Sharing passes

[Timberridge]

Not to justify scamming tickets or passes but just to point out the finer point of the economics. First of all ski area costs are basically fixed. Thus there is no direct loss to a ski area if scammed, unlike a store that has merchandise stolen and thus has lost not only the retail price but the wholesale price that it paid for inventory. It is lost revenue, but not a direct cost to the resort.

Secondly the loss to resorts of resold tickets is even less. Someone has paid for the privilege and they are just transferring that privilege. I'm sure there are laws protecting them in both cases but its not like they are doing financial harm, just not making as much as they might.

For what its worth I skinned up many years ago a couple times to upper lifts in my student days when I could not afford a season pass or day ticket.

So its ok to steal services but not products? Walmart has fixed costs too. At what point does your morality meter tick into the red zone?

[bigdude2468]

Alta for one offers a 10 day card that is transferable. It is good for 10 days, can be used once per day. Price is $559 /$57 per day which is a good deal. The unused days do not carry over to next season. They also have another 10 day card, more expensive that carries over to the following season.

[Kinnikinnick]

The lift ticket or pass contract--only usable by the purchaser--is no more one sided than other consumer contracts. Why isn't an airline ticket transferrable? Why does just about every consumer services company require binding arbitration? Why can your cable company drop a popular station but charge you if you terminate early? I suppose ski resorts could offer transferrable tickets and passes, but they would cost a lot more. Some years ago Alpine Meadows (pre KSL) offered a family ticket--priced more than a single ticket but less than two, that allowed parents with infants to split the day.

So its ok to steal services but not products? Walmart has fixed costs too. At what point does your morality meter tick into the red zone?

Again, I don't justify it and wouldn't do it again myself now that I can clearly afford a pass or tickets (and have more to lose by being prosecuted should I be caught), but my point was that there is no significant marginal cost to the ski area of the scammer. They don't have to hire extra workers, invest in additional infrastructure, buy additional inventory, etc. They only thing they lose is the potential for additional revenue.

Re: Walmart - if someone steals a video game from Walmart they actual have already paid the wholesale price so they actually incur a loss from the slippage.

But yeah - its "stealing" in the moral and legal sense of the word.

I guess where I draw the line on what I'd actually consider stealing is the resale/reuse of tickets/passes. Someone has paid for the right to use the lifts and if they give or sell to someone else that seems fair to me. Clearly it isn't legal and the area would love to charge an additional person but economically I don't see it that way.

[Bunion 2020]

And to add, this isn't Polyasshat where everyone has to take outrage at being in disagreement. We are all entitled to an opinion without getting all shitty about it.

[old goat]

^^ BTW - I wasn't advocating the general behavior as you seemed to imply earlier, I was just saying the vails of the world sacrificed the moral high ground by charging so much *from the POV* of the person scamming.

Got it.

I guess where I draw the line on what I'd actually consider stealing is the resale/reuse of tickets/passes. Someone has paid for the right to use the lifts and if they give or sell to someone else that seems fair to me.

Lift tickets should be like Netflix

[shroom]

affordable? you jest

[FLS]

Alta for one offers a 10 day card that is transferable. It is good for 10 days, can be used once per day. Price is $559 /$57 per day which is a good deal. The unused days do not carry over to next season. They also have another 10 day card, more expensive that carries over to the following season.

Seems like a good deal to me.

[Marshall Tucker]

Ya know, it would have never occured to me to "scam." just wouldn't. Then at the local hill, another mag tells me "knowbody from x-ville ever buys a ticket, they just wear last weeks, nobody ever checks." Hmmm. so i was at another hill couple states away a year later. it was about 3 in the afternoon and jr and I decide to ski. fuck, I don't want to pay $50 to ski an hour. I had my ticket from yesterday so i mosey over to the lift after buying jr a ticket and off he goes. Nobody checks everythings fine. 2-3 runs in I stupidly ski a roped-off section about 100 yards and a hill worker stops me, yells a bit for being in the roped off area, then checks my ticket and cusses me out for 5 minutes. just my luck, the one time i tried i got busted.

[PNWbrit]

but its not like they are doing financial harm, just not making as much as they might.

'plain that again would ya?

[neufox47]

Im pretty easy going but it really bugs me when resorts treat me like a thief until I prove otherwise. I can be a dick to ticket checkers when they get aggressive. I have been asked twice to take off my goggles, I reply with "No". One time the guy wanted to make an issue about it so I told him to call the police and kept moving. On a bad day, the name question gets to me too.
"What's your name?"
"Sir"

[MataPaw]

Dodge Ridge still offers the parent ticket. Was at bachelor over Christmas don't know while you couldn't do it there with a day pass. Used to lap gun barrel at heavenly when it snowed big in the morning then sell the pass for the afternoon, Was a liftiy at snowmass. There definitely was a reward for finding a borrowed pass. But imo, skiing is an inherently a dirtbag and/or solo sport and people find a way to get it done. Brown bag lunch. Ski swap. Hitchhike, skin, sacrifice, etc. If you want it bad enough it comes.

