gorrilla glue for binding screws is the way to go

[gregorys]

I've done hundreds of thousands of mounts in my lifetime (25 years full time seasonal ski mounter)

So, lets do that math on that.
100,000 [you used plural, meaning more than 100,000 mounts, but we'll go with the bare minimum - 100K mounts]
Lets assume you work 7 days a week, for six months every year - mounting skis, non-stop, for 25 years.

That's 180 days per year, for 25 years -- so 4500 days.
100,00 divided by 4500 days is a bit more than 22 mounts per day, EVERY SINGLE FREEKING DAY for half the year?

And if we say it's 200K or 300K mounts, we're talking like 40-60 ski mounts average, every single day, for six months of the year, working seven days a week.

If you only worked five days a week, and 100K mounts, we're talking 31 mounts per day - or 60-90 mounts per day at 200K or 300K lifetime mounts...

That sounds like slight exaggeration to me - but what do I know?

[swissiphic]

I remember lou dawson over at wildsnow doing a test of epoxy used for binding mounts...appeared to be no negative affect on the internals of the ski and/or foam in the core... just sayin'. And thanks for that little tech tip DIYsteve...

"My point is that the epoxy soaks into the core around the screw, creating a very tough resin/wood "plug" surrounding the screw. (This is why I turn skis bases up while the epoxy sets.)"

I've certainly experienced this after backing out epoxied screws and had to redrill new holes for a successive mount due to the fucked upness of the holes. I guess another approach would be just use the 'a little dab will do ya' approach and just use a bit of epoxy to basically seal the hole and not a syringe's worth of product to fill the hole? (like I did that resulted in the 'plug') But yeah, flip the ski upside down while epoxy cures. Good one.


https://www.wildsnow.com/598/epoxy-b...ntry-ski-core/

[swissiphic]

You know, my carpet tape experiment got me thinking...what about bonding plastic mount plates permanently onto ski topsheets for binding mounts? You can drill as many holes as you want in the plastic so you can move the binding fore/aft for changing mount point for different conditions/preferences.

Would be cool to get some feedback from some true engineer types about the viability of this system for long term use. Lots of variables to consider for sure, but, if it works, could be a game changer for a finicky dude such as myself where i'm always mounting, remounting cause i wanna tweak a ski's sweet spot. Never mind the aspect of using one binding for a ski quiver without having to dick around with quiver killers...great concept but it's a dick around to install them on every ski.

I'm also guessing, gut feel here...if you use the correct adhesive for the attachment of mounting plate to ski topsheet, a guy could use a hot air gun to loosen the bond and re and re said mounting plates (kinda like heating binding screws to remove in epoxied mounts)...just in case u.v. eventually degrades the plastic or the holes strip from multiple mounts/remounts, for example. Or, maybe use drilled out aluminum plates for better long term durability and by swiss cheesing it, get some weight savings? Dunno if the difference in materials of alu/topsheet would cause attachment failure due to different heating/cooling, expansion/contraction properties...hopefully some engineers can chime in.

[GeezerSteve]

what about bonding plastic mount plates permanently onto ski topsheets for binding mounts?

It'd need to be the right kind of plastic, maybe very high quality nylon, and even with that the pullout strength will be nowhere near a proper mount in a ski core. Those female threads in your cutting board (likely HDPE) will eventually fail if you ski long and hard on them. I know because I've made shift plates from HDPE and all of them eventually failed. They work for awhile -- i.e., long enough for binding placement experimentation -- but eventually the female threads will enlarge and the screws will get sloppy. My DIY shift plates made of Delrin sheet held up better. I also machined shift plates from 6061 Al alloy, which were bomber.

Voile made a nylon 4-hole tele to Dynafit adapter for skis with 4-hole tele inserts (e.g., some old Voiles, APs). As I recall, Voile spec'd it to be screwed one time only.

[1000-oaks]

Regarding bonding mounting plates to skis, I doubt the ski would last very long. Ski makers don't intend the topsheet to carry all the loading of skiing, and it probably wouldn't take long before you'd have a delam.

[GeezerSteve]

^ ^ ^ Agree. I interpreted him as having the bonding done in the ski factory

[gregorys]

It'd need to be the right kind of plastic, maybe very high quality nylon, and even with that the pullout strength will be nowhere near a proper mount in a ski core. Those female threads in your cutting board (likely HDPE) will eventually fail if you ski long and hard on them. I know because I've made shift plates from HDPE and all of them eventually failed. They work for awhile -- i.e., long enough for binding placement experimentation -- but eventually the female threads will enlarge and the screws will get sloppy. My DIY shift plates made of Delrin (nylon) sheet held up better. I also machined shift plates from 6061 Al alloy, which were bomber.

All really interesting, from an "academic" POV.

As for removal - epoxy probably works here. The transition temp from "glass" to more plasticity is ~140F - that doesn't mean complete melt at 140F - but that's the transition point.

