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  1. #76
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    Nov 2008
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    3,093
    Quote Originally Posted by buttahflake View Post
    Do you have a thing for foam core skis?
    Yeesh
    Paulownia, bamboo, and poplar ain't maple, but it's hardly old school foam.

  2. #77
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    Sep 2015
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    151
    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    I've done hundreds of thousands of mounts in my lifetime (25 years full time seasonal ski mounter)
    So, lets do that math on that.
    100,000 [you used plural, meaning more than 100,000 mounts, but we'll go with the bare minimum - 100K mounts]
    Lets assume you work 7 days a week, for six months every year - mounting skis, non-stop, for 25 years.

    That's 180 days per year, for 25 years -- so 4500 days.
    100,00 divided by 4500 days is a bit more than 22 mounts per day, EVERY SINGLE FREEKING DAY for half the year?

    And if we say it's 200K or 300K mounts, we're talking like 40-60 ski mounts average, every single day, for six months of the year, working seven days a week.

    If you only worked five days a week, and 100K mounts, we're talking 31 mounts per day - or 60-90 mounts per day at 200K or 300K lifetime mounts...

    That sounds like slight exaggeration to me - but what do I know?

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    499
    I remember lou dawson over at wildsnow doing a test of epoxy used for binding mounts...appeared to be no negative affect on the internals of the ski and/or foam in the core... just sayin'. And thanks for that little tech tip DIYsteve...

    "My point is that the epoxy soaks into the core around the screw, creating a very tough resin/wood "plug" surrounding the screw. (This is why I turn skis bases up while the epoxy sets.)"

    I've certainly experienced this after backing out epoxied screws and had to redrill new holes for a successive mount due to the fucked upness of the holes. I guess another approach would be just use the 'a little dab will do ya' approach and just use a bit of epoxy to basically seal the hole and not a syringe's worth of product to fill the hole? (like I did that resulted in the 'plug') But yeah, flip the ski upside down while epoxy cures. Good one.


    https://www.wildsnow.com/598/epoxy-b...ntry-ski-core/
    What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    499
    You know, my carpet tape experiment got me thinking...what about bonding plastic mount plates permanently onto ski topsheets for binding mounts? You can drill as many holes as you want in the plastic so you can move the binding fore/aft for changing mount point for different conditions/preferences.

    Would be cool to get some feedback from some true engineer types about the viability of this system for long term use. Lots of variables to consider for sure, but, if it works, could be a game changer for a finicky dude such as myself where i'm always mounting, remounting cause i wanna tweak a ski's sweet spot. Never mind the aspect of using one binding for a ski quiver without having to dick around with quiver killers...great concept but it's a dick around to install them on every ski.

    I'm also guessing, gut feel here...if you use the correct adhesive for the attachment of mounting plate to ski topsheet, a guy could use a hot air gun to loosen the bond and re and re said mounting plates (kinda like heating binding screws to remove in epoxied mounts)...just in case u.v. eventually degrades the plastic or the holes strip from multiple mounts/remounts, for example. Or, maybe use drilled out aluminum plates for better long term durability and by swiss cheesing it, get some weight savings? Dunno if the difference in materials of alu/topsheet would cause attachment failure due to different heating/cooling, expansion/contraction properties...hopefully some engineers can chime in.
    What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
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    11,024
    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    what about bonding plastic mount plates permanently onto ski topsheets for binding mounts?
    It'd need to be the right kind of plastic, maybe very high quality nylon, and even with that the pullout strength will be nowhere near a proper mount in a ski core. Those female threads in your cutting board (likely HDPE) will eventually fail if you ski long and hard on them. I know because I've made shift plates from HDPE and all of them eventually failed. They work for awhile -- i.e., long enough for binding placement experimentation -- but eventually the female threads will enlarge and the screws will get sloppy. My DIY shift plates made of Delrin (nylon) sheet held up better. I also machined shift plates from 6061 Al alloy, which were bomber.

    Voile made a nylon 4-hole tele to Dynafit adapter for skis with 4-hole tele inserts (e.g., some old Voiles, APs). As I recall, Voile spec'd it to be screwed one time only.

