Sharing passes

[snoqpass]

Do those web sites charge you to view them? Most ads don't pay until someone clicks on them

[abraham]

I was talking to one of the Extremely Canadian guides this past weekend about a similar thing. WB will flag it if a guide or ski school person rides a lift with the same person three or more times. If the guide/ski school person isn't on the clock that day, they get in some serious trouble.

That doesn't seem that Canadian

So they can't ski with friends or family who are in town? That seems overly strict. And is the scanner right at the lift it how does the company know the chair was shared?

[Bronco]

There was a guy at Bridger who used a girl's pass for a long, long time. He wore a wig at first, then really got into it and cross-dressed some days. When he hiked the ridge he'd unzip his jacket and be wearing a bra or whatever. It was hilarious, because he was ripped and strong as hell.

Sounds like there's a little more going on than just a disguise, not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Timberridge]

Sounds like there's a little more going on than just a disguise, not that there's anything wrong with that.

His name is Jessica now. Look for a girl with an adams apple on 188cm Star 7's.

[TahoeJ]

Do those web sites charge you to view them? Most ads don't pay until someone clicks on them

You clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about...

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

That doesn't seem that Canadian

So they can't ski with friends or family who are in town? That seems overly strict. And is the scanner right at the lift it how does the company know the chair was shared?

Yeah, more "clearly" than extreme.

I'm assuming it comes down to whether any lift priority use went down. The scanners record the time you pass through gates, and many of the lifts have a camera pointed right at the turnstile. Pretty quick investigation to see if the guide is wearing a name badge.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

You completely missed my point and got it backwards. When someone creates content and you block the ads that pay for it and the bandwidth to serve it, you're doing the same thing.

I think there's a little bit of a difference between invasive advertising, web trackers, and malware (ad blockers block more than just ads) and clipping a lift ticket. Plus there are ways around ad blockers (disabling features or access until unblocked, or promoting sponsored content).

I'd be okay with sidebar ads that don't autoplay or make noise. But when I see my adblocker showing 20+ elements blocked, which (even here) sometimes includes obnoxious pop-over ads that redirect to spam/mal-ware sites, you bet I'm going to turn on ABP.

[snoqpass]

You clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about...

Having an Adblock on your computer isn't the same as walking up to a ski resort with the intent to commit a fraudulent act

[Bunion 2020]

I'm not so sure about that. There's a great deal of evidence to the contrary.

I think many ski resorts have lost any moral high ground with how much they're charging for day passes.

You have the option of not giving them your business. The ski RESORTS you talk about have pretty high operating costs that are reflected in their Day ticket prices. And as much as people like to hate on Vail, their season pass prices are pretty reasonable.

In the end it is a moral choice that people make, one way or another.

[old goat]

So your implication is that if you can't afford to ski as much as you want then you are ok to scam to achieve your goal? No sorry, I don't buy into that at all. In fact extrapolated into real life, that is the attitude that is destroying the fabric of our society. Can't afford it? Go steal it from someone because YOU deserve it

Where did I say it was ok? I've never scammed a pass (but I confess to having done a few other dishonest things in my life). What I said was that IMO a lot of people will do something dishonest if they a) can't afford to do it honestly (TahoeJ disagrees), and/or they can rationalize that the entity they are stealing from deserves it. I most definitely do NOT think it is right. (Back in the 60's we called it "liberating" something from a store.) Of course there are plenty of people who won't steal no matter how poor they are, and there of plenty of rich people stealing. But I think that for most of us or some of us or a few of us--I have no idea the number--morality depends on circumstances, cynical as that may sound. And if we are going to do something dishonest, we should at least be honest with ourselves that what we are doing is wrong--not that it makes any difference.

As far as the fabric of our society --that was torn a very long while ago--after all we stole the whole fucking country and then went out and stole a bunch of African people to do the work. I don't think people in this country are any more or less honest than they've always been.

[Bunion 2020]

As far as the fabric of our society --that was torn a very long while ago--after all we stole the whole fucking country and then went out and stole a bunch of African people to do the work. I don't think people in this country are any more or less honest than they've always been.

I have to admit I did laugh as well as appreciate that comment. Thank you.

[back bowl]

I forged a marriage certificate to get a pass at Big Mtn. one season. I had a family member who had been married in Belize, I made a reproduction of the certificate on the computer, then took it to the Whitefish library and used the typewriter to fill in the blanks. Cut the paper to a non-standard size and used a refrigerator magnet and a pen to add a raised "seal" to it. Got an employee family pass that year...

[yeahman]

When someone creates content and you block the ads that pay for it and the bandwidth to serve it, you're doing the same thing.

As somebody who makes a good chunk of my income off online advertising, I kind of agree with you about adblockers, they piss me off, but then again there's nothing that prevents a person from reading the newspaper and simply ignoring the ads. Kind of the same thing.

The problem is the fee structure for online advertising is different than for display ads in newspapers and magazines, and it shouldn't be. Online I only get paid when somebody clicks an ad, but in a newspaper or magazine there is no clicking or way to track who looked at it and who didn't. Yet those ads still cost a premium vs. online ads. Display ads on websites should pay the same whether they get clicked on or not is my contention. Now I just need to convince Google of that.

