The new -2017- CAST touring system thread

[phatboy64]

Thanks. I was so focused on the tech toe sliding on and off the mount I didn’t think to check things with the boot locked in. Glad I caught it before taking them out for a spin.

I know there is the recommendation when mounting to get the shoulder screws almost all the way in and then slide in the tech toe and tighten. I may have missed it but it makes sense to have the pins locked in the touring position when doing the final tightening of the shoulder screws

[silaschickeringayers]

I was playing around with the tech toe and noticed that the pins were not clamping the boot tight. It is so loose I can remove the boot without spreading the pins. When I looked closer I can see that the two silver metal tabs near the springs are hitting the shoulder on the tower mounts. I would think I would try to bend them slightly but didn’t want to screw them up. I apologize in advance if this has been covered before.

It is okay to bend the tabs back/inside a bit until you have clearance. We went as tight as we felt could this year to get rid of any play in the toe while touring. It doesn't leave much room for variance in the mount though. Bending them in won't cause any issues and shouldn't take much at all.

As far as inserts go, we've had a lot of folks use QK/BF with no negative feedback there. It seems like as long as the M5 machine screws are snug the countersink keeps them aligned and in place fine. Personally we recommend heli coils and use them fairly rarely, they just seem to be less prone to failure. Pretty much personal preference there. We ski solid wood core skis and have never ripped a binding out, swapping bindings around often.

Sorry to not stay more up to date on here but seems like you're all getting by ok. Cheers everyone. Thanks for the support.

[phatboy64]

It is okay to bend the tabs back/inside a bit until you have clearance. We went as tight as we felt could this year to get rid of any play in the toe while touring. It doesn't leave much room for variance in the mount though. Bending them in won't cause any issues and shouldn't take much at all.

As far as inserts go, we've had a lot of folks use QK/BF with no negative feedback there. It seems like as long as the M5 machine screws are snug the countersink keeps them aligned and in place fine. Personally we recommend heli coils and use them fairly rarely, they just seem to be less prone to failure. Pretty much personal preference there. We ski solid wood core skis and have never ripped a binding out, swapping bindings around often.

Sorry to not stay more up to date on here but seems like you're all getting by ok. Cheers everyone. Thanks for the support.

Thanks for all the support! I took your advice and bent the tabs a bit more, boots drop in fine now and tech toe is tight... all is good!

[HAB]

I'm kind of a weenie about binding ramp, and I'm thinking about making some toe shims to flatten out my CAST setups a little bit. 1/8" (~3.2mm) would work nicely for my needs. If I made a batch, would anybody else be interested? Pricing would be significantly dependent on how many I end up doing but I can quote it out if there's interest.

[mr_pretzel]

I'm kind of a weenie about binding ramp, and I'm thinking about making some toe shims to flatten out my CAST setups a little bit. 1/8" (~3.2mm) would work nicely for my needs. If I made a batch, would anybody else be interested? Pricing would be significantly dependent on how many I end up doing but I can quote it out if there's interest.

That would give you a slightly positive delta angle. The CAST toes are already 2mm higher than the DIN pivot afd(5mm drop).

[HAB]

That would give you a slightly positive delta angle. The CAST toes are already 2mm higher than the DIN pivot afd(5mm drop).

Yeah, I measured it all out last night.

I normally ski P18s with the 5mm shim Look sends them with, so this would get me very close to that. If I'm the only dingus who wants to try this, that's cool, but I do know what I want, personally.

[mr_pretzel]

Yeah, I measured it all out last night.

I normally ski P18s with the 5mm shim Look sends them with, so this would get me very close to that. If I'm the only dingus who wants to try this, that's cool, but I do know what I want, personally.

Cool, just wanted to give you a heads up!

[galibier_numero_un]

This CAST video hit my YouTube feed yesterday. Very cool documentation of how they install inserts in alpine boots.



...Thom

[tomjensen]

What’s the consensus on the release consistency with WTR soles and AFD? Also the shop tech that mounted my bindings recommended not using inserts for the heels and instead having multiple sets of base plates/ brake assemblies. Anyone else go this route? How did you get your hands on the extra parts?

