Climate Change

[romeo tango]

...It’s pretty much a dead issue at this point ....

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agreed!
kill this cunt thread .....

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[WMD]

I think what he's really saying is that if all we have is individual action the situation is hopeless. Which it is. And that government isn't doing anything, which it isn't. So what's the point. I would say that the most important thing we can do is force govt to act, much more important than buying an electric car or forgoing air travel. But collective action is a hard concept for a lot of North Americans to grasp.

He's trying to say there's no hope so don't bother to try. Doomism is the new climate denial. If you can't disprove the reality of climate change you can still prevent action by making people think there's no hope or that any change will be too painful. It is bullshit and he knows it but he's doing it on purpose.

Even if he's talking about adaptation rather than adoption, there is no way to adapt our way out of ever worsening climate damage. Yes, we need to do more to adapt to the damages we've already caused and will cause while we move towards net zero but if we don't work to stop emissions it will be impossible to "adopt" to climate change.

[k2skier112]

Another day with another scary headline. We are numb to it all now. Most people have a hundred other problems in front of climate change anyway.

It’s pretty much a dead issue at this point, like it or not. No meaningful transition is coming in time. 2030 will come and go with more empty promises broken.

Billionaires, politicians celebrities telling us to stop our lives while they private jet it up. It’s ridiculous. China ramping up coal plants, airports busier than ever.

No cares enough to make any sacrifices beyond online virtue signalling.

It’s time to move on. Adaptation makes more sense now.

Edit: auto correct corrected. [emoji867]

If you had a clue about the environment or climate, you'd know the AMOC has been studied and discussed for quite a while. It is an issue, but that doesn't fit your biased confirmation based "science theories"

This is all very gradual, like a frog boiling in water....

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/amoc.html
The entire circulation cycle of the AMOC, and the global conveyor belt, is quite slow. It takes an estimated 1,000 years for a parcel (any given cubic meter) of water to complete its journey along the belt. Even though the whole process is slow on its own, there is some evidence that the AMOC is slowing down further. NOAA funds research to better understand this potential slowing, as well as to investigate the AMOC’s role in coastal sea level changes and its relationship to extreme events.

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/featu...hows-weakening
About the Models Used
The researchers used NOAA’s CM2.6 global climate model to identify the characteristic sea surface temperature (SST) fingerprint associated with an AMOC weakening in response to rising atmospheric carbon dioxide. The model results were compared to observed SST evolution since the late nineteenth century. The CM2.6 model provides very high resolution, which means the realism of the model is greater than many other models currently in use. For example, the ocean bottom is more accurately represented in the CM2.6 model compared to lower resolution models.

The study authors then used a group of global climate models known as CMIP5 to test and calibrate a revised AMOC index. The reconstruction of the evolution of the AMOC from 1870 to 2016 reveals the record low in the past few years and is consistent with direct measurements since 1995 from a number of AMOC studies using different methods.

NOAA’s CM2.6 model is being used for a variety of fisheries studies on the impact of ocean temperatures on lobsters, scallops, various fish species, leatherback sea turtles, and other animals. The model’s high spatial resolution enables researchers to look much more closely at ocean features in regions like the Gulf of Maine or along the Northeast U.S. Shelf than other models, which have a lower ocean resolution and can miss the finer details.

[old goat]

He's trying to say there's no hope so don't bother to try. Doomism is the new climate denial. If you can't disprove the reality of climate change you can still prevent action by making people think there's no hope or that any change will be too painful. It is bullshit and he knows it but he's doing it on purpose.

Even if he's talking about adaptation rather than adoption, there is no way to adapt our way out of ever worsening climate damage. Yes, we need to do more to adapt to the damages we've already caused and will cause while we move towards net zero but if we don't work to stop emissions it will be impossible to "adopt" to climate change.

The problem with adaptation is that it will take just as much govt action as trying to control climate change. Otherwise only the rich will be able to adapt.

[BCMtnHound]

The problem with adaptation is that it will take just as much govt action as trying to control climate change. Otherwise only the rich will be able to adapt.

Right up until some naive debutant says ‘Then let them eat cake’

[Supermoon]

Honestly, a sudden global financial collapse due to entirely predictable outcomes of late-stage capitalism would be fairly good for our climate problem

[Flounder]

XYZ is just another loser Canadian who doesn’t understand the awesome power of the USA once we set our minds to something. I don’t know why people automatically assume that nothing can be done about climate change when we have a history of being able to clean up our messes once we get motivated.

