govt to tell doctors what procedures they can or cannot do. Eliminate fee-for-service, put doctors on a salary in large groups like Kaiser Permanente, and let practice guidelines be promulgated by the specialty societies and enforced by the medical groups themselves. As a KP physician that system worked very well for me--the only restrictions I encountered were a few sensible ones on the use of antibiotcs. I didn't have the stress of trying to run a business and I did fine financially--probably better than the system can sustain.

Paying for it is the problem. Compared to other countries we spend enormous amounts on defense to keep ourselves safe from external threats. Meanwhile we're killing ourselves from within--suicide, homicide, decreasing life span, maternal mortality, obesity. What we're doing to ourselves is far more dangerous than what North Korea or Iran or Russia or China is going to do to us.

Shit man, if I were to bet money on it, I'd say Trump is probably the most likely to get America out of the world police game, compared to Hillary, Obama, or anyone else who came before. He'd still throw cash at the troops though. Fiscal responsibility is not his bag.

The Charlie Gard and other sad cases from across the pond though pretty much throw your "government doesnt need to tell doctors what to do" argument out the window. The Gard case in particular is pretty fucked up. The government deemed that child needed to die.

[Mazderati]

Edit: Nevermind. Adiron is a proven dipshit.