Suggestions for replacing our new Subaru Outback with something not so fragile

[Red7]

We bought a 2017 Subaru Outback 11 months ago thinking it would be the perfect car for our active lifestyles. We knew it wasn't a heavy duty SUV when we bought it but we made the wrong assumption (based upon all of the marketing photos with them loaded up with bikes, ski boxes, kayaks, etc) that it was comparable to our Lexus RX which is also on a softer, car chassis. Our Subaru makes our Lexus seem like a Toyota Sequoia in comparison. I know tons of people love their Subarus so people may get upset by this post but ours has just been so frustrating for us that we've decided we will take the huge loss and put it up for sale. I just got the call from the 2nd Subaru dealer saying there is nothing wrong with the suspension in spite of all of our problems.

Let me rewind and give you the back story. We split our time between Florida and the NC mountains so we rarely need AWD but we knew this year we were going to start taking 8 week ski trips each winter so we thought the Outback would be the perfect car for those trips and then the 3-4 days a week that we are either MTBing, kayaking or whatever. The car (I will never use the term SUV or crossover for the Outback again) did fine around WNC and even did fine on the drive out to Colorado. After 6 weeks out there, we had the tires rotated at the Silverthorne Subie dealer and they said all 4 tires had even wear and they had half of their life left (at 18,000 miles). The car did fine getting us to the slopes the 50ish days we drove up so props to their great AWD system! We've had a list of frustrations with the car including twice running out of gas on the highway with the computer telling us we had 70 miles left but that's not the point of this post so I won't nit pick the smaller things that drove us nuts.

On the way home we started driving back, fairly loaded up but with the exact same gear as our trip out West and when we were filling up in St Louis I checked the air pressure on the tires and noticed that the rear tires seemed to be wearing faster than the front. By Atlanta the rear tires were wearing fast enough that I was concerned if they'd make it home. Thankfully we did as it was pouring rain and the car felt like the struts were worn out. Yes, we should have stopped and found a dealer but after crossing the country with 2 kids, we just wanted to get home. The next day I took it to the closest dealer and they couldn't believe how different the front and rear tires were so they put it on the alignment rack and to their surprise the alignment wasn't perfect, but good. They checked all suspension components and said that nothing was wrong. Not thinking the problem was solved, we begrudgingly put 4 brand new tires on it and had it aligned but the car still feels like the rear struts are blown out when we hit a bump at highway speeds with 4 people in the car (my kids are 9 and 13). I raced motocross for years and am very sensitive to suspensions setup and when this car hits a bump the rear end chatters back and forth to where my wife hates driving the car as she's over corrected to where it was squirrley to say the least.. It's her car and she's put less than 200 miles on it the past 3 months and only uses it around town. Tired of making payments on a car we hardly use I decided to take it to a different dealer to have it checked out. They drove it today and he said he felt a little of what we feel but he said, "that's normal and yours feels better than some of them on our lot". They checked out the struts and suspension components and said everything looks fine and then they put it on their rack and said the alignment was off so they did another alignment (after 200 miles). I don't know whose machine is off or if anything changed but I'm just up in arms over this not all that cheap, new car.

Again, I understand a lot of owners love their Subarus and maybe I just got a lemon but I don't know what to do because 2 Subaru dealers are telling me everything looks fine and they have no idea why my car is eating rear tires. I never buy new cars but figured this would be the one we keep for 20 years and pass it down to the kids so thought we were making a good decision at the time. But I just don't trust the suspension on this vehicle, especially for trips back and forth between our 2 homes where we have a couple suitcases in back, so we decided tonight that we will take the hit and sell it while the new tires still look good.

