Dog knee question - scope w/ gold thread???

[garyfromterrace]

So my favorite dog buddy in the world (Tomba) is getting old. He's a big (100lb), amazing, happy, loving, lab cross (probably mastif) getting on in years. He's 9.5 years old and starting to show some signs of arthritis in one of his back legs. He's happy when taking anti inflammatory/pain killers, however they are apparently tough on his liver and this concerns me (and his mom) in the long term.

The big guy lives in Munich with his mom (my step daughter) and we were chatting yesterday about his german vet's idea about doing arthroscopic surgery involving the use of gold thread in/around the knee joint. Never heard of such a thing. Price tag is about 1,500 euro (say $2K in real money).

Is this hokey bullshit? Like I say, I haven't heard of this procedure in humans (never mind animals). I love Tomba and don't want to see him in pain, however I also don't want to give money to a quack. Please help.

[PB]

Please confirm: the gold thread is supposed to be anti-arthritic?

Colloidal gold has been used for treating arthritis but thread is one step too far - hokum.

[garyfromterrace]

Please confirm: the gold thread is supposed to be anti-arthritic?

Colloidal gold has been used for treating arthritis but thread is one step too far - hokum.

Yep, that's the claim. Thanks PB, figured it was BS.

[jm2e]

Sounds like bullshit to me, but I'll run it by the veterinary surgeons in my circle.
Almost always, the best thing you can do for age related arthritis is weight management. Germans are like Americans and what they think is healthy is overweight. You should be able to see this dogs waist and trace of first 1-2 ribs. Have seen 1000x more significant turnaround from that one thing than from all medications and surgeries.
Would also be nice to know what kind of activity this dog is up to and how often. Some people run their big dogs like they're 40lb cattle dogs, with wicked long runs and chasing downhill after a mountain bike. Big dogs just can't tolerate that and eventually their joints cry foul. Or, maybe he's really sedentary and would do well with a better walking routine?
NSAIDs can definitely be helpful, but should be used intermittently for breakthrough pain like after a big day of hiking/playing. Every day use and there's definitely significantly increased risk of kidney impact and GI bleeding. There are other options for chronic pain like gabapentin, tramadol, amantadine, amitriptyline.

[garyfromterrace]

Thanks for the response jm2e, and really appreciate you consulting on Tomba's behalf! He's in pretty good shape. He gets at least 2 hours of walking a day and usually a decent little mountain excursion (3 hr ish hike, but not fast pace like mountain biking) if not every weekend, then every second weekend.

He's always been active. I'll let his mom know about the other medicinal pain options. Are any of these a bit easier on his liver than others? Thanks again!

[hutash]

Never heard of it, and I know a bit about DID. Keep him slim, mild regular, low impact exercise, try glucosamine (may help, may not), add NSAIDs as needed. I don't rush to NSAIDs like Rimadyl, but I don't hesitate to use them when indicated, even long term. As mentioned there are other meds as well, but NSAIDs used correctly can be very effective.

[Alaskan Rover]

I did a fairly thorough search on surgical quality gold thread and didn't really come up with anything viable.

Some plastic surgeon in Singapore using gold thread for face lifts,.but not the same application at all. His claim is that the gold thread collects collagen to it. Haven't seen any proof of that.

https://www.iyac.com.sg/en/aesthetic...read-lift.html

And if you look up "gold thread lift" a ton of slightly quacky face-lift stuff comes up. But haven't seen anything about arthroscopic use of gold thread.

Seems arthroscopy just to apply gold thread is a lot of short term pain for unproven gain. I wouldn't trust it.

[garyfromterrace]

Thanks much hutash, AR and bobby, copying a link to this thread to send Charlotte this morning. You guys are awesome.

[hutash]

That's DJD, not DID, fucken auto correct. I even went back and corrected the correction, but it auto corrected the correction in the auto correction that was incorrect in the first place.

[mrkbrnblm]

Sounds like a modern version of gold thread acupuncture (just what it sounds... acupuncture that leaves gold traces behind, in theory to treat arthritis). If you google, you'll find some pretty weird x-rays of people who've had it done for years and eventually need to get surgery to remove all the gold left behind. I haven't seen peer-reviewed studies on efficacy, but I wouldn't go for it. The addition of the scope lends a tinge of 21st-century tech to it, but still sounds just as bogus to me.