Armada drill size

[HHTELE]

Kind of late in the game to ask, as I recently mounted two.

What is 3.5 x 4.1 x 9.5 ?

Generally speaking, I know what a 3.6 and a 4.1 are for.

[AlpiNord]

Kind of late in the game to ask, as I recently mounted two.

What is 3.5 x 4.1 x 9.5 ?

Generally speaking, I know what a 3.5 and a 4.1 are for.

It's a double step drill bit tip, 9.5mm long, where the diameter starts at 3.5 and steps to 4.1 at the top sheet.

[HHTELE]

Got it.
I drilled through the metal with the 4.1, finished with the 3.6, and this bit does exactly that.

Seems like that makes sense for any metal topsheet. But, I notice Armada recommends this bit, a 3.6 or a 4.1. What would the advantage be of having the 4.1 bore go straight through to the bottom of the hole when using a 4.1?

[Timberridge]

What would the advantage be of having the 4.1 bore go straight through to the bottom of the hole when using a 4.1?

Not having to buy the stepped bit. I've drilled Armadas with metal layers (ARVti) w/ a regular 4.1 and never had an issue.

[AlpiNord]

Got it.
I drilled through the metal with the 4.1, finished with the 3.6, and this bit does exactly that.

Seems like that makes sense for any metal topsheet. But, I notice Armada recommends this bit, a 3.6 or a 4.1. What would the advantage be of having the 4.1 bore go straight through to the bottom of the hole when using a 4.1?

It's more efficient when mounting skis in shops? 4.1 allows the shaft of the screw to pass through a metal, carbon or any topsheet without compressing the material nor creating volcanoes for cleaner finish. A 3.5 or 3.6mm tip allows the screw to compress into the material, unless it is tapped first for cleaner threading.

I thought Armada strictly recommended the stepped bit only, not either 3.6mm or 4.1mm.

Realize that the difference in diameter is a minuscule 0.5mm. A slight wobble in a 3.6mm tip could end up being 4.1mm or whatever. It's sort of like like splitting hairs, but if you tap a 3.6mm hole you may also end up more like 4.1mm.

They both have been industry standards and have worked for eons. Armada dreamed up their bit and it can be argued as being esoteric or their shtick. I don't think it's a bad idea, but for some, unnecessary.

[Timberridge]

^^That's a great explanation. I asked a guy who works at a shop that sold Armadas since they came on the scene. He uses the stepped bit when drilling them now, but before Armada started recommending this bit the shop used the 3.6 or 4.1 as required and never had an issue with it.
I suppose if you bought the 9.5 stepped bit you could use it on all your skis (other than the 7.5 skis) and not have to worry about which size to use.

[Climber Joe]

I've mounted about 50 pairs of my or my friends skis over the years. Always used a 4.1 for metal, 3.6 for non. Found the 4.1 way easier on the screw install, so I started to use a 4.1 on all mounts. I think I only ever spun two screws. And they were both with a 3.6 drill.

I always use marine epoxy, and I've never ripped out a ski.

[Chugachjed]

It's more efficient when mounting skis in shops? 4.1 allows the shaft of the screw to pass through a metal, carbon or any topsheet without compressing the material nor creating volcanoes for cleaner finish. A 3.5 or 3.6mm tip allows the screw to compress into the material, unless it is tapped first for cleaner threading.

I thought Armada strictly recommended the stepped bit only, not either 3.6mm or 4.1mm.

Realize that the difference in diameter is a minuscule 0.5mm. A slight wobble in a 3.6mm tip could end up being 4.1mm or whatever. It's sort of like like splitting hairs, but if you tap a 3.6mm hole you may also end up more like 4.1mm.

They both have been industry standards and have worked for eons. Armada dreamed up their bit and it can be argued as being esoteric or their shtick. I don't think it's a bad idea, but for some, unnecessary.

Considering the soft plywood cores armada uses it makes spinners much more common. FFS the only thing holding your bindings on those things is the topsheet.

[AlpiNord]

Considering the soft plywood cores armada uses it makes spinners much more common. FFS the only thing holding your bindings on those things is the topsheet.

Is this unique to Armada?

[HHTELE]

Armada guide



It's a little weird. The stepped bit seems like the best of both worlds- right size pilot hole in the metal, and good bite into the wood. But, some of their skis use a 4.1,

All good in my world- Did one mount with a 4.1. I bet it holds.
Did one mount drilling a shallow 4.1 pilot, finished with 3.6. Bet it holds.

Don't have a tap- Ran a screw in and out with no binding first, chamfered the hole.

[AlpiNord]

Armada guide



It's a little weird. The stepped bit seems like the best of both worlds- right size pilot hole in the metal, and good bite into the wood. But, some of their skis use a 4.1,

All good in my world- Did one mount with a 4.1. I bet it holds.
Did one mount drilling a shallow 4.1 pilot, finished with 3.6. Bet it holds.

Don't have a tap- Ran a screw in and out with no binding first, chamfered the hole.

Looks like list where the techs and DIYers have to remember that the double step bit is for every Armada but D, Q, U & Z skis. Why the difference?

Regarding the 'use a screw as a tap' approach, the threads of a self-tapping wood or ski screw compresses the material. A tap cuts the material to create the thread path.

[skimaxpower]

If your ski requires a 4.1 bit, one should always use a tap to prevent damaging the metal topsheet.

IMHO, it always goes better if you use a tap regardless of bit size. Tap all holes.

[Chugachjed]

Is this unique to Armada?

Worse even than K2. I've never drilled into another brand that was as consistently soft cored as armada.

[Timberridge]

The stepped bit seems like the best of both worlds- right size pilot hole in the metal, and good bite into the wood. But, some of their skis use a 4.1,

Guessing but on some models there is a top and bottom layer of metal--hence the 4.1 straight up.

Worse even than K2. I've never drilled into another brand that was as consistently soft cored as armada.

I've not experienced that in the 4 mounts I've done on Armadas. But any mfgrs ski with a poplar or paulownia core will be softer than one they make w/ birch or maple.

[wasatchback]

The stepped bit is to prevent the Volcano on the top sheet.

If a ski doesn't have metal it shouldn't be drilled with a 4.1 bit. 3.6 all the way.

If you don't want a volcano press harder on the drill bit and take a little more top sheet off, no volcano. Metal top sheet or not.

I've probably mounted more than 10k pairs of skis in the last 17 years between Volkl and Blizzard. 90% with two sheets of metal. Never tapped one single hole, unless it was for a helicoil.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

If a ski doesn't have metal it shouldn't be drilled with a 4.1 bit. 3.6 all the way.

DPS calls for 4.1 on all there skis.

[#######]

DPS calls for 4.1 on all there skis.

I think all current models have a metal binding plate(s). They're notably visible on all Alchemist models.

[CaliBrit]

The stepped bit is to prevent the Volcano on the top sheet.

If a ski doesn't have metal it shouldn't be drilled with a 4.1 bit. 3.6 all the way.

If you don't want a volcano press harder on the drill bit and take a little more top sheet off, no volcano. Metal top sheet or not.

I've probably mounted more than 10k pairs of skis in the last 17 years between Volkl and Blizzard. 90% with two sheets of metal. Never tapped one single hole, unless it was for a helicoil.

Really depends on the core. I have found that bamboo you HAVE to tap as it is dense.

[CaliBrit]

Worse even than K2. I've never drilled into another brand that was as consistently soft cored as armada.

Maybe some. But not the ones made in the Fischer factory...

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I think all current models have a metal binding plate(s). They're notably visible on all Alchemist models.

Older models with no metal also call for 4.1.