The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[Kevo]

I have owned a total of 3 pairs of Shifts on 3 pairs of skis. At first I bought into the idea of "it's a Ferrari, gotta treat it well", but after a multitude of problems and safety issues, I'm now strongly of the opinion that no one should ski these bindings.

-First, the bindings were shipped to shops without adequate documentation and training for shop employees to set the bindings up properly. My local shop had mounted a pair of shifts for me and (I believe) set the AFDs too high, which resulted in me shattering both toe pieces on a landing. I ended up getting some warranty toe pieces sent out, which kept those skis in the mix for a little while. LeeLau's excellent write up on Newschoolers taught me to adjust the bindings myself, which helped, but I still had some major issues. The lack of adequate documentation and training seems never to have been addressed.

-The Shift touring mode is cumbersome to step into (it is so annoying to have to depress the locking mechanism to step in) and I repeatedly had issues across all three of my pairs of shifts including the toe lock magically unlocking itself, brakes randomly deploying while touring, and the bindings popping off on side hills while completely locked out. I've owned multiple generations of these bindings. Despite adding little dimples to the toe piece near the locking mechanism, the problems with touring were never fixed, even in subsequent years.

-Most importantly, major safety issues related to prereleases. I had multiple very bad prereleases across these bindings in all different kinds of conditions including untracked soft snow. Every time this has happened I've double checked DIN settings and forward pressure. There is no common denominator and no rhyme or reason as to why the prereleases were happening. I've taken these bindings off jumps and drops without issues, but then had them pop off while skiing gently on untracked snow 10 runs after stepping into them. I can deal with weird touring issues and lack of training for shop employees, but prereleasing is a major safety issue. After two back to back days of prereleases in pow this season, I figured that maybe at 200 lbs maybe I'm just too heavy for the Shifts and resigned that I'd never ski them again. Today, my 120 lb girlfriend had a bad prerelease on her Shifts while skiing trees. She was miraculously OK but almost lost a ski in the powder and could have been seriously injured had she tumbled a few feet to the side after the ski popped off. It seems it is possible to prerelease from Shifts at any weight in any conditions.

Salomon has a history of releasing bindings and/or boots that have not adequately been designed or tested, resulting in major injuries. It boggles my mind that they haven't recalled Shifts for prerelease safety reasons. I've skied Salomon products for well over 20 years, but given all of the problems and safety issues that my friends, my girlfriend and I have had with Shifts and the MTN Pure bindings, I'll never buy another Salomon binding, boot or ski. I'm done.

[Mogreen]

Going up 10 mm is no problem usually with shift brakes. It’s preferable to have at least a 10mm step down so the brakes tuck up tight and don’t catch when touring.

Coming back to share that going down 10mm on the brake width was perfect. The 90mm brakes are perfect for the 100mm ski , tuck up perfectly and no issues with brakes catching while touring

[shredorded]

Been on shifts since late last season, skiing mostly inbounds. Havent had a single pre-release. Seems I’ve been lucky with my pair.

[Name Redacted]

I've got 4 years on a pair of Shifts and they've been on 3 different pairs of skis. Very few issues. My wife has had hers for 3 seasons with no issues too. I don't know, maybe we are lucky or something.

[Full Trucker]

This is my 6th season on a pair of 1st gen Shifts that I pre-ordered the season they came out. They live on my daily drivers, a pair of Black Crows Atris. For several seasons these were my only skis, and I skied them inbounds, on day tours, and multi-day hut trips. I ski an average of 35-40 days a year, and while I don’t send cliffs or do airs I do ski technical terrain, trees, and steeps. At 6’2” and 200 lbs I push on these things fairly hard.

Other than the occasional brake deploying while skinning after clacking the skis together, I’ve had zero issues with these bindings. No pre releases, nothing. Nada.

One day last week at Monarch I saw two people with the toe lever thing flipped up, a they were skiing like that. I thought maybe they didn’t know how the binding was supposed to work, so I talked to them. Both people said the bindings had broken like that. So, they do break, I guess? And maybe I’m just lucky? But I’ve seen way more non-broken Shifts on skis than broken ones.

