Style versus substance

**that dude who did that thing** · 10-23-2017, 11:23 AM

Sure, we all know that many of my posts present the perfect example of using such an abrasive style that the substance is quickly buried. This is NOT about that, so I'm going to try my best to not be abrasive, and just tell you what I think I have learned, and see if you agree or can add anything to it.

In the history of the American struggle to secure civil rights and basic political, economic and social equality for all people, various folks have tried lots of different methods. A pretty stark example of that was sen in the late 50's and ealry 60's when Malcolm X and Martin Luther King presented two ends of the spectrum. I believe they were both effective, and that they were more effective BECAUSE OF their contrast. There's good historical evidence that the Eisenhower and Kennedy Administrations both felt that supporting (even if covertly) King was the best way to disarm Malcolm. And when Malcolm was gone, Bobby Seale and Huey Newton served a similar role, allowing King and his successors to earn the "benefit of the white doubt."

Despite these contrasts, even King and the organizaons he founded were repeatedly told that they were seeking "too much too fast," that they were "too confrontational," that "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar." Over and over again, even as they deployed non-violent protest techniques and were beaten and hosed, and attacked by dogs, many in the majority community would tell them they were being too aggressive in their attack on injustice. We are all lucky today that they did not back down, I hope we can alla gree on that.

I mention this history only because I think that it displays early forms of what remains a very modern attempt to quiet minority voices. When women fight for basic equality, they are often called "pushy." When gay people demand fair treatment, some folk will accuse them of coming across as "shrill." And when blacks point out lingering bigotry, they are accused of "playing the race card." And all these folks are told, and have been told for well over 75 years, that if they would just take a more conciliatory tone, and raise their concerns more politely, they would be more effective. They were told that in the 1890s, they were told that in the 1930's, they were told it in the '50s, and the '80's, and they are told the same thing today.

But I think the people who told Bobby Seale and Martin Luther King alike, that they were too aggressive, and the people who told women in the 60's that they should try being more polite in their protests, and the people who are still telling women and minorities today that they should not be so upset and should try to "catch more flies with honey" are not offering useful advice. Instead, they are trying to get someone whose opinions make them uncomfortable to shut up. Just like they wanted them to shut up in the 60's, in the '80's, and last decade.

I think more people should be able to see, since inequality continues today, that telling someone to tone down their rhetoric is not helpful advice, it's a semi-polite equivalent to telling them to shut up. And this is what some folks mean when they get bent out of shape because someone is, once again, a century later, still "tone policing" minority viewpoints. What do you think?

**Conundrum** · 10-23-2017, 11:24 AM

Too many words to read.

**deepsouthmafia** · 10-23-2017, 11:26 AM

Trying too hard.

**bad dancer** · 10-23-2017, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Conundrum

Too many words to read.

agreed

**digitaldeath** · 10-23-2017, 11:28 AM

jesus christ
quit bloviating

**digitaldeath** · 10-23-2017, 11:29 AM

aint nobody gonna read this bs

**Conundrum** · 10-23-2017, 11:31 AM

It's like quitting booze or weed for a pre-determined amount of time like 30 days. It's easy to do knowing you can come off the rails on day 31 to celebrate and then you over do it because you're out of practice.

**that dude who did that thing** · 10-23-2017, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by digitaldeath

aint nobody gonna read this bs

That's a big part of my underlying point. But I'm providing the opportunity for folks to prove me wrong.

**mall walker** · 10-23-2017, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by digitaldeath

jesus christ
quit bloviating

qft

**digitaldeath** · 10-23-2017, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by that dude who did that thing

That's a big part of my underlying point. But I'm providing the opportunity for folks to prove me wrong.

Don't write so much how bout

**El Chupacabra** · 10-23-2017, 11:47 AM

tl; dr

STFU

okthxbye

**Art Shirk** · 10-23-2017, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by that dude who did that thing

That's a big part of my underlying point. But I'm providing the opportunity for folks to prove me wrong.

No one cares about your stamp of approval

**GeezerSteve** · 10-23-2017, 11:50 AM

pio, you are no MLK nor Bobby Seale

The objection to your marriage thread was premised on your scolding officiousness, i.e., telling us what we need to do to succeed in life, as if you and only you possession the knowledge of what it takes to have a magically wonderful marriage, and all the rest of us are dumbfucks. MLK and Bobby Seale did not operate that way.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 10-23-2017, 11:50 AM

Jamespious has neither style nor substance.

**TBS** · 10-23-2017, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by that dude who did that thing

What do you think?

I think you need to step away from the fucking keyboard and quit cluttering the board with your inane drivel.

**My Pet Powder Goat** · 10-23-2017, 12:03 PM

At the risk of being redundant:

Shut.

The.

Fuck.

Up.

You're single-handedly making this site intolerable.

Nobody here wants to spend hours reading about how much better you are than everyone else

**TheSilverSurfer** · 10-23-2017, 12:04 PM

Pio, of course you are spot-on but if you think any of these dentist or actually going to listen to you I don't know what to tell you dude

**that dude who did that thing** · 10-23-2017, 12:05 PM

I really thought this was going to take longer than 40 inutes. But it didn't.

I actually TOLD YOU that I thought you guys were more about style than substance, and every last one of you attacked the form of the message (including its messenger) rather than its substance.

**NW_SKIER** · 10-23-2017, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by AaronWright

Jamespious has neither style nor substance.

But he has presence. Large presence.

**Mofro261** · 10-23-2017, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by that dude who did that thing

I really thought this was going to take longer than 40 inutes. But it didn't.

I actually TOLD YOU that I thought you guys were more about style than substance, and every last one of you attacked the form of the message (including its messenger) rather than its substance.

we're all about substance abuse though.

**My Pet Powder Goat** · 10-23-2017, 12:09 PM

I specialize in pithy facetious insults and cat pictures.

People come here to be entertained and distracted; get a fucking clue.

**Kopi_Red** · 10-23-2017, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by AaronWright

Jamespious has neither style nor substance.

QFT

Originally Posted by NW_SKIER

But he has presence. Large presence.

Lol! Too funny!

**Norseman** · 10-23-2017, 12:10 PM

Did someone say substance abuse?

**Art Shirk** · 10-23-2017, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer

Pio, of course you are spot-on but if you think any of these dentist or actually going to listen to you I don't know what to tell you dude

Whether his opinion is "spot-on" or not isn't the point. Here's a friend's study. If you don't read it all and weigh in with approval, I don't know what to tell you dude.