  6. #81
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    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
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    4,128
    Regarding bonding mounting plates to skis, I doubt the ski would last very long. Ski makers don't intend the topsheet to carry all the loading of skiing, and it probably wouldn't take long before you'd have a delam.

  7. #82
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    Nov 2007
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    Eburg
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    ^ ^ ^ Agree. I interpreted him as having the bonding done in the ski factory

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    151
    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    It'd need to be the right kind of plastic, maybe very high quality nylon, and even with that the pullout strength will be nowhere near a proper mount in a ski core. Those female threads in your cutting board (likely HDPE) will eventually fail if you ski long and hard on them. I know because I've made shift plates from HDPE and all of them eventually failed. They work for awhile -- i.e., long enough for binding placement experimentation -- but eventually the female threads will enlarge and the screws will get sloppy. My DIY shift plates made of Delrin (nylon) sheet held up better. I also machined shift plates from 6061 Al alloy, which were bomber.
    All really interesting, from an "academic" POV.

    As for removal - epoxy probably works here. The transition temp from "glass" to more plasticity is ~140F - that doesn't mean complete melt at 140F - but that's the transition point.

    I inline speed skate and many of the professional models of CF/fiberglass boots are engineered to be heated in an oven at 200F or so, [or boiling water, in a bag] - at those temps, the material of the shell becomes pretty pliable and can be punched and formed to provide an incredible level of fit.

    While all the comments about the top-sheets pulling off, are likely correct, I'd guess you could peel off something glued down with epoxy by pouring boiling water over it and slowly lifting it.

    @1000-oaks - I thought it was you, or someone who did a cheap dyna-duke plate style thing with BF inserts and sawing up a cutting-board, attaching that to the BF inserts, and then mounting to the plastic plate...

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    T-town, CO. USA
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    2,035
    Quote Originally Posted by 2FUNKY View Post
    Please explain this.
    Epoxy very often fuses the screw threads to the core material. Not all the time, but enough for me to realize that epoxy is overkill and to not even risk it.
    I hate pulling out binding screws that no longer have any threads showing because they are caked with a mix of solidified epoxy and core material.
    Do what you want with your skis though...
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    499
    Thanks for the feedback guys, i've taken notes. And yes, I was thinking about a diy job, not factory installed, sorry for the ambiguity. As for topsheet delam over the long term, yeah, that is one of the variables under consideration...sooo, I guess I'll have to sacrifice a pair of old junkers as a test piece.

    The obvious solution would be to simply screw down some mounting plates into various skis, but, again, just wondering if it's viable to bypass that laborious step by simply using an adhesive. If I go through with the project, i'll start a thread of the long term test and report results.
    What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,708
    Velcro!

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

  12. #87
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    Dec 2007
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    T-town, CO. USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    So, lets do that math on that.
    100,000 [you used plural, meaning more than 100,000 mounts, but we'll go with the bare minimum - 100K mounts]
    Lets assume you work 7 days a week, for six months every year - mounting skis, non-stop, for 25 years.

    That's 180 days per year, for 25 years -- so 4500 days.
    100,00 divided by 4500 days is a bit more than 22 mounts per day, EVERY SINGLE FREEKING DAY for half the year?

    And if we say it's 200K or 300K mounts, we're talking like 40-60 ski mounts average, every single day, for six months of the year, working seven days a week.

    If you only worked five days a week, and 100K mounts, we're talking 31 mounts per day - or 60-90 mounts per day at 200K or 300K lifetime mounts...

    That sounds like slight exaggeration to me - but what do I know?
    You are so literal! That 100,000's number was obviously a tongue-and-cheek number pulled out of my ass. 1000 oaks was bragging that he had lots of experience, well so do I.
    Bottom line, I've mounted way more bindings than you have. So there.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  13. #88
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    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    4,128
    ^ My experience is nothing compared to yours, lol, I'm just an OCD DIY'er that's a gear whore. Mounting myself means more money left over to try more deals on skis.

  14. #89
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    Oct 2008
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    off on yet another Tangent
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    You are so literal! That 100,000's number was obviously a tongue-and-cheek number pulled out of my ass. 1000 oaks was bragging that he had lots of experience, well so do I.
    Bottom line, I've mounted way more bindings than you have. So there.
    This might be a good question for Dr Science, because

    "He knows more than you do":

    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

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