[tdpdx]

What’s the consensus on the release consistency with WTR soles and AFD? Also the shop tech that mounted my bindings recommended not using inserts for the heels and instead having multiple sets of base plates/ brake assemblies. Anyone else go this route? How did you get your hands on the extra parts?

I had this same question with the additional problem of my boots not having a smooth surface for contact with the AFD and emailed CAST, they responded:

We make our WTR AFD to accommodate the height and thickness of the ISO 9523 soles. It definitely works better with the smooth surface for release. On that note we have tested and passed many boots with that ISO 9523 sole. The thing that changes is how sticky that rubber is. Some boots have a hard rubber that still releases well and some have a tacky rubber that needs to adjust the release tension to release properly. We always recommend having your local shop test your bindings to get that correct release setting.

In a later email he told me the solution is usually to just turn your DIN down a bit more.

[tomjensen]

In a later email he told me the solution is usually to just turn your DIN down a bit more.

Ok thanks. I’m thinking I’ll start one setting lower for the toe release

[galibier_numero_un]

WTR should be no issue at all. The contact is plastic to plastic.

It's the rubber sole on a 9523 boot that adds friction.

One additional concern I'd have with a rubber 9523 sole is rocks getting jammed between the rubber lugs and digging into the AFD.

... Thom

[banzai]

What’s the consensus on the release consistency with WTR soles and AFD? Also the shop tech that mounted my bindings recommended not using inserts for the heels and instead having multiple sets of base plates/ brake assemblies. Anyone else go this route? How did you get your hands on the extra parts?

That would make sense if you have skis that require different brake sizes. I would much rather have a couple of heels (as I do) and swap the whole thing if I needed. Its faster than the left-right-left-right pita process of exchanging the dildo, plus the fact you need to set the forward pressure again. I buy my heel assemblies from @Spyderjon .

[tdpdx]

WTR should be no issue at all. The contact is plastic to plastic.

It's the rubber sole on a 9523 boot that adds friction.

One additional concern I'd have with a rubber 9523 sole is rocks getting jammed between the rubber lugs and digging into the AFD.

... Thom

Whoops, I misread tomjensen's concern. I have boots with rubber 9523 soles and my concern was with release from the WTR AFD plate which is what CAST recommended for me.

Ditto on the rock bit, I hadn't though of that, one more thing to check before clicking in.

I'm planning on taking my setup to a shop to get release tested after I get everything mounted.

[galibier_numero_un]

Whoops, I misread tomjensen's concern. I have boots with rubber 9523 soles and my concern was with release from the WTR AFD plate which is what CAST recommended for me.

Ditto on the rock bit, I hadn't though of that, one more thing to check before clicking in.

I'm planning on taking my setup to a shop to get release tested after I get everything mounted.

Yup ... in general, 9523 and WTR are close in shape, from the perspective of the height between AFD surface (the ball of the foot in the case of 9523) and the lip of the toe piece.

There is a range for 9523 boots however, and you might find yourself having to grind off a bit of sole to get into "compliance".

For example, I recall some people reporting a tight fit with the previous generation of Maestrales and some MNC bindings (Wardens). I had no problem with my Mango Maestrales and my Wardens, but I was at max height on the toe.

... Thom

[XXX-er]

In a later email he told me the solution is usually to just turn your DIN down a bit more.

Did you tell him you post on TGR ?

[tdpdx]

Yup ... in general, 9523 and WTR are close in shape, from the perspective of the height between AFD surface (the ball of the foot in the case of 9523) and the lip of the toe piece.

There is a range for 9523 boots however, and you might find yourself having to grind off a bit of sole to get into "compliance".

For example, I recall some people reporting a tight fit with the previous generation of Maestrales and some MNC bindings (Wardens). I had no problem with my Mango Maestrales and my Wardens, but I was at max height on the toe.

... Thom

Good to know, my boots are Salomon QST 130 pros. The soles are removable, and therefore replaceable, so getting a little grind on is slightly less scary.

If I'm feeling really adventurous, I was thinking about modding a plastic AFD contact plate into the touring soles. Haven't brain-stormed a good way of actually doing this yet though so I'd likely just end up throwing away the $90 for the replacement touring soles.