[snoqpass]

I forged a marriage certificate to get a pass at Big Mtn. one season. I had a family member who had been married in Belize, I made a reproduction of the certificate on the computer, then took it to the Whitefish library and used the typewriter to fill in the blanks. Cut the paper to a non-standard size and used a refrigerator magnet and a pen to add a raised "seal" to it. Got an employee family pass that year...

That's taking it to another level

[snoqpass]

As somebody who makes a good chunk of my income off online advertising,Online I only get paid when somebody clicks an ad, but in a newspaper or magazine there is no clicking or way to track who looked at it and who didn't. Yet those ads still cost a premium vs. online ads. Display ads on websites should pay the same whether they get clicked on or not is my contention.

Tahoe J Clearly I don't know what I'm talking about

[Kinnikinnick]

Not to justify scamming tickets or passes but just to point out the finer point of the economics. First of all ski area costs are basically fixed. Thus there is no direct loss to a ski area if scammed, unlike a store that has merchandise stolen and thus has lost not only the retail price but the wholesale price that it paid for inventory. It is lost revenue, but not a direct cost to the resort.

Secondly the loss to resorts of resold tickets is even less. Someone has paid for the privilege and they are just transferring that privilege. I'm sure there are laws protecting them in both cases but its not like they are doing financial harm, just not making as much as they might.

For what its worth I skinned up many years ago a couple times to upper lifts in my student days when I could not afford a season pass or day ticket.

[snoqpass]

It's hard to have fixed costs when your business depends on Mother Nature

[Tryingtostaywarm]

Who gives a fuck. I feel like the only people who do is the guy driving the Audi wagon who pulled up to Mary Jane the other day, on a powder day, and he was bitching about traffic. It's a powder day bro, chill the fuck out douche canoe.

[TahoeJ]

Tahoe J Clearly I don't know what I'm talking about

Umm... yeah, I've only been working in online advertising for 15 years. You really showed me.

For the record, Yeahman is saying what a lot of people think about Google's structure, which is how it was over a decade ago. Clicks matter but impressions are part of it (there's a complex bid structure and if it was strictly CPC..... oh nevermind... I'm not going to argue any further since, well, I'm fucking right and this is stupid).

[yeahman]

^^Yeah, but impressions pay next to nothing, it's still all about the clicks. Recently the Amazon Associates program is generating 10X what I make off Google display ads anyway so I am ditching Google ads altogether on my website in favor of Amazon ads. On YouTube it is an entirely different matter, and that is where Google ads are quite successful for me.

But there are lots of variables in this game as TahoeJ notes, in particular what advertisers are willing to pay to advertise on specific content.

[wicked_sick]

Back when I was an unemployed broke student I was fortunate to live near a hill that had a killer deal for a student season pass. That deal was short lived though, and the following winter I was going to have to take a break from resort skiing due to a hudge price increase.

A good buddy bought a season pass, rode two days then got called out to work overseas. He gave me his pass and I got like 15 days in on it, which is probably a third of what he'd have posted had he been around. Plus I bought lunch and a beer a couple times, and he definitely wouldn't have.

So in the long run, the resort came out ahead.

His name is Jessica now. Look for a girl with an adams apple on 188cm Star 7's.

S/he's a superstar. Got a thing for unicorns, right?

[old goat]

Not to justify scamming tickets or passes but just to point out the finer point of the economics. First of all ski area costs are basically fixed. Thus there is no direct loss to a ski area if scammed, unlike a store that has merchandise stolen and thus has lost not only the retail price but the wholesale price that it paid for inventory. It is lost revenue, but not a direct cost to the resort.

Secondly the loss to resorts of resold tickets is even less. Someone has paid for the privilege and they are just transferring that privilege. I'm sure there are laws protecting them in both cases but its not like they are doing financial harm, just not making as much as they might.

For what its worth I skinned up many years ago a couple times to upper lifts in my student days when I could not afford a season pass or day ticket.

The lift ticket or pass contract--only usable by the purchaser--is no more one sided than other consumer contracts. Why isn't an airline ticket transferrable? Why does just about every consumer services company require binding arbitration? Why can your cable company drop a popular station but charge you if you terminate early? I suppose ski resorts could offer transferrable tickets and passes, but they would cost a lot more. Some years ago Alpine Meadows (pre KSL) offered a family ticket--priced more than a single ticket but less than two, that allowed parents with infants to split the day.

[TahoeJ]

^^ A lot of resorts still offer those parent tickets so mom and dad can switch back and forth. They're a little more expensive, I think, but not ridiculously so. BTW - I wasn't advocating the general behavior as you seemed to imply earlier, I was just saying the vails of the world sacrificed the moral high ground by charging so much *from the POV* of the person scamming.

[abraham]

Umm... yeah, I've only been working in online advertising for 15 years. You really showed me.

Maybe, just maybe, he knows about the world he's talking about just as you know about advertising

[BCMtnHound]

It is, and always has been, a sunk cost when considering lift served skiing. If I couldn't afford the price of admission, seeking an alternate way in was never a drive for me.
The backcountry has no such complications. But then I'm a bit anti-social that way.