So, all that to say, what would be a good SUV that is similar in size or slightly larger, that is still really good on our annual ski pilgrimage, but that is heavier duty to where it can at least carry 4 passengers and their gear on a road trip without throwing the alignment completely off. With no one in the car, 4 bikes on a Kuat rack will cause the rear end to squat so it's clear that this car is just a little too under-sprung for our active family. We don't need a Suburban or Sequoia but is there something out there that is medium sized but still gets decent mileage without being so fragile? Before buying the Outback we were fairly set on an Infiniti QX60 but the AWD supposedly isn't as good. The Acura MDX is supposed to have a really good AWD but the Subaru evidently has the best which was what pushed us that direction. I had a 4 Runner in college and thought about going that route but we were trying to be frugal with the Subaru and it bit us in the you know what. What is the perfect combo of ruggedness, MPG, great out of the snow for 9-10 months of the year and then great in the snow for the ski trip? I apologize in advance for ruffling any Subaru owner's feathers and I understand these are great cars for some people or there wouldn't be so many on the road. In researching this issue I have come across a number of long time Subaru owners who are a little less stoked with the progressive loss of ruggedness in subsequent generations. Subaru isn't stupid and they realize the majority of the owners just want a really soft riding grocery-getter that still excels in the snow and it does that well. Heck, if I lived in Denver and just bee-lined it up I70 with not much gear in the car, it could maybe work, but I just need a little more beef in our outdoor play vehicle so it can handle road trips. Recommendations? Thanks!

PS- I've never been in the position of having to sell a brand new car that we just paid sales tax, 100,000 mile extended warranty, etc. What is the best way to cut our losses on this one? Trade it in so that the sales tax carries over or sell it outright and then buy something else? I got a loan on it because the interest rate was so low but can you even work a deal with a private party if they need a loan and their bank has to pay off your loan? Or should I just pay it off now before listing it for sale? It really sucks but this is the first car I've owned that is going to feel so good to get rid of! The only question is how much are we going to lose.

[adrenalated]

I got a loan on it because the interest rate was so low but can you even work a deal with a private party if they need a loan and their bank has to pay off your loan? Or should I just pay it off now before listing it for sale?

I bought my truck with a loan through my credit union, from a private party seller that had a loan on the vehicle. My bank took care of everything. It was a non-issue. You don't need to pay it off before listing it for sale.

[Red7]

Also, with most car companies focusing more on ride quality than capability, how do you figure out how a car will perform under load? I feel like an idiot for not doing more research before buying the Subaru but it never crossed my mind that 4 bikes on a rack would overload the rear suspension. Moving forward, is using tongue weight and towing capacity reasonable for figuring out how a vehicle can handle a load? Our Lexus for instance isn't very beefy with 350/3500 limits but for some reason loading up that SUV doesn't throw off the alignment. It's a catch 22 because I don't want something that is a huge gas guzzler but I don't want to be too frugal (read: cheap) worrying so much about mpg that we end up in the same boat. Thanks!

[Red7]

Thanks, that makes it easier! Are you in a state where you hold the title even though there was a loan or did the bank have the title? I'd be a little nervous as a buyer if someone didn't have the title in hand but I guess if it's all going thru the bank then it's ok.

[bodywhomper]

I want to take 8 week long ski trip with my family!

Have you considered awd Toyota Sienna? Seriously....

[ill-advised strategy]

any newer 4 door pickup with the smaller engines? 2.7 ford....4 cyl toyota...etc

[Sirshredalot]

I want to take 8 week long ski trip with my family!

Have you considered awd Toyota Sienna? Seriously....

I have an Outback and two kids and am prone to AWD Sienna jealousy. MPGs are a step down from the current-gen Outback, but it haul a bunch of shit oh-so-well.

I had a CX5 and it drove better than our Outback and got better MPG, but the cargo area is shorter.

[Harry]

Owns 2 houses and takes 8-week ski trips, but cannot figure out how auto loans work ?

BTW: my Outback has 170,000 miles and runs fine.

[PB]

Wait .... you tossed an RX for an Outback?!?!?!?

Too many words in your sympathy plea, so not bothering with specifics -

suck it up buttercup, and move on.

[yeahman]

Toyota Highlander might fit your needs if you can afford one. Friend just bought a 2015 and loves it. Won't shut up about it in fact. He's got multiple bikes on the rear rack. Tows his raft with it too. I think it has a 5000 towing capacity. 24 MPG.

My old '98 Outback was a trooper, 250,000 miles when we sold it. Great AWD performance.

[Doremite]

Owns 2 houses and takes 8-week ski trips, but cannot figure out how auto loans work ?

BTW: my Outback has 170,000 miles and runs fine.

I laughed.

I don’t know shit about cars really but I owned a Subaru then I bought a Volvo and there is no comparison. Price point higher, yes, but you get what you pay for. 85K on my 2012 XC60 and no complaints to date. Similar size to Outback but a much quieter and sturdier rig. No snow performance issues w blizzaks.

