Why all the Caroline Gleich hate?

[AdironRider]

Honnold used the breaking of the speed record on The Nose to announce a new sponsorship with a supplements company. So maybe don’t put him on a pedestal.

Everyone is trying to make a living doing what they love in the mountains. More power to whomever can make it work. I wish I was talented or good looking enough to not have to sit at a desk all day and wish I was out there instead.

A lot fewer people are going to have issues with someone getting sponsored than taking a political stand on something. I mean, she has to know that by putting that out there, 50% of people are going to be like fuck that noise. Her acting all surprised about it and calling it sexism isn't helping the cause.

Anywho, I really don't care that much to keep rolling with this. She should ignore the haters and keep doing her thing.

[SILENCER]

I'd ski with her.

Certainly would learn a ton from her in the process too.

[toast2266]

I agree with most of what she says in that blog post.

But I'd bet a shiny nickel there's a lot more to the story with her failing Avy 3. If not, that's fucked up. But that part has me skeptical.

[TahoeJ]

I agree with most of what she says in that blog post.

But I'd bet a shiny nickel there's a lot more to the story with her failing Avy 3. If not, that's fucked up. But that part has me skeptical.

A lot of guys confuse someone not acting all cocksure with a lack of knowledge or confidence, which is probably why more of them die in avalanches every year. I'm sure there may be more to the story, but the part that was quoted was pretty damning IMO, as far as the instructor's motives and pre-conceptions are concerned.

[Kinnikinnick]

Seems like it’d take more that a comment about her using guides to fail the exam for Level 3. Cause if that were the only fault that was found then it would be an outrage.


http://avyschool.com/event/aiare-level-3/

AIARE 3 Participants are eligible for certification after attaining the minimum passing grade of 70% in the marking categories:

Avalanche hazard management skills 45%
– Recognition 15%
– Analysis 15%
– Response 15%
Technical Skills and Knowledge 55%
– Field weather observations and recording 5 %
– Snowpack observations and tests 20 %
– Operational forecast and analysis forms 10 %
– Professional notebook 5 %
– Final Written Exam 15%

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[doebedoe]

Seems like it’d take more that a comment about her using guides to fail the exam for Level 3. Cause if that were the only fault that was found then it would be an outrage.


http://avyschool.com/event/aiare-level-3/




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If those are the criteria, I don't see how feedback (apparently written feedback) of the following has any merit in the discussion. If this was written feedback to her as (likely only part) of why she didn't pass, she has a right to feel she was treated differently due to her position (and potentially gender):

Feedback she was given per her article:
"If you want to make the transition from pro skier to mountain guide, stop hiring guides and traveling with others that make decisions for you. Put yourself in situations where you are required to put it all together, apply these skills and observations and form your own opinion everyday, and don’t just regurgitate the opinions of others.”

“She talks when she should listen and is strongly defensive from the start. Remember respect is earned and never given. By having such a large social media presence, you set yourself up for added criticism and comment, silence your critics through action and decisions, not words.”

If these two comments were made by her examiners, it throws suspicion on any other legitimate concerns they may have had with her actions in the field. All the categories besides written exam are open to examiners opinion. With these two comments made -- at least one examiner was demonstrably biased.

[MTT]

I am going to end it

[toast2266]

If those are the criteria, I don't see how feedback (apparently written feedback) of the following has any merit in the discussion. If this was written feedback to her as (likely only part) of why she didn't pass, she has a right to feel she was treated differently due to her position (and potentially gender):

Feedback she was given per her article:
"If you want to make the transition from pro skier to mountain guide, stop hiring guides and traveling with others that make decisions for you. Put yourself in situations where you are required to put it all together, apply these skills and observations and form your own opinion everyday, and don’t just regurgitate the opinions of others.”

“She talks when she should listen and is strongly defensive from the start. Remember respect is earned and never given. By having such a large social media presence, you set yourself up for added criticism and comment, silence your critics through action and decisions, not words.”

If these two comments were made by her examiners, it throws suspicion on any other legitimate concerns they may have had with her actions in the field. All the categories besides written exam are open to examiners opinion. With these two comments made -- at least one examiner was demonstrably biased.

That sounds to me like feedback not on the reason she failed, but on what she could do to not fail the next time.

Now, that feedback may be inaccurate, sexist to some extent, and ultimately not that constructive, but I sorta doubt that it's actually the reason she failed, even if that's how she interpreted it.