The Cuyahoga River was so polluted it caught fire. Now people are using the river and Cleveland’s water front is much nicer despite still being in Cleveland. Similar deal with the Charles River and other massively polluted rivers throughout the US.

1970’s brought acid rain to the Adirondack’s where we camped. Decimated small ponds and wildlife associated with it. Updates to power plants in the mid west allowed these ponds and forests to recover.

We used some much DDT that we almost completely killed off our national symbol, the bald eagle. Despite the naysayers saying banning DDT would wreak havoc, we are still cranking and the bald eagle has rebounded.

The hole in the ozone layer is slowing repairing itself after a global effort. Again the nervous Nellie’s were up in arms about losing their hair spray and air conditioners. Turns out we were able to find alternatives and we seemed to have stopped damaging the ozone even though it’s taking time to repair.

These were just a few examples I’ve seen in my lifetime. At every step there were people like XYZ that complained it wasn’t worth doing anything or it was too expensive. Each time they were proven wrong. Our economy kept growing, our standard of living has never been higher. Unfortunately it takes extreme examples like a river on fire or thousands of dead bald eagles to motivate Americans.

We can reduce the impact of human caused climate change but it will take all of us and our governments acting in unison. History has shown us that we can clean up our messes if we get motivated enough. And we can still grow our economy and improve our standard of living. Guess I’m just an optimist but there are plenty of examples where we have succeeded.

[Trackhead]

Honestly, a sudden global financial collapse due to entirely predictable outcomes of late-stage capitalism would be fairly good for our climate problem

Or another pandemic. It worked a bit during early covid and during historical economic declines.

[old goat]

XYZ is just another loser Canadian who doesn’t understand the awesome power of the USA once we set our minds to something. I don’t know why people automatically assume that nothing can be done about climate change when we have a history of being able to clean up our messes once we get motivated.

The Cuyahoga River was so polluted it caught fire. Now people are using the river and Cleveland’s water front is much nicer despite still being in Cleveland. Similar deal with the Charles River and other massively polluted rivers throughout the US.

1970’s brought acid rain to the Adirondack’s where we camped. Decimated small ponds and wildlife associated with it. Updates to power plants in the mid west allowed these ponds and forests to recover.

We used some much DDT that we almost completely killed off our national symbol, the bald eagle. Despite the naysayers saying banning DDT would wreak havoc, we are still cranking and the bald eagle has rebounded.

The hole in the ozone layer is slowing repairing itself after a global effort. Again the nervous Nellie’s were up in arms about losing their hair spray and air conditioners. Turns out we were able to find alternatives and we seemed to have stopped damaging the ozone even though it’s taking time to repair.

These were just a few examples I’ve seen in my lifetime. At every step there were people like XYZ that complained it wasn’t worth doing anything or it was too expensive. Each time they were proven wrong. Our economy kept growing, our standard of living has never been higher. Unfortunately it takes extreme examples like a river on fire or thousands of dead bald eagles to motivate Americans.

We can reduce the impact of human caused climate change but it will take all of us and our governments acting in unison. History has shown us that we can clean up our messes if we get motivated enough. And we can still grow our economy and improve our standard of living. Guess I’m just an optimist but there are plenty of examples where we have succeeded.

None of those things required any sacrifice on the part of ordinary people. Fixing climate change will. And the most important environmental bills in the US were signed by a Republican President. Do you see that happening any time soon?

[xyz]

XYZ is just another loser Canadian who doesn’t understand the awesome power of the USA once we set our minds to something. I don’t know why people automatically assume that nothing can be done about climate change when we have a history of being able to clean up our messes once we get motivated.

The Cuyahoga River was so polluted it caught fire. Now people are using the river and Cleveland’s water front is much nicer despite still being in Cleveland. Similar deal with the Charles River and other massively polluted rivers throughout the US.

1970’s brought acid rain to the Adirondack’s where we camped. Decimated small ponds and wildlife associated with it. Updates to power plants in the mid west allowed these ponds and forests to recover.

We used some much DDT that we almost completely killed off our national symbol, the bald eagle. Despite the naysayers saying banning DDT would wreak havoc, we are still cranking and the bald eagle has rebounded.

The hole in the ozone layer is slowing repairing itself after a global effort. Again the nervous Nellie’s were up in arms about losing their hair spray and air conditioners. Turns out we were able to find alternatives and we seemed to have stopped damaging the ozone even though it’s taking time to repair.

These were just a few examples I’ve seen in my lifetime. At every step there were people like XYZ that complained it wasn’t worth doing anything or it was too expensive. Each time they were proven wrong. Our economy kept growing, our standard of living has never been higher. Unfortunately it takes extreme examples like a river on fire or thousands of dead bald eagles to motivate Americans.

