House electrical question

[CascadeLuke]

If you really want to cover your tail, disclose it. You (likely) have to provide a seller disclosure on known issues. This is a known issue and one that may be traceable back to you knowing. Id play it like it’s baked into the price. The buying agent will still probably ask for money post inspection.. repeat its baked in while also taking 2k off price so they feel like winners. Wash your hands and move on.

[SumJongGuy]

Disclosure is a no brainer. There isn't an inspector in the world who wouldn't flag that for any potential buyer. In the end, what matters is that the disclosure is communicated as rolled in to a discount off the market value of the property so they can't try to go lower. Or, ask for market value plus twice what the rewire will cost if there is likely going to be a bidding war.. then you offer to drop the value of the panel job and still come out at or above market on it.

[Dantheman]

My neighbor sold his house close to a year ago. The home inspector came in and had a list of shit that needed to be done. He told them to basically f-off. "It's an old house, take it or leave it, I'm not doing anything to it." That was gold. He sold the house without doing a damn thing.

Yeah, if you're in a hot market you have all the leverage. If you really want to play strategy, list the house for a few grand higher than you would have. Then, when the panel issue comes up offer to "discount" the price back down to what you would have listed it for in the first place.

Don’t just hope it doesn’t come up.

Declare it as one of the known issues for buyers.

You are legally required to disclose any known issue like this. Disclose everything you can think of, even little stuff. Roof had a small leak 15 years ago and you've since replaced the entire roof? Disclose it. Toilet clogged and overflowed once? Disclose it. Etc.

[Lahar]

Disclose it, treat it like it's part of the price, but be prepared to change it out. FP panels can hinder financing if the lender/underwriter gets wind of it. House ain't worth much burned to the ground, and they want to protect their investment as well.

[exsparky]

Zinsco is another crappy brand.

I would have swapped it but I don't get the "disclose it" drama. If the buyer is allowed to be stupid, why can't the seller?

I really don't get how you could buy a house and never look at the condition of the panel. Did the buyer look at he furnace and water heater, the roof, the concrete?

[Lahar]

I would have swapped it but I don't get the "disclose it" drama. If the buyer is allowed to be stupid, why can't the seller.

Because in a lot of states, the buyer could sue the seller for not disclosing if it can be proved they knew about it.

[Dantheman]

I would have swapped it but I don't get the "disclose it" drama. If the buyer is allowed to be stupid, why can't the seller.

Because you are legally required to disclose known issues. Disclosure primarily benefits the seller because it provides legal protection after the sale. Laws vary by state and even between counties and municipalities, but in general a buyer can legally sue the seller for up to 10 years after purchase. Say, in this case, a buyer buys the house with the bad panel, and it causes a major fire a year later. If thefortrees disclosed the problem the buyer has no legal recourse. If he didn't disclose it they could sue him for the damages.

It generally has to be something really serious for a buyer to consider legal action, and proving the seller's prior knowledge may be difficult. But, if you wrote it down on the disclosure form you're covered 100%.

[Rock Knocker]

the buyer could sue the seller for not disclosing if it can be proved they knew about it.

And knew the issues with the panel. A 80yo widow could be held to a different standard than another person.

[exsparky]

And knew the issues with the panel. A 80yo widow could be held to a different standard than another person.

I could see if the owner was in some way electrical and the house had an aluminum wire issue the guy would be liable but if the seller was a plumber, I'd have a hard time sticking him on a brand issue item on a panel in working condition.

[Rock Knocker]

It all depends on how informed the seller was.

[Core Shot]

Disclosure laws protect the lawyers.

If you actually got sued they would need proof. Like it’s in your purchase inspection. Or the neighbor told the new owner you knew.

Or, you sprayed it on the interwebs

But $5k for a panel? Robbery
$1 to2k at mostl. Last one was $800

[jackstraw]

Disclosure laws protect the lawyers.

If you actually got sued they would need proof. Like it’s in your purchase inspection. Or the neighbor told the new owner you knew.

Or, you sprayed it on the interwebs

But $5k for a panel? Robbery
$1 to2k at mostl. Last one was $800

Depends on the panel. 200a 40cir panel is say around $180-200, then your combo breakers needed everywhere are $30 each. Adds up quick in just material. But I'm with you, 5k is high, but maybe not as high as you'd think. New codes are border line nuts. And shit, do it now because all that stuff is going up...tarriffs!

[::: :::]

Depends on the panel. 200a 40cir panel is say around $180-200, then your combo breakers needed everywhere are $30 each. Adds up quick in just material. But I'm with you, 5k is high, but maybe not as high as you'd think. New codes are border line nuts. And shit, do it now because all that stuff is going up...tarriffs!

sparkies are $185/hr around here

i've seen service upgrades at +/-$3k recently

[iceman]

okay, on this same general topic, my AC system needs a new coil. The system is only 3 years old, it's still under warranty. It appears to be an installation error and a super super slow leak that took the 3 years to show up when finally the system conked out because of low refrigerant. I'm told a couple drops of solder won't fix it. $2000 for labor (not covered under warranty), and parts are a lot more but under warranty. As some here know, my house is for sale.