I don't know. I wasn't there, and I'm not going to criticize her. But I'm also pretty hesitant to criticize the instructor for the same reason; I wasn't there, and I don't know the context or background of the discussion.

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[skifishbum]

I agree with most of what she says in that blog post.

But I'd bet a shiny nickel there's a lot more to the story with her failing Avy 3. If not, that's fucked up. But that part has me skeptical.

if she were a slowboarder das cunt would already have that avvy instructor/evaluator fired
1st ive heard about guides but i dont #fanboifollow anybody or care to much who skis what with who
shit you coulds have tighty tysen hump ya up and ya still skied some classic wasatch goods and ill give her props for that
i dont use guides cause they tend to want to be paid
avvy 3 is quite a significant time and money investment and some of ya seem to be slightly confusing bad ass mountainer with the snow science skills needed to pass avvy 3 or those being inclusive
what if the guides critique fit with her actions in the class that week? is it still preconcieved?
or if ya cherry picked 1 line out a page of good valid critque because its way easier than saying i didnt prepare enough for my cert or have my stuff dialed beforehand with what ever excuse sounds good
like most things truth probably lies in the middle
funny thing is in all my emt wfr aid certs no one really wants to fail anyone and you really have to be pretty bad to fail
well cept the army were you are either a go or a fuckin no go in tasks
and they enjoy fuckin with no gos

[The SnowShow]

Maybe part of it is because Utah is backward politically and socially and many can’t deal with a successful woman who’s very outspoken politically on the left.

[californiagrown]

funny thing is in all my emt wfr aid certs no one really wants to fail anyone and you really have to be pretty bad to fail

So you honestly think that a person with her impressive list of accomplishments in the mountains (and the knowledge, preparation, and skills that were needed), came into that class and underperformed so badly that the instructors had no choice but to fail her?

Seeing as how neither you nor i know what actually happened, and we are just purely speculating, does that seem like the likliest scenario to you?

[XavierD]

Man, can’t seem to go a few months without some new controversy finding this young skier.

[wyeaster]

I agree with most of what she says in that blog post.

But I'd bet a shiny nickel there's a lot more to the story with her failing Avy 3. If not, that's fucked up. But that part has me skeptical.

he probably wanted to fuck her

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[happytimefunbox]

And there it is. The sexism 101.

If mike gleich wrote that it would sound in my head exactly like my 13 yo when he gets his iphone taken away. Actually that is a poor analogy. It would be like he told me he did something really rad like mow the grass and his mom says well your sister helped you pull it off and he comes in hard with the well when the grass is long in the backyard and the sun is hot blah blah blah justifications. Hopefully that helps you understand my mindspace. I imagine that you really just wanted to call someone sexist, which is cool and all and a much needed merit badge for SJW promotion from cubscout to weblow...

even if you are wrong.

You know what they say... when someone is giving you criticism, everything before the “but” is bullshit.

Its okay supahmewn you can call me a sexist too. Im okay with it if it'll make you feel better and get past those whispers about CG's skills. Im pretty sure shes a certified badass. I mean she's has avy 3 certification.... AVY FUCKING 3! She wrote it herself, right there in that horrible article. None of my touring buddies have AVY FUCKING 3 CERTS! I need to seriously consider the heuristic effects of not having an AVY FUCKING 3 CERTIFIED BADASS in my touring party.

LOL!

Its pretty bad when you LOL at yourself right? Asking for a friend..

In all seriousness...

LOL!

Fuck my friend did it again....

...my criticism stands regardless of the qualifiers in front of it. At least to me. YMMV.... You may think otherwise but I think no one who uses our passion for profit, whether man, women, individual, dog, cat, group or corporate entity is above criticism or reproach. If you are going to make your living doing that thing (fack doing much of anything) you should be able to take some of the bad (criticism) with the good ($$$) If you feel the need to pen an article in the lamest outdoor marketing rag there is justifying (aka whyyyyning about) how you did that thing due to percieved slights or criticisms..... well goddamn maybe being the smiling face representing eXtreme ski mountaineering through social media to the rest of the world isn't a career you are cut out for.

But Im just a low tier hygenist turned dentist with some wobbly knees whose past his prime and declining into obscurity. So please dont get too bent out of shape by my ramblings



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Edit to add... i thought she attained avy 3. But she didnt. I really zoned out on that article once the whining got to me. Goddammit sexism really has derailed her accomplishments. I mean if some Wasatch guides are gossiping about it it needs a vigourous response with 63000 reasons why their gossip is sexist and wrong. Right?