We can reduce the impact of human caused climate change but it will take all of us and our governments acting in unison. History has shown us that we can clean up our messes if we get motivated enough. And we can still grow our economy and improve our standard of living. Guess I’m just an optimist but there are plenty of examples where we have succeeded.

Those were all great achievements. But none of them required a world wide overhaul of current lifestyle, for the worse. Switching hair sprays ain’t gonna cut this time. To meet these targets our lives really need to grind to a halt. There are no alternatives that let us carry on with our current lifestyles.

And this is much bigger than the just the USA. The world’s biggest players need to get their collective shit together. Also not gonna happen. All they’ve don’t so far is make unachievable promises, rolled out ineffective taxes, projects and targeted the farmers ffs. While blasting around in private jets.

I’m not in the camp of we are doomed so let’s burn it to the ground, do nothing etc. But I think it’s time to be realists. Governments aren’t going to save the day. And I doubt ALL the doomsday predictions will 100% come to fruition. Maybe only half of them will and maybe those will manageable. So I say let’s do our reasonable best to improve but stop pretending we can meet these net zero goals and stop believing ever single doomsday prediction is 100% guaranteed.

[twat]

Those were all great achievements. But none of them required a world wide overhaul of current lifestyle, for the worse. Switching hair sprays ain’t gonna cut this time. To meet these targets our lives really need to grind to a halt. There are no alternatives that let us carry on with our current lifestyles.

And this is much bigger than the just the USA. The world’s biggest players need to get their collective shit together. Also not gonna happen. All they’ve don’t so far is make unachievable promises, rolled out ineffective taxes, projects and targeted the farmers ffs. While blasting around in private jets.

I’m not in the camp of we are doomed so let’s burn it to the ground, do nothing etc. But I think it’s time to be realists. Governments aren’t going to save the day. And I doubt ALL the doomsday predictions will 100% come to fruition. Maybe only half of them will and maybe those will manageable. So I say let’s do our reasonable best to improve but stop pretending we can meet these net zero goals and stop believing ever single doomsday prediction is 100% guaranteed.

I live in a small rich country. I can point fingers in all directions. Not gonna change anything, but china but India but the us but Germany but France but Russia (but africa(maybe those guys not))

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Those were all great achievements. But none of them required a world wide overhaul of current lifestyle, for the worse. Switching hair sprays ain’t gonna cut this time. To meet these targets our lives really need to grind to a halt. There are no alternatives that let us carry on with our current lifestyles.

And this is much bigger than the just the USA. The world’s biggest players need to get their collective shit together. Also not gonna happen. All they’ve don’t so far is make unachievable promises, rolled out ineffective taxes, projects and targeted the farmers ffs. While blasting around in private jets.

I’m not in the camp of we are doomed so let’s burn it to the ground, do nothing etc. But I think it’s time to be realists. Governments aren’t going to save the day. And I doubt ALL the doomsday predictions will 100% come to fruition. Maybe only half of them will and maybe those will manageable. So I say let’s do our reasonable best to improve but stop pretending we can meet these net zero goals and stop believing ever single doomsday prediction is 100% guaranteed.

It pains me to agree but this is actually a pretty objective take


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Flounder]

Do you see that happening any time soon?

I think it depends on how quickly things get bad. If we get a year with a bunch of catastrophic weather events across a wide stretch of the US maybe enough people will demand action. Sure seems like that is the direction we are headed in so it may happen sooner rather than later.

The point I was trying to convey is we can do it, sacrifices and all if we set our minds to it.

[BCMtnHound]

The tell on how well we’ll survive the coming decades is our food system security. Precip patterns are no longer predictable, and our main agriculture areas are already under severe pressure from drought and related issues (pests mainly). The aquifers are not being replenished quickly enough either. Like I said earlier - potable water followed by arable soil are our world population’s greatest challenges. We think we have issues with homelessness, just wait until there are a few billion starving people coming to knock on the door. The point above about fucking over farmers over carbon impacts bears repeating. Certainly some of our agriculture needs to change (meat production the most), but investment over penalties (and treaties/trade agreements) are what is needed to secure the global food system.

[WMD]

Those were all great achievements. But none of them required a world wide overhaul of current lifestyle, for the worse. Switching hair sprays ain’t gonna cut this time. To meet these targets our lives really need to grind to a halt. There are no alternatives that let us carry on with our current lifestyles.

And this is much bigger than the just the USA. The world’s biggest players need to get their collective shit together. Also not gonna happen. All they’ve don’t so far is make unachievable promises, rolled out ineffective taxes, projects and targeted the farmers ffs. While blasting around in private jets.