I just bought another pair (scored a NIB pair of gen 1 here in TGR) and put them on a more dedicated pow ski. Only two days in, but they feel solid.

[TahoeJ]

Anecdotal accounts of having these bindings and not experiencing any serious issues are just that... anecdotal. There have been enough incidents otherwise to confirm that there's a problem, and not just when they're mounted incorrectly. I know someone who was staunchly in the "well they've been great for me after a few years" camp right up until he had a horribly-timed pre-release and it could have killed him.

[goolick]

Anecdotal accounts of having these bindings and not experiencing any serious issues are just that... anecdotal. There have been enough incidents otherwise to confirm that there's a problem, and not just when they're mounted incorrectly. I know someone who was staunchly in the "well they've been great for me after a few years" camp right up until he had a horribly-timed pre-release and it could have killed him.

Anecdotal accounts of having these bindings and experiencing serious issues are just that... anecdotal. There have been enough experiences otherwise to confirm that there's not a problem. I know someone who was staunchly in the "well I'm suspicious of a horribly-timed pre-release that could kill me" camp until a few years later they had been great for him.

[californiagrown]

Anecdotal accounts of having these bindings and experiencing serious issues are just that... anecdotal. There have been enough experiences otherwise to confirm that there's not a problem. I know someone who was staunchly in the "well I'm suspicious of a horribly-timed pre-release that could kill me" camp until a few years later they had been great for him.

I have no doubt that more shift owners have zero issues, than those that have issues. The FACT remains, and this thread is evidence, that an abnormally large amount of people have issues with this binding. therefore, its a pretty shitty binding. Unless you are comfortable with a laughably high failure rate that is well documented.

you didnt have to die in a Ford Pinto to understand that it was a dangerous car.

[SkiLyft]

^^ yuppp, the whole thing is a binding should be reliable. First and foremost….

Skied them for 3 years and had 2 terrifying experiences along with a few other insignificant pre-releases.

Just get Casts as that is likely the use that most shift owners want. 99% IB and 1% Slack


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[eagle28]

Wondering if anyone has a line on the new Flared Din Window? I’ve been following this thread and the other thread in tech talk but my local shop hasn’t been very helpful getting these.

[TahoeJ]

Anecdotal accounts of having these bindings and experiencing serious issues are just that... anecdotal. There have been enough experiences otherwise to confirm that there's not a problem. I know someone who was staunchly in the "well I'm suspicious of a horribly-timed pre-release that could kill me" camp until a few years later they had been great for him.

If you don't understand why your logic is backwards and mine is not, well... think a little harder.

[bw_wp_hedonism]

I have no doubt that more shift owners have zero issues, than those that have issues. The FACT remains, and this thread is evidence, that an abnormally large amount of people have issues with this binding. therefore, its a pretty shitty binding. Unless you are comfortable with a laughably high failure rate that is well documented.

you didnt have to die in a Ford Pinto to understand that it was a dangerous car.

^^ This thread is fun to follow because it’s 10.5 contributors are evidence that an abnormally large amount of people have problems with the binding.

Disclaimer: written inebriated.

[~mikey b]

I guess that’s why we have a Consumer Product Safety Commission, who to this point, has not chosen to recall these bindings.

[Supermoon]

My anecdotal experience is that I haven’t had any issues with mine, and haven’t heard any issues with people I know in the real world who have them.

I’ve long wondered if the boot you use is important to the success, or lack of, that people have with the bindings. I have Salomon touring boots, and don’t need to adjust the AFD upwards at all which removes a point of failure.

It’s definitely head scratching to see such disparate outcomes on here.

[anotherVTskibum]

I have no doubt that more shift owners have zero issues, than those that have issues. The FACT remains, and this thread is evidence, that an abnormally large amount of people have issues with this binding. therefore, its a pretty shitty binding. Unless you are comfortable with a laughably high failure rate that is well documented.

you didnt have to die in a Ford Pinto to understand that it was a dangerous car.

