P18 Pivot FKS forward pressure - ignore the indicator?

[Dee Hubbs]

They are heavy, but so are P18’s.

P18 = 1235 g (2.72 lbs) each
PX15 = 1415 g (3.12 lbs) each

[slowroastin]

P18 = 1235 g (2.72 lbs) each
PX15 = 1415 g (3.12 lbs) each

The 180 gram boat anchor may be worth the tradeoff to some in regards to boot size adjustment, simple forward pressure setting and durability.






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[mr_pretzel]

Anyone have any experience with a loose/wiggly 18 din toe pieces? I can wiggle it from side to side

[margotron]

Anyone have any experience with a loose/wiggly 18 din toe pieces? I can wiggle it from side to side

Are the screws tight? the ones that hold it to the ski? Or do you mean it wiggles from the post?

[mr_pretzel]

Are the screws tight? the ones that hold it to the ski? Or do you mean it wiggles from the post?

From the post

[jdadour]

From the post

What is the din set at? If you have the din screw backed out, it will wiggle.

[gwat]

A hair of play is normal.
If you have slop take it apart and check the bushing on the post. (I've never seen one worn out...)

[Vitamin I]

Now that this thread has accepted minor drift away from fwd pressure topics...

Hey FKS experts! Please see missing plastic "plug" in the joint on the right side of photo below:
Just ski it as is? Or unsafe, needs to be retired? Or just plug it with custom-shaped whittled plastic for cosmetics? Or plug it with more structural JB-stick, but in a way that won't lock up the spinning cylinder for adjusting arm length? Or what?


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[revolutionrock]

Brought a pair of Pivots to see if they are any good?
Now that I've mounted the bindings, I've tried to get the forward pressure correct . How much force is required to pivot the turntable when the forward pressure is correct?

I get a good snap when you put the ski boot i the binding and the indicator seems to line up. but how much pivot action is reasonable if you grab the heel piece and try to turn it? The indicator seems kind of inaccurate...

[Muggydude]

Did you read through this thread? The whole thing is about how to set the forward pressure on pivots...

[revolutionrock]

Did you read through this thread? That’s what is discussed...

Yes, I did [emoji846]
I'm unsure about how much and if you should be able to pivot the turntable by moderate force? If you twist the heelpice.

Is it normal that the adjusting rods are rubbing against the ski boot? Not by much..

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[Climber Joe]

Yes, I did [emoji846]
I'm unsure about how much and if you should be able to pivot the turntable by moderate force? If you twist the heelpice.

Is it normal that the adjusting rods are rubbing against the ski boot? Not by much..

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You don't pivot/rotate it to test, you press down the dildo/open the binding till the spring is horizontal to the ski and let go. If the boot snaps back into place you're good, if it pops out its not right.

Try loosening both the wings evenly a bunch, then testing with this method and tightening them both evenly one click at a time till the binding snaps back into place instead of ejecting the boot.

Done.

[jackattack]

Now that this thread has accepted minor drift away from fwd pressure topics...

Hey FKS experts! Please see missing plastic "plug" in the joint on the right side of photo below:
Just ski it as is? Or unsafe, needs to be retired? Or just plug it with custom-shaped whittled plastic for cosmetics? Or plug it with more structural JB-stick, but in a way that won't lock up the spinning cylinder for adjusting arm length? Or what?


.

Cosmetic. Ski it.

Only thing to consider is that it might be more likely to catch on the inside pant leg. Just mount that on the outside edge and you should be good.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

Yes, I did [emoji846]
I'm unsure about how much and if you should be able to pivot the turntable by moderate force? If you twist the heelpice.

Is it normal that the adjusting rods are rubbing against the ski boot? Not by much..

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Hey, yeah "moderate force". So you're not cranking it but a little bit of effort.

basically I adjust the forward pressure till the dildo snaps up, super. But then I lift up and down hard on the boot and watch my brake arms to see if any movement. I have found I want the fp dialed in to the point just past where I would see movement in the brake arms and the dildo takes a firm touch to rotate it.

look at pivots in the lift line. You will often see heels with huge slop when skier unweights a leg. That's not what you want but nobody's dying on these either.

hope that helps a bit.

[revolutionrock]

I haven't skied with the pivots yet. What worries me is that the pivots seems to leave marks in my ski boots (tecnica cochise). Don't know if the cochise plastic is known to be soft? Too much pressure on these points when clicking the boot in?

[Vitamin I]

I haven't skied with the pivots yet. What worries me is that the pivots seems to leave marks in my ski boots (tecnica cochise). Don't know if the cochise plastic is known to be soft? Too much pressure on these points when clicking the boot in?