[teledad]

Once had a stranger offer me his day ticket as I was walking across the parking lot at Squaw with my kids. It was around 9:30AM in late April, he'd taken one run on frozen boilerplate, decided to leave, and was pissed off they wouldn't give him a refund. This is after they had switched to RFID so no need to mess around with cutting wickets. I happily took the ticket, saved the ~$100, and had a great time once the snow warmed up a little.

[neufox47]

Solid strategy. Lifties are pretty mellow around BCC. Otherwise I'd probably be working a strategy to dissuade them from diligent enforcement.

Yea, I mean thats two times in a lot of skiing. And I agree the vast majority of lifties are aren't doing this. Sometimes though those bounties seem to get people though.

[guroo270]

I'm against the practice. However, it has been my impression that for the average person (not the Martin Shkrelis and Donald Trumps of this world) financial moral standards increase in direct proportion to income. It's a lot easier being honest when you can afford it.

I'm not so sure about that. There's a great deal of evidence to the contrary.

I think many ski resorts have lost any moral high ground with how much they're charging for day passes.

Strangely, both of these statements are true. Common man vs. %1ers.

[9400_south]

I've wondered if Alta does the same since they only charge you $10. It would be pretty easy to "forget" your pass, get a $10 day ticket, then "find" your pass. Not something you could do every day, but potentially useful to hook up a friend, or sell it in the lot. They probably disable it though, or if the day ticket and your pass both scan into the system that day they get flagged. At this point you kind of have to assume they've thought of stuff like this, but who knows.

I had my free forgotten pass day at the Bird recently, but with an altabird pass that I purchased from Alta. They had to call Alta by phone to verify that I had the pass in the first place, and he also confirmed with them that they'd "black out" my pass for the day.

[GeezerSteve]

Strangely, both of these statements are true. Common man vs. %1ers.

My personal experience confirms both. Years ago when I was a dirtbag pinhead I did the split ring thing, sometimes sharing with a bud, sometimes selling cheap after skiing the morning. The statutes of limitations have run for those offenses. I've paid for all my tickets/passes since as a 10%er. It's all about the marginal value of money. I'm 2 years away from Senior pricing.

[skifishbum]

my favorite scammer story involves solis chief lifty and another lifty bustin a couple dudes with theft of services the next day
we show up in the am and both the village and moonunit are plastered with a hundred stickers in retaliation

[TahoeJ]

Here's a slight twist on this conversation: how about the pricing of kid's tickets and how ridiculous it's become? Kids 7 and older for most resorts around Tahoe (for some reason Vail keeps it family friendly in CO but goes after every penny they can in Tahoe). After I registered my daughter a number of years back it occurred to me I could have said she was a year younger.

[GeezerSteve]

Answer: Selling alcohol is a major profit source for most ski areas, sometimes surpassing lift ticket revenue. Kids don't drink.

[fatnslow]

Most ski areas make their real profit profit with food and beverages. Margins on fountain drinks, tap beer and fries are where it's at and mountain department and ski school is considered more of a service center.

[TahoeJ]

The big resorts are making plenty with the ski schools. Most of the ones in Tahoe are around $200 per day now.

[FLS]

Ridiculous, my little hill wants $8+ for a (non pint) cup of beer, throw a tip and you're knocking on $10 for a beer. Gee, should I by 2 beers at the hill or should I stash a 12 for less?

[Pegleg]

Im pretty easy going but it really bugs me when resorts treat me like a thief until I prove otherwise. I can be a dick to ticket checkers when they get aggressive. I have been asked twice to take off my goggles, I reply with "No". One time the guy wanted to make an issue about it so I told him to call the police and kept moving. On a bad day, the name question gets to me too.
"What's your name?"
"Sir"

This is the exact opposite of being "easy going". Do you also yell at the airport check-in counter person when they ask to see your ID before boarding a flight, and won't just trust that you're the person named on the ticket? Do you refuse to buy from websites that require you to enter the code on the back of your credit card, instead of just trusting that the card you're using is yours?

[detrusor]

A question.

If they make more more bet on beers, sodas and fries, wouldn't it compute to slash ticket prices to encourage more spending on higher margin items?

I'm pretty fucking reluctant to drop 80-100 bucks for lunch after being ass raped for the lift pass. PC is over $130/day. Not for Jackson or whistler or st Anton or chamomix. But park city for Christ sakes

[Dantheman]

PC is over $130/day. Not for Jackson or whistler or st Anton or chamomix. But park city for Christ sakes

But they have 7,300 skiable acres! The most in the country, it's YUDGE!


Yeah, it's absurd. DV too. I love skiing DV...but only for free.