I'd love to see actual data on failure/issue rate. There are other bindings that have sordid reputations online yet persisted in production for years (Marker race bindings come to mind).

Several current wormscrew-adjustable race bindings also have obnoxious self-adjustment habits, so the Shift is most definitely not alone in being imperfect.

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[kootenayskier]

I'd love to see actual data on failure/issue rate. There are other bindings that have sordid reputations online yet persisted in production for years (Marker race bindings come to mind).

Several current wormscrew-adjustable race bindings also have obnoxious self-adjustment habits, so the Shift is most definitely not alone in being imperfect.

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I’m 100% certain that Shift bindings are dangerously inappropriate (the sole/AFD interface geometry simply does not work) for expert level resort skiing in alpine soled boots.
From what I see, intermediate level skiers, wearing Gripwalk or WTR soled boots and who only tour occasionally seem oblivious to their weird quirks and performance shortcomings. They meet the needs of these 1 setup to do everything skiers better than any current alternative, and so will stay on the market.
Many expert level skiers in Gripwalk or WTR soled boots seem to be fine with Shifts, until they’re not. I guess it just depends on your mileage, luck, and how comfortable you are with occasional random releases.

[Dee Hubbs]

I’m 100% certain that Shift bindings are dangerously inappropriate (the sole/AFD interface geometry simply does not work) for expert level resort skiing in alpine soled boots.
From what I see, intermediate level skiers, wearing Gripwalk or WTR soled boots and who only tour occasionally seem oblivious to their weird quirks and performance shortcomings. They meet the needs of these 1 setup to do everything skiers better than any current alternative, and so will stay on the market.
Many expert level skiers in Gripwalk or WTR soled boots seem to be fine with Shifts, until they’re not. I guess it just depends on your mileage, luck, and how comfortable you are with occasional random releases.

I assumed it was the other way around, that adjusting the binding's AFD plate somewhere to a mid point to accommodate a Grip/WTR/Multi was the culprit.
I'm have an Alpine Din (ISO 5355) sole on my Lange XT3, and I have to adjust the AFD all the way maxed out (topped out) to meet my toe with proper friction. There is now way of the stepped ladder of the AFD moving/slipping from that maxed out position.
I don't ski my Shift mounted skis that often, but I have had zero issues with both mine and Mrs Dee's (both set to Alpine 5355 soles).

[Huskier]

Wondering if anyone has a line on the new Flared Din Window? I’ve been following this thread and the other thread in tech talk but my local shop hasn’t been very helpful getting these.

Samsies. Google doesn't know, shop doesn't know. Email saloman?

[anotherVTskibum]

I did ski my first pair with alpine soles on my pre-XT3 Lange and had zero issues after adjusting them properly, but that was also on a Bent Chet 120 in Maine, so I didn't get enough days that warranted skiing lift served on them to have much of a data set. I now have two pairs of Shifts in my quiver (on Bent 100 and 120s), with a decent number of days on the 100, but I've switched to the Hawx XTD as my everyday boot.

It does make sense to me that you have to max the AFD for alpine norm, as that's the smallest allowable sole and has a clearly defined dimension.

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[Full Trucker]

From what I see, intermediate level skiers, wearing Gripwalk or WTR soled boots and who only tour occasionally seem oblivious to their weird quirks and performance shortcomings. They meet the needs of these 1 setup to do everything skiers better than any current alternative, and so will stay on the market.

I feel seen.

[Lindahl]

There's people who claim they pre-released and people who actually pre-release. It's hard to know who is who from vague anecdotes on the internet.

[~mikey b]

I never prereleased

skied hard

[aanev]

I usually have one, two or three like this every season and it is always the same (the skis are flexed...):

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMfBtHLDgl0/

I'm fine with that.

P.S. BSL - 292mm, Height - 165cm, Weight - 70kg naked, Rear DIN setting - 10.5

[smooth operator]

I never prereleased

Not according to your wife…


(Sorry couldn’t resist)

[~mikey b]

heh