MTN Lab forward lean adjustment?

[Skerby]

I bought the MTN Lab boot about a month ago and have since spent around 10 days touring and skiing the boot. The boot walks great and has plenty of support fr my 6' 170lb body.

My only complaint is about the forward lean angle of this boot, I feel like it is leaned about 1-2.5 degrees too forward. My last boot was an FT seth with both the lean spacer and the spoiler removed, after removing those two pieces i felt like i could ski the boot way more comfortably and Im basically looking to do the same thing to my mtn labs.

For reference I am skiing a 179 K2 Pettitor set 1.5cm back from true ski center, which puts me dead in the middle of the sidecut. Not a whole lot of ski in front of me so balance is fairly important.

Anyways, I would appreciate any input here, even if you think its the fault of my skiing technique.

[skimaxpower]

What bindings?

It sounds like you may be experiencing side effects of the Dynafit ramp angle. More info at:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...its-ramp-angle

[Skerby]

I've only skied them in a kingpin so far. Idk about that ramp angle, I recently got a pair of Lord toe pieces so I can try em out in my resort skis and see how that goes.

[Skerby]

Yea! I looked it up and the Kingpin toe piece is lower than the heel, increasing this forward ramp. I used JB weld to seal the mounting screws in the skis; if I can get them out I will add a shim under the toe piece.

Thanks for the tip boss.

[gregL]

The toe pins on every tech binding are lower than the heel pins in ski mode; the Kingpin has less "ramp" than most (according to Lou Dawson, 9.7mm). Many people feel that a differential of around 12-13 millimeters gives a "flat" feeling (meaning similar to their alpine bindings, which are also not actually flat), so the "tippytoe" feeling often associated with tech setups is less than on many other bindings.

FWIW, ramp angle is not the same as forward lean . . .

[LeeLau]

Just a quick note that the Mtn Lab forward angle is 15 degrees which isn't all that much. You can mod if you want but it requires drilling so try that ramp adjustment on your Kingpin toepiece. Spoilers might add a bit too as would shimming under the foot. I'm surprised you thought it was too far forward as there are many boots (eg Vulcan Maestrale) that are 17 and 16 deg forward

http://www.newschoolers.com/news/rea...Lab-boots-2016 - here's what the Mtn Lab drilling would entail. It goes into a piece of your boot itself so isnt for the faint hearted

[gregL]

You can mod if you want but it requires drilling so try that ramp adjustment on your Kingpin toepiece.

What drilling are you suggesting, Lee? You could drill out the rivet holding the metal chip in the spine, remanufacture one with the hole further down, and re-install it, but it would only get you another degree or so. Might be a good project for a DIY-minded person. Personally I wouldn't screw around with the external mechanism.

Probably the best bet would be to heat and flare the cuff rearward, assuming the cuff is also Grilamid (I think it is).

[XXX-er]

Does this boot only have one forward lean position, I find it suprising they wouldnt have a metal insert to flip like a lot of other boot makers?

how about building up the tongue of the boot with spenco or getting one of those instaprint tongues to reduce forward lean?

Yea! I looked it up and the Kingpin toe piece is lower than the heel, increasing this forward ramp. I used JB weld to seal the mounting screws in the skis; if I can get them out I will add a shim under the toe piece.
.

a little heat will break the epoxy bond in fact any time a screw won't come out use some heat before you strip the head

[auvgeek]

Skimo.co sells the B&D 4.7 mm kingpin shim, if you don't feel like making your own.

http://skimo.co/bnd-shims

[wyeaster]

xfvvvvfvrvfvv.

[LeeLau]

What drilling are you suggesting, Lee? You could drill out the rivet holding the metal chip in the spine, remanufacture one with the hole further down, and re-install it, but it would only get you another degree or so. Might be a good project for a DIY-minded person. Personally I wouldn't screw around with the external mechanism.

Probably the best bet would be to heat and flare the cuff rearward, assuming the cuff is also Grilamid (I think it is).

It looked to me like you could maybe drill out the metal chip and flip it around to get one degree or so. Like I did say - a huge pain in the ass. Not something I'd suggest tinkering with unless one wanted to risk boot destruction. Maybe i should have caveated way more

[gregL]

It looked to me like you could maybe drill out the metal chip and flip it around to get one degree or so.

No, it has a "hook" on one end and a screw hole in the other. Time consuming to fabricate another one to get one degree more upright.

[XavierD]

No forward lean adjustment - stuck at 15 which is more or less standard right now.
Lange's come at 12 (no spoiler), Atomics come at 15, and can be flipped to 17 which is on the aggressive end of modern stances. I personally like 12. You can alter effective forward lean by installing heel lifts in the boots and an equivalent lift under the toe of the binding.

[Rob Stokes]

Describe what you are feeling that made you feel like you are too far forward in the lean front.

[Skerby]

Describe what you are feeling that made you feel like you are too far forward in the lean front.

The back of the cuff, at the top, digs into my calves. Feel like I have to bend my knees too far and it puts a lot of strain on my quads, the same quads that just pulled me up the hill. Basically struggling to keep the tips afloat in a stance that I consider comfortable.

I feel like the setup is forcing me into the back seat in pow, I have no issues on groomers but I have no interest in groomers. I have more or less adapted to it, I just think 1-2 degrees less lean would make me feel a lot more comfortable.

I chucked the boot into the ski last night to take a look at it and it appears to work out to a pretty flat boot sole all said and done, I would like to take out a degree of stance any way I can however.