[californiagrown]

If mike gleich wrote that it would sound in my head exactly like my 13 yo when he gets his iphone taken away. Actually that is a poor analogy. It would be like he told me he did something really rad like mow the grass and his mom says well your sister helped you pull it off and he comes in hard with the well when the grass is long in the backyard and the sun is hot blah blah blah justifications. Hopefully that helps you understand my mindspace. I imagine that you really just wanted to call someone sexist, which is cool and all and a much needed merit badge for SJW promotion from cubscout to weblow...

even if you are wrong. Its okay supahmewn you can call me a sexist too. Im okay with it if it'll make you feel better and get past those whispers about CG's skills. Im pretty sure shes a certified badass. I mean she's has avy 3 certification.... AVY FUCKING 3! She wrote it herself, right there in that horrible article. None of my touring buddies have AVY FUCKING 3 CERTS! I need to seriously consider the heuristic effects of not having an AVY FUCKING 3 CERTIFIED BADASS in my touring party.

LOL!

Its pretty bad when you LOL at yourself right? Asking for a friend..

In all seriousness...

LOL!

Fuck my friend did it again....

...my criticism stands regardless of the qualifiers in front of it. At least to me. YMMV.... You may think otherwise but I think no one who uses our passion for profit, whether man, women, individual, dog, cat, group or corporate entity is above criticism or reproach. If you are going to make your living doing that thing (fack doing much of anything) you should be able to take some of the bad (criticism) with the good ($$$) If you feel the need to pen an article in the lamest outdoor marketing rag there is justifying (aka whyyyyning about) how you did that thing due to percieved slights or criticisms..... well goddamn maybe being the smiling face representing eXtreme ski mountaineering through social media to the rest of the world isn't a career you are cut out for.

But Im just a low tier hygenist turned dentist with some wobbly knees whose past his prime and declining into obscurity. So please do get too bent out of shape by my ramblings



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Edit to add... i thought she attained avy 3. But she didnt. I really zoned out on that article once the whining got to me. Goddammit sexism really has derailed her accomplishments. I mean if some Wasatch guides are gossiping about it it needs a vigourous response with 63000 reasons why their gossip is sexist and wrong. Right?

Holy cow. Either you dont have much going on during the summer, or someone spoke some truth to you that really struck a nerve.

[Kinnikinnick]

If those are the criteria, I don't see how feedback (apparently written feedback) of the following has any merit in the discussion. If this was written feedback to her as (likely only part) of why she didn't pass, she has a right to feel she was treated differently due to her position (and potentially gender):

Feedback she was given per her article:
"If you want to make the transition from pro skier to mountain guide, stop hiring guides and traveling with others that make decisions for you. Put yourself in situations where you are required to put it all together, apply these skills and observations and form your own opinion everyday, and don’t just regurgitate the opinions of others.”

“She talks when she should listen and is strongly defensive from the start. Remember respect is earned and never given. By having such a large social media presence, you set yourself up for added criticism and comment, silence your critics through action and decisions, not words.”

If these two comments were made by her examiners, it throws suspicion on any other legitimate concerns they may have had with her actions in the field. All the categories besides written exam are open to examiners opinion. With these two comments made -- at least one examiner was demonstrably biased.

Yeah, something is not square here.

The possible fact that she used a guide once or even several times wouldn’t seem to me to be relevant to a final exam. If that was a factor in the scoring then that’s bullshit and she should complain to the governing body. That would be true IMO whether it was a he or she taking the course.

But if on the other hand she failed enough of the various sections of the exam and those comments were just after the fact explanation for why maybe she wasn’t practiced enough to pass the exam that might be different.

We don’t know in the end other that what she says.


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[TahoeJ]

Holy moly. Some people really showing themselves i this thread.

[mall walker]

Holy moly. Some people really showing themselves i this thread.

yeah for real lol. oh no a girl is good at skiing. heavens no

[happytimefunbox]

Holy cow. Either you dont have much going on during the summer, or someone spoke some truth to you that really struck a nerve.

The former

[skifishbum]

So you honestly think that a person with her impressive list of accomplishments in the mountains (and the knowledge, preparation, and skills that were needed), came into that class and underperformed so badly that the instructors had no choice but to fail her?

