Moving to Europe for work?

[Captain Awesome]

Once you 1099, and are a consultant rather than an employee, you have no assurance that your job is permanent; if it doesn't work out, you might not have a job to return to in the US.

I understand the risk there - but it's a good point. The only reason I might want to offer the 1099 is to make things simpler up front (and get me going sooner), while we collectively determine strategy for the next step, which I think is probably 6-8 months off (in terms of opening an office and hiring staff over there). Of course, there's the chance that the first 6-8 months don't go as planned, and the follow-on perm gig doesn't materialize, but there's also a chance that even if I've perm from day 1, that things don't go as planned, and 6-8 months in, they realize that they're not as sure about things, and they let me go. There's no 100% certainty either way, really.

As for where you set up shop - all the kids in prague are learning english or german, because they want jobs. while it might be nice for you spouse, it may not be the best for business.

I'm not sure I follow you here... Why would them learning English/German not be good for business? Driving costs up?

I have been in Europe for the last 6 years following my wife. I really miss bagels and NYC style pizza. Tax equalization is important

Thanks for throwing that term out. I'd been trying to figure out what I need to be asking about as far as taxes, and that term put me on the right trail.

[sharcsplean]

Many the younger kids are looking to leave. They even say their language is dead. I do not know what industries you are looking to work with - but that's where you should be. Yes your wife will be happy, but will you attract the talent your company is looking for? Is that location good for the company or just your wife?

You should do a contract to guarantee you so much time to set up, the cost of coming back and a job at an equivalent position after, if the euro office does not meet expectations. So far, all the risk is on you. I have seen families on contracts get released. Guess how much it costs to move a family of 4, plus a household of stuff back to the mid west?

[liv2ski]

^^^^^Good point that. My sister in laws employer took on all the expenses of their move from CA to Lugano IT and let me just say those expenses were considerable. They are now in Germany with her new job (different company) and have no real plans to return to the US. It has been tough for my step bro to get employment in the IT sector, until his language skills get marginally decent. So being an English speaker isn't the ticket. You need to speak a few languages for most jobs.

[Captain Awesome]

We had the call today. Somewhat of a surprise, it sounds like the UK is back in play (specifically England, from whence the 2 owners of the company come). They said Czech is not out of the running altogether, but that "with the time difference between the new office and our HQ (in Cali/Seattle), we don't want to make things more complicated with a language barrier".

They'd like me to move to CZ (for visa/work permit purposes) soon, for an "interim" period, until there's enough business to open a proper office, which, at this point, they are thinking will be in the UK. So, it's not a big change, in terms of the process, from what I expected, but the potential to end up in London is a bit of a curve ball.

Looking at just about every cost of living site I can find, London is 2-3 times the cost of Prague, and among the highest locations in Europe (if not the world). I'm confident that they want me, to some degree, but I don't really know how much (if any) leverage I hold. Would I be out of line to request that they give me 2x my current salary to balance out the cost of living increase associated with being in London?

My best case scenario is still that I get to live in Prague (or Brno, or otherwise in CZ), but I'm not really sure how to evaluate cost/benefit scenarios in other places, other than on a purely dollars and cents basis.

What else should I be looking at?

[digitaldeath]

South Lake Tahoe

[FluffyLilKitten]

London skiing sucks.

[PNWbrit]

London skiing sucks.

Yep.

and Captain Awesome.. this whole thing is starting to sink IMHO.

[Fuzz]

I made the move from Summit County to London. It'll be tough (but not impossible) for most companies to provide the same standard of living in London as in the US. If you really want skiing, then London will not be ideal. If however, you want to experience some great culture, history, and travel opportunities, then London is fantastic.

We made the trade-off and ended up loving it for the time we lived there -- got to experience a lot more of the world. Potentials for moves to Paris or Italy were starting to open up, but the chance to live in New Zealand was too good to pass up.

[Captain Awesome]

Got the formal offer last night.

Overall, things look pretty good. I need to have a few things clarified, particularly around the bonus package. The base salary is a little lower than I expected (by 10% or so), but the upside is much higher, and they're guaranteeing my bonus for the first 6 months, which should make up for it (as long as I can produce after that time). Talked to another friend with the company, and it sounds like it's close to what he's getting, so I think it's fair.

I'm 90% sure I'm going to do it, using the logic that I'll be more likely to regret not having done it. If it's a shitshow, I'll just come back stateside, but it seems like a great opportunity that should be pursued. I'm planning to get them my answer by early next week.

[stfu&gbtw]

Yogi summed it up best...

"When you come to a fork in the road, take it."

[Hicks]

Had done it the other way around many years ago. No regrets despite my return to Europe at some point of time for another job opportunity.

Czech Republic is a decent and pretty developed place to live these days. Depending on where you end up it's a great outdoor area particulary everywhere close to the montagneous borders. The skiing (small scale though) though is either on the northern border or in Slovakia or eastern Austria. Outside of the major metropolitan areas you might struggle a bit with finding English speaking people but it's getting better. Learning the language is hard though. It is easy to fly out of Prague to anywhere in the world.

Same applies to Poland and Slovakia, with latter having some real mountains and skiing.