[galibier_numero_un]

Good to know, my boots are Salomon QST 130 pros. The soles are removable, and therefore replaceable, so getting a little grind on is slightly less scary.

If I'm feeling really adventurous, I was thinking about modding a plastic AFD contact plate into the touring soles. Haven't brain-stormed a good way of actually doing this yet though so I'd likely just end up throwing away the $90 for the replacement touring soles.

I started a mod project to see if I could convert my OG XT 130 Freetours from WTR to an alpine sole. That first year, the Langes didn't have Alpine/ISO 5355 inserts.

I got wrapped around the axle with the project (made it too complicated) and temporarily shelved it. My only motivation was to use the boots at ski demos, and I decided I didn't need any more excuses to be demoing skis

.. Thom

[DigSki]

I got cast mounted up by a shop today (I know, I just come here for winter and don't bring my tools). Three things caught my eye when I got home and did an inspection:
Toe does not sit flush to the ski


Gap between shoulder screw and alpine binder. Without a boot clicked in I can move the toe like a wobbly table.



One of the heels isn't even close to flush with the ski.


I suspect that things aren't flush because they're sitting on old filled holes, but I don't know, file that shit down? Am I right to be concerned about this mount, or are these not problems?

[FullStop]

I got cast mounted up by a shop today (I know, I just come here for winter and don't bring my tools). Three things caught my eye when I got home and did an inspection:
Toe does not sit flush to the ski


Gap between shoulder screw and alpine binder. Without a boot clicked in I can move the toe like a wobbly table.



One of the heels isn't even close to flush with the ski.


I suspect that things aren't flush because they're sitting on old filled holes, but I don't know, file that shit down? Am I right to be concerned about this mount, or are these not problems?

That's a terrible job. You could bring them back and ask them to fix it for free, or just pull off the bindings and shave down the volcanoes with an exacto blade.
I like to clamp my binding to the ski to make sure it's flush when I tighten the screws.

[DigSki]

That's a terrible job. You could bring them back and ask them to fix it for free, or just pull off the bindings and shave down the volcanoes with an exacto blade.
I like to clamp my binding to the ski to make sure it's flush when I tighten the screws.

Oh I'm definitely bringing them back. They didn't give me back the Pivot pedestals either, so I have to grab those. I can't imagine they won't want to fix that workmanship up, but if not maybe they'll let me use their tools so I can do it...we'll see.

Would that terrible job have any sort of performance / safety impact or is it purely cosmetic? Things seem pretty solid when I click in on carpet, but that obviously means next to nothing. I really can't imagine how it wouldn't have a performance impact, the binding wiggles...

[FullStop]

Oh I'm definitely bringing them back. They didn't give me back the Pivot pedestals either, so I have to grab those.

Would that terrible job have any sort of performance / safety impact or is it purely cosmetic? Things seem pretty solid when I click in on carpet, but that obviously means next to nothing. I really can't imagine how it wouldn't have a performance impact, the binding wiggles...

I imagine having them not fully tightened down would make it quite a bit easier to rip the bindings out. You might have some issues with the tech toes too. But I'm no tech, just a home ski driller, I wouldn't ski them like that myself though.

[mr_pretzel]

Yeah the front toes are probably not fully torqued, the toe tolerance is pretty tight when they are mounted correctly. I wouldn't worry about the rear end of the front plate being up in the air though, as long as everything under the screws is flush.

Sucks the shop let you down, hopefully they make it right!

[galibier_numero_un]

I wouldn't ski on them until this was sorted out. When a binding isn't flush to the ski, you're inviting trouble.

The question is whether a shop that screwed up so badly in the first place, can be trusted to fix their work.

When I started scrolling, I expected the main question to relate to the toe hole alignment, knowing how precise it has to be.

Then, I got to your last picture, with them not being able to do something so simple as get the heel flush to the ski.

I'd start the dialog off with that, and frankly wouldn't be comfortable unless I could watch the work being done.

... Thom

[HAB]

The AFD not sitting 100% flush is pretty normal, but the rest of that is a mess. Get them to clean up the old volcanoes and torque everything down properly.