If you go on a test drive tour keep Volvo in front of mind. Gas mileage sorta sucks tho at least in the T6.

[The Tortoise]

Highlander Hybrid.

[El Chupacabra]

Honda Pilot.

PM Pio if you need any specifics.

[uglymoney]

You need an 02 with 06 Baja turbo springs. My Outback laughs at heavy loads. In fact it takes some weight to get it to settle in just right.

Also, always do your alignment with weight in the car and full fuel.

Seriously though the Outback goes to the new global platform in 2020. Worth the wait probably. I so hate soft spring suspensions. The 00 to 04 Outbacks had the least mushy suspensions.

Also the new Subaru Ascent. Very tasty. https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-subaru...ual-1826160111




Also I agree...Awd Sienna. Highlander. Also 4R for bomber everything save fuel burn rate and ride.

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[sruffian]

Toyota Highlander might fit your needs if you can afford one. Friend just bought a 2015 and loves it. Won't shut up about it in fact. He's got multiple bikes on the rear rack. Tows his raft with it too. I think it has a 5000 towing capacity. 24 MPG.

Lifted Sienna, right? So you kinda just choose ground clearance or sliding doors (ostensibly based on the age of your children).

OP probably doesn't want to hear it, but a forester isn't a bad choice. Or 4 door taco. But I'm pretty sure you can't get a 4wd, 4 door, 4 cylinder tacoma. EPA says v6 gets better highway mileage, anyway

[yeahman]

Lifted Sienna, right?

Not sure. Sienna towing capacity 3,500 pounds vs. 5,000 for the highlander.

Outback towing capacity is listed as 2,700 pds.

[Sirshredalot]

Lifted Sienna, right? So you kinda just choose ground clearance or sliding doors (ostensibly based on the age of your children).

OP probably doesn't want to hear it, but a forester isn't a bad choice. Or 4 door taco. But I'm pretty sure you can't get a 4wd, 4 door, 4 cylinder tacoma. EPA says v6 gets better highway mileage, anyway

Or, if you're a real baller, lift kit on your Sienna. Ground clearance AND sliding doors.

[detrusor]

Go and sienna.

A hard 210k miles later best vehicle we’ve ever owned. Driven it everywhere, loaded down, pulling raft and trailer. Sell the Subaru while you can, drop 30 ish on a lease return.


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[Swine]

I hate my Outback, but bought it as a beater so whatever, but I get it. I think they're highly overrated. As do sveral friends who have and/or currently own.

We have an older GX470. Depreciation is crazy so you can pick up one that was babied by a rich dentist and it's absolutely mint and relatively cheap. They are beasts in the snow and offroad. Maybe not quite enough rear cargo for you though.... I'd still check one out. Be prepared to drop more on gas though.

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[auvgeek]

Selling a car with a known issue instead of the fixing the issue seems like an over-reaction when you could at least try to fix the issue. Especially if you say you're a suspension guy.

It's well known that the OEM springs are just too soft to handle gear + two people in the rear seat. So just buy an aftermarket spring set with a slight lift (<1") but a much higher spring rate.

e.g.,

https://www.rallitek.com/oe-height-s...2015-2018.html

https://www.rallitek.com/oe-height-s...2015-2018.html

If you routinely have a huge load in the rear, you could go with the super-raised spring:
https://www.rallitek.com/raised-spri...2000-2004.html

Rallitek support said they stopped recommending that for the Gen 5 outback because

the downtravel was pretty bad on the super raised spring, which is why we moved to a spacer. This super raised spring wasn't designed for 15-17 OB, but rather a spring of ours that just happened to fit. So we provided it as an option, but individuals weren't using enough weight with it, and this causes their struts to top out during full droop.

[ski-wpk]

Buy my Sienna! 2015 Limited w/ AWD, 34K miles, certified pre-owned, under warranty until April 2019. Like the OP, we are bailing on a newly purchased vehicle - bought the Sienna five weeks ago, but my wife doesn’t like it. PM for mag price. Seriously.

If not the Sienna, Consider a Volvo XC70 T6. Drives amazingly smooth under load, incredibly fun to drive, roof is low enough that box and bike access is still easy. Can’t imagine it would have similar issues as the Outback. I’m not at all a car guy but I actually find I want to drive the XC - it’s just so damn comfortable.