Netherlands - depending on where you end up. Regions close to the shore are fun during summer.

London would be a great cultural experience a many said. As long as your salary - which often is high there - allows you to fly our regulary then you could easily stay connected with the rest of Europe since drives out there are extended and inconvenient.

For various reasons I would clearly steer away from any German speaking regions except maybe for eastern Switzerland.

But go for the move, it will be an experience of a lifetime.

[comish]

Moved to London for 2 years to follow Mrs. Comish (Who is German originally) to biz school. Great experience and would definitely do it again.

London is expensive, but doesn't have to crush you. Apartments or real estate are very very expensive. We moved from SF to London and my recollection, albeit a bit fuzzy after way too many pints, is that it was more than SF, but not crushingly more. That said you can eat and drink cheaply in London. Pubs are your friend. Loved the Thai food in some of the pubs.

Travel is actually quite easy from London, but will involve planes more than trains unfortunately. Train to Paris and a couple other places, but otherwise you are looking at planes. Some of the flights when booked in advance are stupid expensive. I think we paid $20 to go to Venice for the weekend one time, otherwise comparable to the US. You can get anywhere in an hour or two via plane. Book flights early on EasyJet and Ryanair and others to get to the Alps frequently. Chamonix is an easy weekend from London. That said, that arrangement worked for a couple years, but didn't seem sustainable from a hassle (flying, taking skis on the Tube, etc), time, and expense perspective.

We moved over a week before Sept. 11th. US economy doing the dot.bomb thing, Europe thought they were following. The end of that year was hopeless for finding a job, especially given that I had zero connections or experience in the local market. Ended up finding a few in March and had an awesome experience. Made comparable money to the US, but health care was free and in the end taxes felt like they were the same to maybe even slightly less.

London is likely going to go through some significant changes with Brexit. Obviously the jury is still out on how that will effect things, but I would probably rather be on the Continent.

Definitely negotiate for the expat cost structure package.

Go for it! We loved out stay and could have definitely seen staying in Europe, just not London long term. City is too big, too far from mountains and surf, and pretty dang expensive. But for 2 years it was amazing! Good luck.

[Marshall Tucker]

But who will do TRs on face shots from overpasses?

[HellgateBasement]

I was on the verge of accepting a job in Luxembourg. My current employer offered to move me to one of their European offices if I agreed to stay with the company. Options are Milan or Amsterdam. GF is moving with and is self employed. We haven't spent time in either city and can't really visit due to covid. Anyone have experience in both cities? All 3?

Milan should be a slam dunk on a ski forum, but then again there are more degenerates than skiers here, so maybe not.... what say the collective?

[Danno]

I was on the verge of accepting a job in Luxembourg. My current employer offered to move me to one of their European offices if I agreed to stay with the company. Options are Milan or Amsterdam. GF is moving with and is self employed. We haven't spent time in either city and can't really visit due to covid. Anyone have experience in both cities? All 3?

Milan should be a slam dunk on a ski forum, but then again there are more degenerates than skiers here, so maybe not.... what say the collective?

I know nothing but Imma comment anyway. Milan is definitely the better skiing location. Amsterdam will be way better from a language POV (I'm assuming you don't speak Italian or Dutch).

[Meathelmet]

Milan for skiing, culture, travel in general, superb food and whatever one would want from a...holiday. Depending on your field of expertise & nature of your job, I would think thrice. I love Italians & the whole shebang, get along with their tempo just fine.
But fuck my life if I would have to do any serious business (schedules, arrangements and whatnot) with Italians....

Cant comment that much on Luxembourg. Nice'ish, quiet place, good for money laundering and couple of hours closer to the alps than Amsterdam. A lot of other activities around as it is as central europe (culture wise) as a place can be. Could imagine myself spending some time there if it would come down to that.

Amsterdam on the other hand is of quite a different tempo, like London Lite. Nice city, interesting stuff and Dutch are a cool bunch but business wise will eat muppets for breakfast. If I would be businessoriented salaryman I would choose A-Dam to hone my game.

My .02€

[schindlerpiste]

I would rather live anywhere in Italy, other than Milan. In my experience, Milan is the LA of Italy. All about fashion, attitude and pretense. Generally, people from Milan think that they are much better than other Italians. While the location is great (close to alps, Lakes and not far from beaches), the vibe is very meh....unless you are into the fashion industry and all that goes with that.

If Milan is like living in LA, Amsterdam is like living in Greenwich Village. Very cool, laid back, and friendly, with great restaurants, and lots to do. Just don't mind the maggots (of the Rolling Stones "Shattered" type). There is an ICE to Basel. Also, if you are into windsurfing, you would be very close to wold-class venues. To me, it is a no brainer

[nickwm21]

Milan is the most expensive city in Italy


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[abraham]

I think meathelmet's assessment is pretty good.

Is there an opportunity to move between the 3 later?
What are you and the gf looking for in your everyday life, what do you prefer traveling to? Will you be traveling for work when you're there?

I couldn't live in Amsterdam, I realized after 3 weeks of not seeing any decent hills/mountains that it made me uncomfortable. Of course in Milan you have to get lucky with the weather to see them, but it's not bad by train. Working in Italy can be challenging and frustrating.