Have a look at my earlier post in this thread at https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...09#post4975309

That point, and also...When fiddling/adjusting these bindings, I'm guessing you want the DIN already set to your final setting first. (I.E. Don't have the DIN set lower during fiddling/adjusting, or else the dildo might be moving around within its elastic range more than it will during actual skiing, yielding misleading observations during fiddling.)

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[revolutionrock]

When I adjusted the forward pressure I used the method by looking at the skibrakes for movement when pulling up/down on the ski Boot. And when there is no moment in the brakes this is too much forward pressure because of the marks on the boots..

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[Vitamin I]

When I adjusted the forward pressure I used the method by looking at the skibrakes for movement when pulling up/down on the ski Boot. And when there is no moment in the brakes this is too much forward pressure because of the marks on the boots..

Maybe someone else with more FKS experience will chime in.

Until then... Without knowing the optimal solution, I know I would put highest priority on preserving my boots. So I would decrease forward pressure until it stopped chewing dents into my boots, and then maybe I'd increase DIN so that the heel would stay down (instead of the heel moving up into its elastic range and letting the brakes move down to contact the snow). I am not a fan of the large elastic travel distance in the FKS design---not sure why pretty much everyone seems to consider it a good thing.

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[revolutionrock]

Hi!
I have now set the forward pressure so that the heelpice leaves no marks/dents I the boot. Now I get movement in the brakes when pulling the boot up/down (not much play).

Maybe this is too lose but it the setting that's leave no dent in the boots... [emoji58]
Feels like the cochise 130 have softer plastic (and maybe the rubber sole in the heel makes the boot little higher, not by much?)

Thanks again for your input.

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[auvgeek]

So I would decrease forward pressure until it stopped chewing dents into my boots, and then maybe I'd increase DIN so that the heel would stay down (instead of the heel moving up into its elastic range and letting the brakes move down to contact the snow).

I'm not the most experienced person here, but, IME as detailed earlier in this thread, increased DIN can't make up for lack of fwd pressure. At 5'11" and 165#, I have walked out of FKS in certain situations with the DIN at 11 with too little forward pressure. I have also successfully skied a pair of bindings with the DIN turned all the way down for the summer for two days, but the forward pressure set correctly. (They worked fine at speed, but released when I tried to turn in pow at very slow speeds when the skis were submerged.) As always, YMMV but I'd be careful of decreasing the forward pressure. Grilamid lowers get chewed up more easily -- it's not just the Cochise with that issue.

I am not a fan of the large elastic travel distance in the FKS design---not sure why pretty much everyone seems to consider it a good thing.

Why is that? (I'm assuming you're familiar with the argument for lots of elastic travel so I won't repeat it.)

[revolutionrock]

Well, the forward pressure isn't super loose. But I do get some movement in the brakes when pulling the boot up/down

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[revolutionrock]

Is it known that some boots don't go well with pivots?
I have pivot dual wtr 14, last year model.
And tecnica cochise 130 2017/2018

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[BC.]

This is a hot topic and much discussed. If u go through threads, there is some great advice to sift through to gain confidence.

With that said...I just recently installed some white Pivot 18’s to my Wren108’s.....and can honestly say...the indicator is not lined up.....and after playing around with it...it still isn’t lined up....

Having installed hundreds of Pivots at my shop over the years, I feel confident it’s correct because of all the tips and advice given in the Pivot threads....

*It does amaze me though that Look hasn’t addressed this as a problem....The Pivot is the only binding on the market that has such a finicky forward pressure...in a high volume shop...it definitely is more time consuming to get it “right”....

[slowroastin]

When putting my boot in to test the release I found my 14’s release freely. My 18’s tend to catch the toe of the boot and it takes an extra push to release. The 18’s seem to be having issue with toe height of my Lupo TI’s.


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[FlimFlamvanHam]

*It does amaze me though that Look hasn’t addressed this as a problem....The Pivot is the only binding on the market that has such a finicky forward pressure...in a high volume shop...it definitely is more time consuming to get it “right”....

Sales tell them otherwise: that they can leave it as is.

I would guess the design will not allow a FP indicator to ever be accurate. I mean really, that white tab and black relief works just like any other FP indicator on any other binding.

But I assume because when one adjusts for BSL the distance of the heel piece relative to the toe is altered (like any other binding) but also the angle of the struts holding the heel dildo also changes (unlike any other binding). My point is, adjusting for BSL and/or forward pressure incorporates an extra variable with the Pivot design.