The Nutrition Science thread

[SkiBall]

Isn't every day the first day of the rest of your life?

Of course. But apparently in Sept it is different.

[neufox47]

Isn't every day the first day of the rest of your life?

True but if I need to lose 15lbs and haven’t been working out in July it’s not a big deal. If that’s still me in November my season is off to a rough start.

[SkiBall]

Start with something, anything. I guess the point of this thread is to start.

[neufox47]

Not doing keto , I’ll do low carb but my body rebels hard against keto; intense cravings, can’t exercise as hard.

[Dantheman]

At one year, obese patients who had their insulin pharmaceutically suppressed lost 15 kg (!) more fat than those given placebo.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/advanc...9#.W5Ol0MXTKVw

This makes a lot of sense given how insulin interacts with HSL. The abstract doesn't say what the difference in calorie consumption was between the two groups and the full text isn't available, but it was a double blind RCT so they probably controlled that to some degree. Even if patients ate ad libitum and the DZX group ate less calories, that is likely the direct result of the DZX. Insulin was suppressed, HSL activity increased, patients metabolized their ample body fat more effectively, and thus were less hungry and ate less.

Just say no to insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia, kids.

[neufox47]

Where can I buy DZX?

[Dantheman]

Appears to be Rx only: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazoxide

Regardless, I definitely wouldn't mess with it if I wasn't obese and under strict medical supervision. I'd really like to read the full text of the study to see what kind of precautions they took to prevent adverse consequences of insulin suppression (at a minimum, I'd imagine these would be similar to Type 1 diabetes and include hyperglycemia and ketoacidosis). Messing with such a critically important hormone is not something to be taken lightly. For the non-obese (patients in the study had BMIs of 30-38) improving your insulin sensitivity and lowering your insulin production the old fashioned way through diet and exercise would carry a lot less risk (read: none).

[Danno]

Tomorrow I am taking the day off to go on a huge mountain bike ride, to see some aspens.

I am excited because mt biking. But I am a little nervous because the ride I'm planning is bigger than any I have done this year. And with the keto diet, I am new to managing food intake on a big exercise day like this. I have grown quite accustomed to not eating anything before/during exercise, I just stick with my normal eating schedule. And for 2+ hour rides, I drink a gatorade 30-60 minutes before starting (maybe 35g carbs). This works really well. But this ride might be 5 hours, and I'm not sure what to do. Will my body happily burn fat (ketones) while also using the gatorade? Should I bring a second gatorade for energy boost midway (yes)? Should I bring real food and try a whole different approach?

I am probably going to just bring the extra gatorade and also bring some keto foods (almonds, beef stick, etc). And I am excited to try out this notion of not needing any food for big exercise. But like I said, also nervous.

[SkiBall]

Gatorade will give more of the quick spike type energy that I would think is against what you are trying to do? Maybe stash one in pack if nervous. I would try the whole food route personally.

[Danno]

Gatorade will give more of the quick spike type energy that I would think is against what you are trying to do? Maybe stash one in pack if nervous. I would try the whole food route personally.

Well, quick spike is what I need. A few months ago I discovered that when exercising, I was fine with basic aerobic activity (jogging, gravel road grinds, etc) but when quick anaerobic bursts were needed, I was out of gas right from the start. After researching, I discovered that this was a common problem, that the anaerobic bursts don't come from ketones. I came upon what some call the "targeted keto" approach, which is to have 25-50g carbs about 30-60 minutes before that type of exercise (through trial and error I discovered that gatorade worked very well for this). Adopting this approach worked wonders, I had a couple of friends that rode with me before and after note that it was night and day how much faster I was.

So I fully intend to drink the pre-ride gatorade, it's the mid-ride one I am not sure about, and mid-ride fueling in general that I am nervous about.

[Dantheman]

20-40 grams carbs/hour, depending on pace and how you're feeling. Gatorade is decidedly sub-optimal. Liquid Gatorade you buy off the shelf is sweetened with HCFS, which is 55% fructose. Fructose is a poor energy source for exercise since it can only be metabolized in the liver; unlike glucose your muscles cannot use it directly for energy. Fructose in more than minimal amounts is also known to cause gastric distress during endurance exercise. If you make it from a powder that's better, since sweetness in the powdered form comes from dextrose (glucose monosaccharide). But, glucose polysaccharides (starch, maltodextrin) are preferable to monosaccharides since they are absorbed in more concentrated solutions (~20% vs <10%). IOW, the ratio of grams of glucose absorbed to grams of water absorbed is higher, providing more energy and reducing the probability of gastric distress.