I inline speed skate and many of the professional models of CF/fiberglass boots are engineered to be heated in an oven at 200F or so, [or boiling water, in a bag] - at those temps, the material of the shell becomes pretty pliable and can be punched and formed to provide an incredible level of fit.

While all the comments about the top-sheets pulling off, are likely correct, I'd guess you could peel off something glued down with epoxy by pouring boiling water over it and slowly lifting it.

@1000-oaks - I thought it was you, or someone who did a cheap dyna-duke plate style thing with BF inserts and sawing up a cutting-board, attaching that to the BF inserts, and then mounting to the plastic plate...

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

Please explain this.

Epoxy very often fuses the screw threads to the core material. Not all the time, but enough for me to realize that epoxy is overkill and to not even risk it.
I hate pulling out binding screws that no longer have any threads showing because they are caked with a mix of solidified epoxy and core material.
Do what you want with your skis though...

[swissiphic]

Thanks for the feedback guys, i've taken notes. And yes, I was thinking about a diy job, not factory installed, sorry for the ambiguity. As for topsheet delam over the long term, yeah, that is one of the variables under consideration...sooo, I guess I'll have to sacrifice a pair of old junkers as a test piece.

The obvious solution would be to simply screw down some mounting plates into various skis, but, again, just wondering if it's viable to bypass that laborious step by simply using an adhesive. If I go through with the project, i'll start a thread of the long term test and report results.

[bodywhomper]

Velcro!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

So, lets do that math on that.
100,000 [you used plural, meaning more than 100,000 mounts, but we'll go with the bare minimum - 100K mounts]
Lets assume you work 7 days a week, for six months every year - mounting skis, non-stop, for 25 years.

That's 180 days per year, for 25 years -- so 4500 days.
100,00 divided by 4500 days is a bit more than 22 mounts per day, EVERY SINGLE FREEKING DAY for half the year?

And if we say it's 200K or 300K mounts, we're talking like 40-60 ski mounts average, every single day, for six months of the year, working seven days a week.

If you only worked five days a week, and 100K mounts, we're talking 31 mounts per day - or 60-90 mounts per day at 200K or 300K lifetime mounts...

That sounds like slight exaggeration to me - but what do I know?

You are so literal! That 100,000's number was obviously a tongue-and-cheek number pulled out of my ass. 1000 oaks was bragging that he had lots of experience, well so do I.
Bottom line, I've mounted way more bindings than you have. So there.

[1000-oaks]

^ My experience is nothing compared to yours, lol, I'm just an OCD DIY'er that's a gear whore. Mounting myself means more money left over to try more deals on skis.

[AlpiNord]

You are so literal! That 100,000's number was obviously a tongue-and-cheek number pulled out of my ass. 1000 oaks was bragging that he had lots of experience, well so do I.
Bottom line, I've mounted way more bindings than you have. So there.

This might be a good question for Dr Science, because

"He knows more than you do":

[ntblanks]

^ You can buy chopped fiberglass from boat repair supply shops, in any length you want. Don't get it in your shirt though.

For those using chopped fiberglass to reinforce fill holes, what length cut are you using? Is 1/8" short enough?

[XXX-er]

I have always cut them at 1/2 inch my reasoning being I want to make them long enough but I will still be able to cram it easily in the hole, mix it up well with slow set try to get the FG wetted out BUT not too resin rich

cram a bunch in the hole, run the screw in till you know its just about to spin & leave it to cure overnight, if you can crank it down the next day its no longer a spinner , IME the epoxy will not have bonded to the screw yet

if you need to loosen a screw that has been epoxied use a little heat on the screw head in fact at the first sign you can't get a screw out use some heat before you strip the head cuz you don't know what it was mounted with

[ntblanks]

thanks, man. I'm actually thinking about filling old holes here, not for reusing holes for new mounts. may not have been clear on that. for strength purposes seems that shorter would be better (up to a point) as it would settle in at lots of angles, not mostly vertical with the hole orientation.

[XXX-er]

its a print medium

I don't think i would use the FG strands for filling holes, the plastic plugs work well but i didnt have any so I found a big bag of bamboo BBQ skewers in the kitchen and they are the perfect diameter

cut em to length beforehand is easier, if they will show coloring the ends/area with a felt pen to approximate the top sheet color will make them less noticable, epoxy them in

[Bunion 2020]

If you are just filling holes I have found that golf tees work well.

I mix epoxy, add to the holes (using bamboo skewers oddly enough) and the knock in the tees, once the epoxy cures just knock off the remaining tee and if you are really OCD you can clean them up with a sharp chisel.

[PeachesNCream]

cut em to length beforehand is easier, if they will show coloring the ends/area with a felt pen to approximate the top sheet color will make them less noticable, epoxy them in

I do bamboo skewers as well but I found it easier to stick the whole stick in there until it hits the bottom. Then saw it off with a super thin blade and top with epoxy. I'm sure both techniques work well