[Ski220]

I couldn't live in Amsterdam, I realized after 3 weeks of not seeing any SUN.

Unless you live in Seattle and are used to this type of weather.

[HellgateBasement]

Unless you live in Seattle and are used to this type of weather.

Yeah I think this is going to bum me out. Going to spend lots of money flying to find sun/ski/mtb if we choose AMS.

I think meathelmet's assessment is pretty good.

Is there an opportunity to move between the 3 later?
What are you and the gf looking for in your everyday life, what do you prefer traveling to? Will you be traveling for work when you're there?

All good questions. I do think there is an opportunity to move down the road. How many years before that opportunity presents itself is hard to say. Mostly I think we're looking to have a new cultural experience and to travel extensively "while we still can" ie. before babies and life make it harder, while also advancing our careers, being active, eating good food, drinking.

My role is kinda still half baked, but likely will require travel back to the US, to LatAm, and throughout Europe.

[abraham]

Unless you live in Seattle and are used to this type of weather.

A couple weeks in Helsinki and Tampere in November/December were GRIM. Fortunately I like some of the music that comes out of that weather. And I got to go to the Moomin museum when I was a kid.

Yeah I think this is going to bum me out. Going to spend lots of money flying to find sun/ski/mtb if we choose AMS.



All good questions. I do think there is an opportunity to move down the road. How many years before that opportunity presents itself is hard to say. Mostly I think we're looking to have a new cultural experience and to travel extensively "while we still can" ie. before babies and life make it harder, while also advancing our careers, being active, eating good food, drinking.

My role is kinda still half baked, but likely will require travel back to the US, to LatAm, and throughout Europe.

I like Amsterdam and usually have good weather, or good company, so it's never really bothered me.

If you expect to spend a lot of time away then you've gotta think about where and how you're traveling. Amsterdam is probably a better hub for flying almost anywhere, but if you're driving it changes things. Friends of mine in London spent a year flying somewhere every weekend it seemed like, not sure that would have been as easy in Milan but I've had bad luck with flights there.

[nordekette]

I was on the verge of accepting a job in Luxembourg. My current employer offered to move me to one of their European offices if I agreed to stay with the company. Options are Milan or Amsterdam. GF is moving with and is self employed. We haven't spent time in either city and can't really visit due to covid. Anyone have experience in both cities? All 3?

Milan should be a slam dunk on a ski forum, but then again there are more degenerates than skiers here, so maybe not.... what say the collective?

there are a few options from amsterdam skiing by train.

the overnight train to innsbruck which opens a lot of terrain
specially now in preseason there is all the glacial resorts
but you have to wait for the snow until there is descent cover of the ice

https://www.bergfex.at/tirol/


hintertuxer glacier (zillertal)
stubaier glacier https://www.bergfex.at/stubaier-gletscher/wetter/berg/
pitztal glacier
rettenbach glacier (ötztal)




later in the saison snowmaking starts mid november and all resorts should open by latest 15th of december

the nightrain stops in
kufstein access to kitzbühl area (nice piste skiing - mellow terreain - but not during the raceweekend)
wörgl access to zillertal (lots of lifts)
jenbach acces to achensee area beautiful can get snow during northstau
innsbruck local hub to get busses or connecting trains to anywhere like st. anton

there is three season pass options for tirol

freizeitticket tirol resorts around innsbruck +3 days stanton +3days ischgl
snowcard tirol !!!!!all resorts!!!!!! huuuge card except allberg
alberg card all the alberg you can get in one card


i am not promoting tirol here ... thats the only thing i know .... snowfalls are bigger in other areas
so our snowpack is shallow/sharky until end february
and our snowpack is scatchy until begin of march

just some local knowledge to share

good source of info is
powderguide.com
alot of condition reports for tirol
all in german but google translate will help you : ) and the star rating is straight forward
subtle writes the powderalerts and he is covering the whole alps

this is a good book for all the resorts in the alps
https://www.wepowdershop.com/product...uct-9766762271

and english european powder information... but they are selling the freeride hype
so there weather updates are very "catchy" instantly wants to make me wax my skis
https://wepowder.com/en

and the avalanche bulletin for tirol

https://avalanche.report/bulletin/latest

good source for the weather data too

i life and ski in innsbruck

and my homespot is nordkette
gets alot of snow during nordstau
but there is 40.000 students in innsbruck and they all own a pair of rockered 115mm boards
and now all mounted with shifts and kingpins : D and no skins : D
but they share their skins. sooooo

[MarcusBrody]

I haven't ever lived in Milan, but I love Northern Italy. I've only been in Milan a few times to fly in/visit family, but it seemed ok, if not amazing. I would choose it over Amsterdam just for how much I love the Sud Tirol. I can't imagine too many places that I'd rather live to hike/bike/ski/even sail. At some point, I might try to live in/near Verona/Trento for a while. Too far to commute from Milan, but if you are getting paid well to make this move, you could get a little place up in the mountains to escape the city.

[Buster Highmen]

Bolzano and hang out with the Weierstrasses.