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  1. #1
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    Niner goes Tango Uniform...

    Hopefully the new owner(s) honor their warranties. Heh. I crack myself up.

    http://www.businessden.com/2017/11/2...705#newsletter

  2. #2
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    Sad b/c I liked them...but kinda saw it coming.


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

  3. #3
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    They want to invest in e-bike development? Fuck that shit. I felt it was a shame them going Chapter 11 till I read that.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  4. #4
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    It filed Chapter 11, which is not tits up. (Chapter 7 is tits up.) Chapter 11 is a reorganization petition. (Yeah, sometimes Chapter 11s are "liquidating reorgs" but the article suggests the debtor will propose a plan to bring in fresh capital for an operating reorg).

    Article says $9.8 million of assets, $7.9 of liabilities, likely taken straight from the BK schedules, i.e., positive net worth. Schedules showing positive net worth could indicate any of several things, e.g., desire to reject lease or other executory contract, or a creditor on brink of foreclosing or executing on assets.
    Last edited by OldSteve; 11-29-2017 at 02:06 PM.

  5. #5
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    I think we will see a fair amount of contraction in the bike industry, just like the early Ď90s. Leading edge of 29 and 27.5 gets caught up by the big guys, no more high end niche to fill.

    Ebikes will be the next niche I suppose.


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    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    They want to invest in e-bike development? Fuck that shit. I felt it was a shame them going Chapter 11 till I read that.
    Interesting.

    Since an e-bike is the only way you'll ever get above 4k feet in the region, buster, I'd think you'd want e-bikes to proliferate.

    Your pretense at knowing BK law is great, too. Fat chump working a phone tech line for a crap employer at $15/hr, BS in crapology, no law degree... yeah! You are the expert on business solvency and Chapter 11 proceedings.

    ******************

    As to Chris Sugai? Got his wish: GROW THE SPORT. Doubt he's poorer at the end of the run, most likely the very opposite.

    His walkaway robs me of one of my great predicted comedies... Specialized sues Niner. Sue Guy, Mike Sinyard, files litigation against Sugai. The mellifluidity....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    It filed Chapter 11, which is not tits up. (Chapter 7 is tits up.) Chapter 11 is a reorganization petition.

    <snip>

    Article says $9.8 million of assets, $7.9 of liabilities
    Saw those numbers and scratched my head -> thanks for the insight, Steve.

  8. #8
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    Every bike company will have an e-bike soon. Get over it. Even you favorite bro brand has one in development I can guarantee it.

  9. #9
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    Niner goes Tango Uniform...

    Itís called screw the unsecured creditors, ie. all your vendors, to the tune $5.6 mil.

    Then reorganize, sell to a PE firm and make a ton.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shredhead View Post
    It’s called screw the unsecured creditors, ie. all your vendors, to the tune $5.6 mil.

    Then reorganize, sell to a PE firm and make a ton.
    You think the judge will approve a plan that stiffs all the unsecureds? Where did you get the $5.6 million figure? Did you see the schedules?

  11. #11
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    That's crazy. Definitely one of the most influential bike brands of the last decade, for better or worse. Too bad they couldn't turn all that 29er hype into long term success.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    Every bike company will have an e-bike soon. Get over it. Even you favorite bro brand has one in development I can guarantee it.
    This...
    I get the backlash and rider fears about losing trail access here.
    However, the category is going off in the EU (where they have embraced it) right now, why wouldn't they?
    Alpental Indigenous

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    Every bike company will have an e-bike soon. Get over it. Even you favorite bro brand has one in development I can guarantee it.
    Transition and Guerilla Gravity would both fold before making those abominations. Santa cruz is almost to the same degree with distaste but they don't call 100% of their own shots anymore.

    So no. There are still a few mountainbike companies out there.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    You think the judge will approve a plan that stiffs all the unsecureds? Where did you get the $5.6 million figure? Did you see the schedules?
    It's not like such procedure approvals are unprecedented. You think this Mystery Meat economy we have is because of high integrity?

    BK judges / magistrates aren't known for their High Horsepower noggins.