The warranty issues are complex, the installing company got bought by another company, who now does the service and found the problem. They're willing to handle the warranty issues but not the labor. The system works fine but will need the work done eventually and there's 2 years left on the warranty. If I don't fix it I'm dropping a time bomb in the buyer's lap, especially so if 2 years go by before they notice the problem, which would make the $2000 job more like $6000, and I'm sure it can be proven that I know about it if they figure out who does the maintenance now.

edit: I'm gonna get it fixed but if somebody can convince me i shouldn't bother...well I'm listening.

Karma and my desire to never fuck anybody over in my life both say pay the $2000 and get it fixed. but...$2000 out of pocket that I definitely won't get back. WWMD?

[jackstraw]

WWMD?

Sweat?

[Timberridge]

Are you sure its a leak and not the neighborhood kids huffing freon?

I just had a new condenser and evap installed and technician said they are required by law to put tamperproof covers on the charge ports now since kids huff the freon. I'm like, wtf?

[::: :::]

Karma and my desire to never fuck anybody over in my life both say pay the $2000 and get it fixed. but...$2000 out of pocket that I definitely won't get back. WWMD?

that kinda sucks, but it seems like you have to do it


the only angle I can see is if the new installing co doesn't have some responsibility for active warrantees (ie, more than they're letting on...), but that seems like a fairly fine straw to grasp at...

[iceman]

@ Timberridge: Yeah it's not Freon anymore, but i don't know if you can huff R-22 or not. Let's say maybe.

@ AC - yeah I'm scrambling but I don't really see a way around it. Not gonna win on the warranty issues, it's all documented.

[Timberridge]

Yeah whatever RXXX they using today in the 12 SEER units is still huffable...apparently.

[Dantheman]

YI just had a new condenser and evap installed and technician said they are required by law to put tamperproof covers on the charge ports now since kids huff the freon. I'm like, wtf?

There's a pretty solid argument for blanket drug legalization in here somewhere.

[fatnslow]

okay, on this same general topic, my AC system needs a new coil. The system is only 3 years old, it's still under warranty. It appears to be an installation error and a super super slow leak that took the 3 years to show up when finally the system conked out because of low refrigerant. I'm told a couple drops of solder won't fix it. $2000 for labor (not covered under warranty), and parts are a lot more but under warranty. As some here know, my house is for sale.

The warranty issues are complex, the installing company got bought by another company, who now does the service and found the problem. They're willing to handle the warranty issues but not the labor. The system works fine but will need the work done eventually and there's 2 years left on the warranty. If I don't fix it I'm dropping a time bomb in the buyer's lap, especially so if 2 years go by before they notice the problem, which would make the $2000 job more like $6000, and I'm sure it can be proven that I know about it if they figure out who does the maintenance now.

edit: I'm gonna get it fixed but if somebody can convince me i shouldn't bother...well I'm listening.

Karma and my desire to never fuck anybody over in my life both say pay the $2000 and get it fixed. but...$2000 out of pocket that I definitely won't get back. WWMD?

Call around a bit and see if you can find a one man shop(older guy). See if he can make a decent repair and recharge the system. My experience with HVAC guys have not been good. Most places don't want to do any repair work, just sell you new gear. Younger techs don't have the experience to solve problems, only replace parts.

[Djongo Unchained]

I didn't mean to imply shafting the buyer. Better advice after mine from the more experienced.

What I meant was disclose but let them deal with it , knowing full well they got some discount for assuming the issue.

I'm all about not fucking people over as well.



You can't really huff Freon can you? Crystallize yer lungs. And pronto.

[Rock Knocker]

sparkies are $185/hr around here

i've seen service upgrades at +/-$3k recently

It’s pretty easy for a panel swap to require a change of the service conductors

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
@ AC - yeah I'm scrambling but I don't really see a way around it. Not gonna win on the warranty issues, it's all documented.

Note to self: A/C warranties apparently are a pile of shit?

[iceman]

Note to self: A/C warranties apparently are a pile of shit?

The warranty on the equipment is fine, the problem is the change in company ownership and the fact that I didn't take the new company's highest-level warranty service when it was offered. To save $100/year I cost myself some coin. If I had coughed up the cash this would have been free to me. D'oh!

The system is almost new and I really didn't think it would need major repairs and I knew I could upgrade the service in later years without penalty if I wanted so I figured I'd keep the cash for now. Oops. Not their fault, I signed a contract that spelled it out, I knew what I was doing and it backfired.