Seeing as how neither you nor i know what actually happened, and we are just purely speculating, does that seem like the likliest scenario to you?

maybe you stopped reading butts
pretty sure i said i thought the truth lies in the middle somewhere and no i dont think the snippets in the article tell the whole truth nor is caroline ever gonna
bottom line
#nogo

[altacoup]

I’ve known Caroline since she first moved to Utah. I wouldn’t tour with her in avalanche terrain. Lots of probros willing to push it for the shot. I know a bunch of avy 3 certified snow professionals who I wouldn’t tour with in avalanche terrain. Lots of snowpros think they can out think avalanches. Caroline can be devisive with her personality, but truth is she rips harder than most and has more skills than most. So do a lot of snowpros, and they also have attitude. But 99 percent of them are guys. And 99 percent of them, would ski with her in avalanche terrain. I’d be really curious to know who the instructor was. I have no doubt she has enough experience and knowledge to be avy 3 certified. I have no doubt that some who are avy 3 certified are as prone or more so to making mistakes as she is.

[LiveLarger]

Some of the content in this thread, the hatred I see she receives in media/social media etc clearly indicates to me that the US climbing/ski culture is fucked up.

A lot you guys really need to grow up. Drop the "Brooooo culture".

I haven't seen anyone bitching about any males skiers using guides, which they are heavily relying on in every ski segment filmed in the entire history of skiing.

I'm 100% confident Caroline has more mountain knowledge and skis harder than 99% of the people on this very board.

[skifishbum]

I'm 100% confident Caroline has more mountain knowledge and skis harder than 99% of the people on this very board.

in case you haznt noticed with the a few exceptions like CT
this place tends to harsh large fragile pro egos
and they prefer social media platforms where they have way more control over the narrative

[telefreewasatch]

So you honestly think that a person with her impressive list of accomplishments in the mountains (and the knowledge, preparation, and skills that were needed), came into that class and underperformed so badly that the instructors had no choice but to fail her?

Seeing as how neither you nor i know what actually happened, and we are just purely speculating, does that seem like the likliest scenario to you?

My buddy was in the level 3 course that Caroline attended. Said her shit was weak. That pretty much whenever she opened her mouth she didn't know what she was talking about.

Skidog, you saw her after she traversed the ribbon on the Castle? The 3 hour roped traverse? Why even bring skis?

I've always thought McLean's book should not exist. When he came to me in preparing it, I tried hard to stop him. My reasons were:
1) At the time ski mountaineering was the last bastion of no guidebooks. (except Lou Dawson's). It seemed proper to leave some adventure for the up and comers. You know, you get to the top of something and you see 3 more objectives. You gotta figure out how to get there and what to bring, etc.
2) You will entice unprepared people to go places that they ought not go to.
3) THAT IT WOULD BE A CHECKLIST FOR PEOPLE (like Caroline).

Obviously I did not succeed in convincing him not to publish.
Interesting that he didn't know the range very well yet when he published; lots of classics aren't mentioned. Thank god.
Wolverine Cirque is how many of the lines in the book? Like 9 or something? Wolvie is one place.
The Ribbon? The Icicle? How ridiculous to encourage people to bring skis to those two places.

[Meadow Skipper]

My buddy was in the level 3 course that Caroline attended. Said her shit was weak. That pretty much whenever she opened her mouth she didn't know what she was talking about.

Skidog, you saw her after she traversed the ribbon on the Castle? The 3 hour roped traverse? Why even bring skis?

I've always thought McLean's book should not exist. When he came to me in preparing it, I tried hard to stop him. My reasons were:
1) At the time ski mountaineering was the last bastion of no guidebooks. (except Lou Dawson's). It seemed proper to leave some adventure for the up and comers. You know, you get to the top of something and you see 3 more objectives. You gotta figure out how to get there and what to bring, etc.
2) You will entice unprepared people to go places that they ought not go to.
3) THAT IT WOULD BE A CHECKLIST FOR PEOPLE (like Caroline).

Obviously I did not succeed in convincing him not to publish.
Interesting that he didn't know the range very well yet when he published; lots of classics aren't mentioned. Thank god.
Wolverine Cirque is how many of the lines in the book? Like 9 or something? Wolvie is one place.
The Ribbon? The Icicle? How ridiculous to encourage people to bring skis to those two places.

Haters gonna hate.