AWD and chains

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

Don't make me check the spare bootlicker.

The last thing we need is another DD.

I hear the logic on snow tires. For whatever reason, the hardest part of our snow driving is the s-turns on Squaw Valley Road. We know where the super slippery metal grates are, and have the sense to drive it at 10 mph if things are icy.

Having said all this, I'm sure we'll hit black ice on our next snow drive and take out 150 feet of guardrail, a semi-trailer full of the finest caviar (that will inevitably spoil), and end up submerged in a lake. Thanks, guys.

[old goat]

But it's hard to contemplate going through $1000 of snow tires in a season (a 5,000 pound SUV absolutely murders tires).

I'm starting my 6th winter (most of the previous ones were nearly snowless) on Michelin X-ices, still adequate tread per the tire place, but then a Forester isn't 5K#. According to the tire guy it's high temps more than dry pavement that are hard on studless winter tires.
I can't say winter tires are dramatically better than all seasons--that may say more about Foresters doing well in the snow and ice than about the tires, or about my being a timid winter driver.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

Our Touareg ran through a 65,000 mile A/A rated tire in about 38,000 miles.

For weight comparison, a Forester is about 3,300 pounds. A Touareg TDI is 4,919 empty, or about 6,000 with two adults, two kids, a dog, four bikes, and a week's worth of shit. The Touareg is awesome in the snow - no more getting yanked around by truck ruts like our old A4 (and way, way better than an Impreza).

[Mofro261]

My experience is all seasons do well in the snow for maybe for 15-20K miles, and suck in the snow thereafter and they also do much better on lighter weight/lower center of gravity cars/suvs. I've always had a cars/suvs with awd/4wd and run all seasons on most of the time, and the subaru and volvo wagons did great with them, little less so with the 4runner, and the XC90 has been the worst of the bunch, it's just too damn heavy. The subaru running dedicated snows was by far the best in the snow for traction but suffered more in the deep with its lower ground clearance than all the others.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

My experience is all seasons do well in the snow for maybe for 15-20K miles, and suck in the snow thereafter and they also do much better on lighter weight/lower center of gravity cars/suvs. I've always had a cars/suvs with awd/4wd and run all seasons on most of the time, and the subaru and volvo wagons did great with them, little less so with the 4runner, and the XC90 has been the worst of the bunch, it's just too damn heavy. The subaru running dedicated snows was by far the best in the snow for traction but suffered more in the deep with its lower ground clearance than all the others.

The stock tires that come with cars are usually terrible. The stock tires on our Touareg were loud and not particularly good at traction. The new ones we put on reduced the noise considerably (we're hearing noises from our roof rack that were previously drowned out), and have much better traction. Agree that the traction goes down as the tread wears, but that's not unique to all seasons.

[bobz]

In California, all cars are required to carry chains in winter on mountain highways. However, AWD owners routinely ignore this, and I've never heard of cops checking whether anyone (other than truckers) is carrying chains.

There is a category of chain control in CA where AWDs need to use chains, but it's almost unheard of; typically the highway will close first. The exception to that (again, in CA) is that Yosemite and SEKI National Parks have been known to require chains on all vehicles (including AWD); I've seen it twice.

I've used chains on AWD a few times, mostly for when I've gotten stuck on an icy driveway. One time, I used chains on all wheels, on a 4WD: Steep dirt road (the crux of the southern Hunter Mountain exit from Saline Valley if any of you know it), icy to start with, and with most of a foot of fresh accumulating snow on top; we couldn't have gotten out of there until much of a week later if we didn't do that.

For one set, put them on the front wheels.

[ex-powderbroker]

If I had to put chains on my A4, I'd do all four tires rather than fuck it up. Supposedly that can happen with mismatched tires, so not sure why it would not be in issue with just chains up front.

[sb]

Chains are for bad gurls

[HansJob]

...and whips

[2FUNKY]

You two say it like it's a bad thing.

[farmer]

Was it a blue Cayenne, just north of the Pole Creek/Silver Peak access parking area? If so, we saw that guy sideways, hanging over the edge of the driveway, and calling for a tow truck around Thanksgiving.

My in-laws, who live in Reno, have snows (some studded, even) on their cars. I've driven their cars and appreciate the amazing traction that studs give, but didn't really think snows were leaps and bounds better in deep, uncompacted snow. Snow tires are undoubtedly better in icy conditions, and when navigating steeper terrain, than all season M+S tires. But Caltrans shuts down 80 pretty quick in those conditions, and we time our drives around the worst of the weather and conditions. If I lived up there and had ample garage space, it would be a no-brainer. But it's hard to contemplate going through $1000 of snow tires in a season (a 5,000 pound SUV absolutely murders tires).

5000 lbs? That's cute.