You guys think I would have any issues with the B&D shim? Like if my boot sole ended up with a reverse ramp angle(boot toe slightly higher than heel) would that cause any significant problems for me? I am a pretty succesful DIY boy, but these boots are the most expensive piece of ski gear I have ever purchased and Im a little worried about making permanent changes.

[Rob Stokes]

I'd try a b&d shim-it won't hurt anything. Also see a boot fitter for the calf pain, they can mould the liner wider there and maybe even heat the cuff up to make more room......and re-mount your skis like an adult! No wonder you struggle keeping the tips up with a mount at -1.5!

[auvgeek]

You guys think I would have any issues with the B&D shim? Like if my boot sole ended up with a reverse ramp angle(boot toe slightly higher than heel) would that cause any significant problems for me? I am a pretty succesful DIY boy, but these boots are the most expensive piece of ski gear I have ever purchased and Im a little worried about making permanent changes.

You'll be fine. Many people have measured with digital calipers, and the heel-toe delta seems to be right around 9.5 mm. If you're sensitive to ramp (not everybody is), adding a few mm under the toe will make a difference in your stance—do really think you can eyeball a few mm difference in binding ramp?

Heel lifts + 4.7 mm B&D shim should make a difference and are completely reversible, unlike stretching the calf-area or modifying the lean-lock mechanism. Don't forget to buy the required screws, though. The calf issue should go away with heel lifts and if you stop leaning back so much.

If you don't want to see a boot fitter re heel lifts, Sidas makes some easy to install ones.

[Skerby]

I'd try a b&d shim-it won't hurt anything. Also see a boot fitter for the calf pain, they can mould the liner wider there and maybe even heat the cuff up to make more room......and re-mount your skis like an adult! No wonder you struggle keeping the tips up with a mount at -1.5!

B..b..but what about the jibs?!?

j/k, I'll consider remounting and Im gonna order the shims and screws.

Thanks for the help guys!

[XavierD]

The back of the cuff, at the top, digs into my calves. Feel like I have to bend my knees too far and it puts a lot of strain on my quads, the same quads that just pulled me up the hill. Basically struggling to keep the tips afloat in a stance that I consider comfortable.

I feel like the setup is forcing me into the back seat in pow, I have no issues on groomers but I have no interest in groomers. I have more or less adapted to it, I just think 1-2 degrees less lean would make me feel a lot more comfortable.

I chucked the boot into the ski last night to take a look at it and it appears to work out to a pretty flat boot sole all said and done, I would like to take out a degree of stance any way I can however.

You guys think I would have any issues with the B&D shim? Like if my boot sole ended up with a reverse ramp angle(boot toe slightly higher than heel) would that cause any significant problems for me? I am a pretty succesful DIY boy, but these boots are the most expensive piece of ski gear I have ever purchased and Im a little worried about making permanent changes.

Standing in the boot, clicked into your skis without flexing it, where is your Knee relative to the front of your foot. Where is your hip? What does lifting the toe of the boot (put some sort of block/shim under the ski at the toe piece) do to your balance and fore aft alignment?

I would defiantly try a toe shim under the binding.

[LeeLau]

No forward lean adjustment - stuck at 15 which is more or less standard right now.
Lange's come at 12 (no spoiler), Atomics come at 15, and can be flipped to 17 which is on the aggressive end of modern stances. I personally like 12. You can alter effective forward lean by installing heel lifts in the boots and an equivalent lift under the toe of the binding.

That makes sense. Did not think that boots are now coming more upright as am in older Atomic alpines with forward lean of 17 deg. Consider myself more educated

[1000-oaks]

I just put 1/4" shims under my Ion toes after getting tired of the exact same issues, trying them out this weekend.

[Skerby]

I just put 1/4" shims under my Ion toes after getting tired of the exact same issues, trying them out this weekend.

Fill me in! I got the 1/8" shim because Im scared of making big changes lol, I doubt they will be here by this weekend though.

With how much powder we have in the Olympic mountain range right now I would be ok with strapping work boots to 2x4s and just skiing those.

[Dromond]

It was really nice to be able to flip the lean lock on the Mercury to adjust the forward lean. The slot in the cuff plastic looks like it's made to do the same thing, except that as Greg said you'd need a different metal piece and Salomon doesn't seem to provide one despite what Blister mentioned in their review about the boot coming with brackets that could lessen the forward lean by 1 degree. I'll assume that they had a prototype pair that actually did come with those alternate brackets. It's unfortunate that those didn't make it through to the production boot as I would prefer a little less forward lean.

FWIW, while the more upright position of the Mercury and the MTN Lab are both listed as 15, the MTN Lab feels more forward to me than the Mercury. Go figure...

[Pat]

Thanks for all of the input on this. I also have MTN Labs and am getting really frustrated with them. They fit pretty well generally speaking, but I have one major complaint. They don't have ENOUGH forward lean to them. I want more ankle flexion. I've already been to The Custom Foot in Denver three times and am going back again tomorrow. I 3D-printed a ramp to go between the binding and ski. It helped, but not nearly enough. I want significantly more forward lean. Is there any way to get this with these boots? I used to have Falcons and loved how far forward they put me. I'm afraid "modern" boots just have different geometry and I won't be able to really find what I want. I just feel like I'm always in the back seat with the MTN Labs. Anyone have any ideas?

[rod9301]

I'm my experience, you will be more in the back seat with a boot that has a steeper forward lean.

The steep tibia angle will cause your butt to get further back to maintain the cg over the center of the t boot.

With less forward lean, your knees will be straighter.

You can still flex your ankles, but you don't need to do this.

Pull your feet back, using the hamstrings, this will pressure the tips, and bring you forward.

With an open mind, it will not take you long to ski way better the ever.

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