    I get your particularity/precision, though. Clarifying. Sure. But is it the trend? What IS the trend?

  15. #15
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    There is no trend. Each Chapter 11 plan is its own thing. Based on my experience, if, as it appears, the debtor is seeking new capital or an assets sale to a third party buyer, the plan will likely provide for unsecureds getting paid. I haven't seen the schedules, so I don't know how much of the $7.9 million is unsecured. IVO the nature of the biz, I'd be surprised if unsecureds are a big chunk of that. Typically there's a big secured bank loan secured by all assets. And if the debtor was buying inventory on terms, the vendors would have a security interest either per agreement or Article 9 purchase money security interest. My guess is that the debtor filed Chapter 11 to get out of a lease and/or other executory contract to clear the way for a reorg or sale.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    That's crazy. Definitely one of the most influential bike brands of the last decade, for better or worse. Too bad they couldn't turn all that 29er hype into long term success.
    Really? As someone in the industry for the last decade I never really thought of them as influential. They really only made one cool purple hardtail, everything else seemed to be using a goofy suspension design or early Gary Fisher geo.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rludes025 View Post
    Really? As someone in the industry for the last decade I never really thought of them as influential. They really only made one cool purple hardtail, everything else seemed to be using a goofy suspension design or early Gary Fisher geo.
    This. It would be quite a stretch to argue they were "influential" in any way... I always thought of them as a marketing/chi-chi glom-on to the 29'er hysteria in the 2000's.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Transition and Guerilla Gravity would both fold before making those abominations. Santa cruz is almost to the same degree with distaste but they don't call 100% of their own shots anymore.

    So no. There are still a few mountainbike companies out there.
    This. There are plenty of smaller companies that will never make an e-bike.

  19. #19
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    Anxiously awaiting a closeout deal on an RLT 9 Steel, and the disappearance of "Pedal Damn It" stickers...or at the very least, the addition of a comma.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    This. It would be quite a stretch to argue they were "influential" in any way... I always thought of them as a marketing/chi-chi glom-on to the 29'er hysteria in the 2000's.
    I didn't say innovative, I said influential. In 2005 the 29er's place in the industry was just a bunch of tools circlejerking on MTBR. Niner helped take that concept and turn it into something that could be sold to posers and dentists for thousands of dollars a pop. It also allowed the industry to stick it's head permanently up it's ass with regards to wheel formats and component standards. We truly owe them a debt of gratitude.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    I didn't say innovative, I said influential. In 2005 the 29er's place in the industry was just a bunch of tools circlejerking on MTBR. Niner helped take that concept and turn it into something that could be sold to posers and dentists for thousands of dollars a pop. It also allowed the industry to stick it's head permanently up it's ass with regards to wheel formats and component standards. We truly owe them a debt of gratitude.
    This is your perception, the reality is different.
    Alpental Indigenous

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    I didn't say innovative, I said influential. In 2005 the 29er's place in the industry was just a bunch of tools circlejerking on MTBR. Niner helped take that concept and turn it into something that could be sold to posers and dentists for thousands of dollars a pop. It also allowed the industry to stick it's head permanently up it's ass with regards to wheel formats and component standards. We truly owe them a debt of gratitude.
    Even though you are full of shit with regards to Niner and "influence" - this post is PURE FUCKING GOLD.

  23. #23
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    Sales have an influence, though. And if you remember the years when 27.5 first came out you probably remember a few bikes that didn't handle as well as typical 29ers at the time. Since fork offsets are heavily influenced by prevailing sales I think it's safe to say Niner managed to contribute something, even if it was just market reinforcement.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Transition and Guerilla Gravity ...
    Yeah probably. My generalization is incorrect. Most name brand companies are making e-bikes. I don't care. We have much bigger problems in the real world to face than e-bikes. Enjoy it will you can, the hordes of lazy morons will inherit the earth.

  25. #25
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    Most of you guys aren't racers so you can't appreciate the "influence" that Niner had on the XC scene. For a while there that scene is what sold a lot of bikes. These days it is endurbro skidders and Niner even with good marketing isn't capturing those sales well.

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