[uglymoney]

Selling a car with a known issue instead of the fixing the issue seems like an over-reaction when you could at least try to fix the issue. Especially if you say you're a suspension guy.

It's well known that the OEM springs are just too soft to handle gear + two people in the rear seat. So just buy an aftermarket spring set with a slight lift (<1") but a much higher spring rate.

e.g.,

https://www.rallitek.com/oe-height-s...2015-2018.html

https://www.rallitek.com/oe-height-s...2015-2018.html

If you routinely have a huge load in the rear, you could go with the super-raised spring:
https://www.rallitek.com/raised-spri...2000-2004.html

Rallitek support said they stopped recommending that for the Gen 5 outback because

Ftw. Takes an hour or so to change out rear suspension per side. The rallitek's weren't available when I did my mods.

223k on my 02 now which is mostly my in town beater but still has a few trips to the mountains left in it maybe. 50k on the new shortblock. Runs better than ever. Probably means it will blow up soon.

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[JPaul]

Bummed to hear about your Suby experience, OP. Hope you can get it sorted quickly.

I got a bit confused by your use of "rugged","heavier duty", and "beef" in the OP, but the rest of your description implies tons of miles in nice weather, and then tons in heavy winter, but all on road. If that's the case, I definitely +1 a used 2011+ Highlander Hybrid for you (or RX hybrid if you really only have 4 passengers -> sorry!) as all weather highway-eating machines.

We have just over 100k on a 2011 HiHy for our family of 4, with lots of storm chasing/driving in Tahoe when nature cooperates, but mostly dry highway and city miles. The only meaningful difference in our loads being I put 2 bikes on top + 2 on the hitch when we travel vs. your 4 bikes on the hitch (9 & 13 year old: check!). If just the 4 of us, all ski gear fits inside the car w/out being cramped, but we can take up to 7 skiing with racks/boxes up top for gear.

This car has been very reliable, is very powerful for highway travel/merges, does surprisingly well on snow, and gets awesome gas mileage. Should feel familiar after your RX, but slightly more passenger room/slightly less refined features/slightly crappier ride/more cargo area. If your RX was not hybrid, I bet getting a hybrid will net better acceleration.

We moved from an 2002 Outback, adding a ton of room + 2 seats* + better mileage + higher tow rating (3500 vs. 2700 in the OB). The only spec we lost out on (aside from wallet weight) was 0.7 in of ground clearance -> think about whether you ever felt like clearance was an issue in your OB, as it will be more of an issue in the Highlander/RX.

Highlander is *not* a lifted Sienna, but rather a *barely lifted*, otherwise stretched Camry -> Siennas have much more interior space/better layout for people and cargo, have a good reputation for handling in snow (AWD), but worse mileage and <7" ground clearance. Same trailer capacity as HiHy, tho. I have huge Sienna envy sometimes, it's a cool car (I said it...), and gets almost same mileage as the T6 Volvos/H6 Subys.

Some additional FWIWs:
- MDX awd system works really well in heavy Tahoe snow, and this is an overall really nice package. I think Pilot is generally same platform, but has 3rd row available more years, and higher towing capacity (for your bikes!). Lower mileage than hybrid and regular Highlanders, tho
- Swine is spot on with the GX 470. Great ride, super value, but you'll pay at the pump. Often. Get this if you think you'll be doing much forest road/off road exploring or, really, get one for $10k and leave it at your ski home. If you're thinking about used 4runner, look at a GX 470 of the same year instead (up to 2010, then GX460 became a Highlander w/bad mileage)
- You can do lots of work to the Suby, but you won't be able to embiggen the interior to account for growth of your 9 & 13 year olds -> You are at peak "family fitting in one" right now. And you shouldn't have to throw more time & money at this thing just to use as advertised.

Good luck!
Paul

* when using all 7 seats in the Highlander, there is really no cargo room. For occasional use/direct OB replacement, roof box picks up slack. If you expect to see more passengers regularly, see AWD Sienna envy.

[Cocximus]

Audi. Either pay 2x for a new one or get a 5x older one for the same price. Either way you will be way ahead. Handling, reliability, power, and fuel efficiency. And the PRESTIGE. No one checks if you are sleeping in an Audi

[CaliBrit]

4runner, end thread.