Get in some BCAAs or protein to prevent muscle catabolism.

Caffeine is a hell of a PED. Depending on your body size and personal tolerance, 50-100 mg every 2-3 hours.

Some reading:
https://www.hammernutrition.com/know...ial-knowledge/
https://www.hammernutrition.com/know...ced-knowledge/

[Danno]

You sure about gatorade being HFCS? Because I heard the things you claim re fructose and settled on gatorade after a) reading recommendations for it and b) looking at the nutrition label. http://www.pepsicobeveragefacts.com/...rm=RTD&size=20 Says "sugar" and "dextrose".

[I've seen black diamonds!]

You sure about gatorade being HFCS? Because I heard the things you claim re fructose and settled on gatorade after a) reading recommendations for it and b) looking at the nutrition label. http://www.pepsicobeveragefacts.com/...rm=RTD&size=20 Says "sugar" and "dextrose".

Try something like this


or this

[Dantheman]

You sure about gatorade being HFCS? Because I heard the things you claim re fructose and settled on gatorade after a) reading recommendations for it and b) looking at the nutrition label. http://www.pepsicobeveragefacts.com/...rm=RTD&size=20 Says "sugar" and "dextrose".

It used to be HFCS, they must have phased it out. I haven't actually drank it in a long time. Regardless:

1. "Sugar" is the first ingredient after water. In this context, sugar = sucrose = 50/50 glucose/fructose. It's still a lot of fructose.
2. It's still entirely mono/disaccharides. Polysaccharides are far preferable.

[Danno]

Well, maybe I'll look for an alternative after I finish the big pack of gatorade I got at costco. I have heard to avoid fructose for the reason you mention, the other stuff you mention is new.

While this is my first big ride post-keto, it's not my first ride, so I'm not going to completely change up what I am doing. One of the reasons I started using gatorade is because I was having some stomach distress with my first choice of carbs (honey stinger waffles).

[skaredshtles]

Try something like this


or this

Only if I'm about to die.

[Self Jupiter]

Sciendentritionists- any issues you see with NUUN hydration / electrolyte tablets?

https://nuunlife.com/products/nuun-electrolytes/

[Danno]

I'm barely a dental hygienist, but I have used Nuun and it seemed to work. In the sense that playing two days of ultimate in 100+ degree heat in Phoenix would seem to require some form of electrolyte and that's all I used, and felt fine.

[Flyoverland Captive]

Sciendentritionists- any issues you see with NUUN hydration / electrolyte tablets?

https://nuunlife.com/products/nuun-electrolytes/

I use these for long rides; they seem to work. Not as much scaly residue in my bottles as Hammer Fizz, which is nice.

[SkiBall]

Then why not use the Nuun and give the gatorade to the neighborhood kids? It would be a nice gesture.

[Danno]

Then why not use the Nuun and give the gatorade to the neighborhood kids? It would be a nice gesture.

are you asking me? if so, because I'm actually drinking the gatorade for the sugar, not the electrolytes. I use Ultima for pure eletcrolytes. https://www.ultimareplenisher.com/products/

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Most Nuun is for hydration/ electrolyte replacement. Low calorie. Some also have caffeine. They also make a higher calorie version (called "Performance" I think?) that is similar to Tailwind and other such products. I like the taste of the Nuun stuff better (it has less flavor), but it can be hard to find and doesn't dissolve very well. Some people also just squeeze a Gu (or similar) into a bottle and swish is it around until it sort of dissolves. Whatever works and offends your tastebuds the least. If you're not going to be out for a long time, or you take some breaks to chill and eat it's all unnecessary. Have a sandwich.

[SkiBall]

are you asking me? if so, because I'm actually drinking the gatorade for the sugar, not the electrolytes. I use Ultima for pure eletcrolytes. https://www.ultimareplenisher.com/products/

As a lifelong sugar addict, I am finally rebelling...mostly. I still have weakness...except when I am trying to do something healthy.

[babybear]

i am not a fan of that nuun bc all the flavors have that fizzy/effervescence thing going on
orange gatorade is one of my favorite things in the world- I keep trying to find a similar/ better replacement but have not yet succeeded
Also tried those concentrated liquid Mio things and those were pretty good. lots of different flavors and some with electrolytes, caffeine etc
pretty sure they are filled with weird chemies but sometimes you just gotta flavor your water with something amirite

[Fritz]

Skratch labs?