Climate Change

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I have not thought closely about the California HSR project in a long time.

There needs to be alternative ways for people to move around the state/country besides cars, buses, automobile, and air. Electric powered rail seems like a good solution.

Serious question, from a purely utilitarian and sustainable environmental impact pov, why do people need to move around their state or the country?

Travel needs to be painful to the point that most people regardless of ideology or means start clamoring for better transit like a renewed passenger rail system. We used to be able to travel all over this country by rail. This is all a pipe dream of course because we can’t help being selfish and self indulgent.


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[Supermoon]

Serious question, from a purely utilitarian and sustainable environmental impact pov, why do people need to move around their state or the country?

Travel needs to be painful to the point that most people regardless of ideology or means start clamoring for better transit like a renewed passenger rail system. We used to be able to travel all over this country by rail. This is all a pipe dream of course because we can’t help being selfish and self indulgent.


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I think mostly because the pain to benefit ratio is so low. The vast majority of emissions are from industry and the super wealthy. Keeping normal people from traveling around won’t solve the problem, but will alienate a large percentage of the population away from climate solutions.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I think mostly because the pain to benefit ratio is so low. The vast majority of emissions are from industry and the super wealthy. Keeping normal people from traveling around won’t solve the problem, but will alienate a large percentage of the population away from climate solutions.

This is exactly the cop out that will keep it from happening. Of course everyone needs to do better but that’s not an excuse to not do something beneficial for the planet.


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[Supermoon]

This is exactly the cop out that will keep it from happening. Of course everyone needs to do better but that’s not an excuse to not do something beneficial for the planet.


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It’s not a cop out. It’s a fact. The idea of individual responsibility for climate change was brought about by the oil companies.

We need an entire overhaul of the whole economy. No half measures are going to do anything.

[altacoup]

^^^^

Truth! And can only be achieved at a governmental level because the business mentality is too focused on short term gains. The IRA has been a massive help. We really need a Democratic majority in all chambers to really get is going on the right foot. However the Green Party will roll out Coronel West and get a decent amount of votes, that are bc essentially anti green in their effect. If America leads, the rest will follow.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It’s not a cop out. It’s a fact. The idea of individual responsibility for climate change was brought about by the oil companies.

We need an entire overhaul of the whole economy. No half measures are going to do anything.

A rail system isn’t exactly individual responsibility. I get it, we need to blame industry and have them change before we do anything else. A change to focus on transportation of people and goods to rail and get cars and trucks off the roads isn’t really a half measure IMO.


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[Supermoon]

A rail system isn’t exactly individual responsibility. I get it, we need to blame industry and have them change before we do anything else. A change to focus on transportation of people and goods to rail and get cars and trucks off the roads isn’t really a half measure IMO.


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I agree about transportation. Greening up mass transit, autos, and travel is a big endeavor with big upside. I was reacting more to the telling people they can’t travel part of it.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I agree about transportation. Greening up mass transit, autos, and travel is a big endeavor with big upside. I was reacting more to the telling people they can’t travel part of it.

I never said to ban travel, I said to make it more painful (costly).It should be more costly, it’s incredibly self indulgent. It’s not just about our individual trips, it’s the collective damage done to the planet and society. It’s too easy for even people of modest means to travel around the country and planet. No one wants to see you in their town/state/country, they just want your money.


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[bodywhomper]

I disagree. Enrichment of life and society through sharing of cultures, art, etc. and human interactions is important.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I disagree. Enrichment of life and society through sharing of cultures, art, etc. and human interactions is important.

That’s definitely not possible without traveling

Try this https://www.newyorker.com/culture/th...against-travel
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[twann74]

I never said to ban travel, I said to make it more painful (costly).It should be more costly, it’s incredibly self indulgent. It’s not just about our individual trips, it’s the collective damage done to the planet and society. It’s too easy for even people of modest means to travel around the country and planet. No one wants to see you in their town/state/country, they just want your money.


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Completely agree. In Europe we have a pretty good railway network, but a lot of people keep flying because it's so cheap compared to the train most of the time... It doesn't make any sense that we pay more tax to put 1 gallon of petrol in our car than 1 gallon of kerosene in a plane. I'm convinced if we start to account for the "real" cost of flying people will book less flights and more train tickets. Of course, you have to have a good rail network to do this first. Let's hope the US will get better on that matter, maybe one day ?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Americans won’t change, the majority of us think we’re exceptional. It’s odd because I’ve met very few exceptional people in my 55 years. I’m not one of them.


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[skaredshtles]

<snip> you have to have a good rail network to do this first. Let's hope the US will get better on that matter, maybe one day ?

[The SnowShow]

Well, it looks like NYC is getting a taste of being underwater. Brooklyn is a river. Hoboken is a river. Subways are a disgusting mess.

[SumJongGuy]

Well, it looks like NYC is getting a taste of being underwater. Brooklyn is a river. Hoboken is a river. Subways are a disgusting mess.

Relax, rats are good swimmers. They'll be fine..

[old goat]

Won't they get eaten by the alligators?

[The SnowShow]

Won't they get eaten by the alligators?

Yes, along with the people swallowed up by waterfalls in the subway system.

[neufox47]

Well, it looks like NYC is getting a taste of being underwater. Brooklyn is a river. Hoboken is a river. Subways are a disgusting mess.

Subway is now as clean as its been since Sandy.

[PB]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/19/us/al...ate/index.html

Just another nail in the ......

[skaredshtles]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/19/us/al...ate/index.html

Just another nail in the ......

wElL ThEy sHoUlD HaVe aDpAtEd! sUrViVaL Of tHe fItTeSt, AmIrItE??

[The AD]

Crabs need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

[GrantN]

If you are like me & looking for some direction this helped me a bit in that regard
An important listen IMHO. Easy enough on my skibum brain FWIW. YMMV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnEXEIp5vB8

Lots more Bill Rees available on youtube

Good reads in no particular order:

- The loss of happiness in market democracies by Robert Lane
- The limits to growth(~1972)
- Killing the host-Michael Hudson
- The spirit level- Richard Wilkinson & Kate pilcket
- The pitchforks are coming-written by a millionaire
- The spirit level- Richard Wilkinson & Kate pickett
- Lewis Powell-memerandum (~1971)
- Commanding Hope by Thomas Homer-Dixon


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[xyz]

Serious question, from a purely utilitarian and sustainable environmental impact pov, why do people need to move around their state or the country?

Travel needs to be painful to the point that most people regardless of ideology or means start clamoring for better transit like a renewed passenger rail system. We used to be able to travel all over this country by rail. This is all a pipe dream of course because we can’t help being selfish and self indulgent.


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Why should we stop travelling more when the loudest people telling us to do so have the biggest carbon footprint? I’ll travel less when bill gates and dicaprio take the bus.


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[The AD]

I don't know if climate change had anything to do with it, but I just read that Hurricane Otis went from a tropical storm to a category 5 hurricane in 12 hours. That's nuts. Acapulco is getting battered. 165 mph sustained winds. Wow.

[skaredshtles]

I don't know if climate change had anything to do with it, but I just read that Hurricane Otis went from a tropical storm to a category 5 hurricane in 12 hours. That's nuts. Acapulco is getting battered. 165 mph sustained winds. Wow.

Oh, you can be assured that climate change had something to do with it...