I’m not in the camp of we are doomed so let’s burn it to the ground, do nothing etc. But I think it’s time to be realists. Governments aren’t going to save the day. And I doubt ALL the doomsday predictions will 100% come to fruition. Maybe only half of them will and maybe those will manageable. So I say let’s do our reasonable best to improve but stop pretending we can meet these net zero goals and stop believing ever single doomsday prediction is 100% guaranteed.

Blah blah blah It's hopeless blah blah it's too hard blah blah not worth trying to save a livable planet blah blah blah.

Is it going to be hard? Yes. Does that mean we shouldn't do everything we can? No. Every tenth of a degree of warming we avoid will prevent a great deal of harm.

[k2skier112]

Even without AGW the current US lifestyle wouldn't be sustainable for very long for a number of different variables

[::: :::]

It’s weird in Germany to have air conditioning.
There are communities that are actively trying to improve the planet.
Resetting values is an education thing first and a cultural thing eventually.
The hard part is getting people to care. The action part will follow naturally when we finally become willing. The complacent XYZ’s will always be out there trying to drag on progress because change requires effort.

[twat]

We are all hypocrites!

[GrantN]

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2024/02/...t-Zero-Carbon/

[BCMtnHound]

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2024/02/...t-Zero-Carbon/

“Lastly, Canadians will have to use much less energy to prevent an acceleration of the climate crisis. And that means an end to economic growth.

‘Mother Nature has other priorities,’ Hughes told the Tyee. ‘We are going to have to accept contraction, unfortunately. It has been a slice. But the math does not work for continuous growth.’ “

Yep. So much for my pension and investment funds going into retirement. But the trade-off is my 11yo daughter having a ‘small slice’ of what I have enjoyed over the past 50yrs. I can live with that.

[xyz]

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2024/02/...t-Zero-Carbon/

‘The authors conclude that, yes, it is theoretically possible to achieve net zero by 2050 with the following conditions.

Energy demand must be constrained to 25 per cent or less above the present level.

The development of renewable energy sources must be done at six to eight times the present rate.

Governments would have to apply aggressive energy efficiency and conservation measures; nuclear power would expand by 30 per cent or more.

Per capita energy use would need to fall by 40 per cent or more.’

Let’s do better sure, but these goals are just childish fantasy thinking.

[BCMtnHound]

I’m not sure you grasp the alternative scenario. And this report is only Canada - this is a global phenomenon. Each country faces unique challenges, but the end result is the same if we pretend to be the frog in the stovepot.

The bright spot is that there is ample evidence that our species rose back from only a few thousand survivors from some previous environmental calamity. Tenacious species we are. Sucks for the individual though.

[LeeLau]

This is the "optimistic" fix

According to recent projections by the Canada Energy Regulator, or CER, industry will have to:

scale up wind and solar production by more than 10 times;

increase controversial carbon capture and storage by 34 to 39 times;

beef up direct air capture (a nascent technology) by 4,600 to 5,500 times its current world capacity;

increase hydrogen production to 12 per cent of energy supply from nearly nothing;

nearly triple nuclear power;

reduce per capita energy consumption by up to 40 per cent;

decrease fossil fuel production by up to 70 per cent; and

triple the ability of Canadian forests to sequester carbon.

But the "realistic" fix per the author is per xyzs quote

[old goat]

On PBS last night they showed an accelerator the size of a convention center being used to scan an old Roman scroll too fragile to unroll, and then using AI to try to decipher it. It required teams of AI researchers around the world. Finally they were able to read one word. Now I don't feel so guilty about driving a car.

I'm sure the researchers thought they were performing a service for humanity--after all the scroll may or may not have belonged to Julius Caesar's father in law. And I'm sure many of them look down their noses at people driving full sized pickups to work.

[Stuntmonkey]

This is the "optimistic" fix

According to recent projections by the Canada Energy Regulator, or CER, industry will have to:

scale up wind and solar production by more than 10 times;

increase controversial carbon capture and storage by 34 to 39 times;

beef up direct air capture (a nascent technology) by 4,600 to 5,500 times its current world capacity;

increase hydrogen production to 12 per cent of energy supply from nearly nothing;

nearly triple nuclear power;

reduce per capita energy consumption by up to 40 per cent;

decrease fossil fuel production by up to 70 per cent; and

triple the ability of Canadian forests to sequester carbon.

But the "realistic" fix per the author is per xyzs quote

None of this will happen if we continue to elect conservatives as provincial leaders.