[shroom]

the wheels keep spinnin

[old goat]

the wheels keep spinnin

Depends on the vehicle apparently. My Forester's (2005) wheels don't turn when I try to bulldoze my way out of the driveway through deep snow. Can't reverse direction and go back into the garage. I have to get down on my belly and shovel out under the car--once I clear the snow the wheels turn again. Same thing happened to an Explorer I was trying to help a couple of years ago--high centered on a berm, wheels wouldn't turn. (I let the lady call a tow truck; not getting down on my belly for anyone.).

[glademaster]

Depends on the vehicle apparently. My Forester's (2005) wheels don't turn when I try to bulldoze my way out of the driveway through deep snow. Can't reverse direction and go back into the garage. I have to get down on my belly and shovel out under the car--once I clear the snow the wheels turn again. Same thing happened to an Explorer I was trying to help a couple of years ago--high centered on a berm, wheels wouldn't turn. (I let the lady call a tow truck; not getting down on my belly for anyone.).

Is your Forester an automatic or a manual?

[hutash]

In California, all cars are required to carry chains in winter on mountain highways. However, AWD owners routinely ignore this, and I've never heard of cops checking whether anyone (other than truckers) is carrying chains.

Then you haven't read this thread. I have been checked, had to get out and show the CHP my box of cables, and I have known several other people who have had to do the same. It is not common, but it does happen. All on the Mammoth side, so no doubt they are tired of LA drivers, but I can't imagine Tahoe is any less of a shit show when tge ground is white.

[LightRanger]

It's definitely the same shitshow around Tahoe for sure. Though I've never even been asked in hundreds of days through chain control. Just hold up four fingers and they wave you through.

[old goat]

Is your Forester an automatic or a manual?

auto

[bobz]

Then you haven't read this thread.

Thx. Indeed, I have heard of it now.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

Then you haven't read this thread. I have been checked, had to get out and show the CHP my box of cables, and I have known several other people who have had to do the same. It is not common, but it does happen. All on the Mammoth side, so no doubt they are tired of LA drivers, but I can't imagine Tahoe is any less of a shit show when tge ground is white.

Definitely a shitshow in the Tahoe area (more due to traffic volume than shittiness of drivers), but I've never had to do more than give the four-finger salute. I've heard that you have to pay (more) for the tow if you can't un-stuck yourself in an AWD if you don't have chains, but that's about it.

[old goat]

The worst is trying to leave North Tahoe/SV/AM on a blizzard Sunday or holiday Monday. 89 and Truckee completely gridlock, even when 80 is open. My personal record is 5 hours from Squaw to Donner Lake--but people who left that evening rather than noon as I did wound up spending the night in their cars on 89 when the interstate shut.
I believe in those situations west bound 80 traffic is held at the Nevada state line unless you can prove you live in NT/Truckee. I would like to see the same thing happen at the resorts and at the lake--better people should wait where there is heat, food, and bathrooms than in their cars on the road. But of course the resorts want the cars out of their lots so they can plow and don't want to have to pay staff to stay all night to keep an eye on the tourists.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

The worst is trying to leave North Tahoe/SV/AM on a blizzard Sunday or holiday Monday. 89 and Truckee completely gridlock, even when 80 is open. My personal record is 5 hours from Squaw to Donner Lake--but people who left that evening rather than noon as I did wound up spending the night in their cars on 89 when the interstate shut.
I believe in those situations west bound 80 traffic is held at the Nevada state line unless you can prove you live in NT/Truckee. I would like to see the same thing happen at the resorts and at the lake--better people should wait where there is heat, food, and bathrooms than in their cars on the road. But of course the resorts want the cars out of their lots so they can plow and don't want to have to pay staff to stay all night to keep an eye on the tourists.

CalTrans has started holding traffic down at Gold Ranch on some storm days in recent years (weird to see them on a stretch of highway that is patrolled by NHP). I think the bigger culprit jamming up the Truckee area is the ski crowd trying to get back on 80 from 89/267. Not sure much can be done about this - ski resorts just don't have the lodging/dining facilities to host all of their daily guests at the same time.

[XXX-er]

http://www.autotrader.ca/newsfeature...i2z6u17fGJ8.97

Comparing Winter Tires with All-Seasons, New and Used

[goldengatestinx]

Depends on the vehicle apparently. My Forester's (2005) wheels don't turn when I try to bulldoze my way out of the driveway through deep snow. Can't reverse direction and go back into the garage. I have to get down on my belly and shovel out under the car--once I clear the snow the wheels turn again. Same thing happened to an Explorer I was trying to help a couple of years ago--high centered on a berm, wheels wouldn't turn. (I let the lady call a tow truck; not getting down on my belly for anyone.).

Not sure specific model years but Subs have a traction control off button. Turn it off and you have drive to all wheels to get unstuck.

Turn back on to not fuck up drive train.

[riser4]

Not sure specific model years but Subs have a traction control off button. Turn it off and you have drive to all wheels to get unstuck.

Turn back on to not fuck up drive train.

I prefer my subs to be nuclear.

[bodywhomper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BhhsEuYXZQ