Salomon Mtn tech "Pin" binding

[adrenalated]

Hmmm... actually interested in this thing as a spring touring setup. I may have missed it, what's the release date in the US (especially for pros)? What is the mount pattern (does it match any existing tech bindings?)

[tenB]

Definitely interested in hearing Lou's report.

[JRainey]

I was thinking the weight would come in lighter. I like the reapplication of the original, simple, tech binding. Could be burly and light.

NA pricing gets so weird. In europe these would compete with the speed radicals, why would they be $700? NA really gets screwed on binding pricing.

I almost got some of these as a speed radical replacement, but went with raider 14 heels with radical toes.

[LeeLau]

Hmmm... actually interested in this thing as a spring touring setup. I may have missed it, what's the release date in the US (especially for pros)? What is the mount pattern (does it match any existing tech bindings?)

I believe Dec 2017 but unconfirmed. Will take pictures of mount pattern.

I was thinking the weight would come in lighter. I like the reapplication of the original, simple, tech binding. Could be burly and light.

I almost got some of these as a speed radical replacement, but went with raider 14 heels with radical toes.

https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5049-567/MTN-Binding - $699 Cad. No USD quoted fwiw. Didn't measure with leashes. Will check on leashes themselves

I didn't measure it, but it looks like another 7-8mm in "high" mode. Plus the huge BSL adjustment range will work for all my tech boots, which range from 288mm to 306mm. Plus upward release adjustability via changing the U pins - if it really is ~11 with the Expert spring, as Lou Dawson says, that's an improvement over the SSL.

I forgot to include your writeup which was very comprehensive. Pics in http://www.randosaigai.com/incoming.html

"Salomon MTN Tech Binding

Wandering through the Salmon/Atomic store in Whistler, BC yesterday I spotted a mounted sample of the often talked about but seldom seen Salomon MTN tech binding, and snapped a few pictures. It's an interesting binding that departs from the current crop of burlier and increasingly more complicated "freeride" tech bindings other manufacturers seem to be concentrating on. Essentially a beefier race type binding that relies on old school "U" pins for heel retention but with a normal range of fore-aft adjustment in the heel and a usable high lifter for steeper terrain, the MTN (Atomic will market the same binding as the "Backland") is simple, relatively light, and resolves the problems most race binding users complain about, namely lack of a flat skinning mode, lack of a high touring lifter, and no adjustability for varying boot sole lengths.

An interesting design feature is a stationary top plate and riser assembly with the U-shaped heel pin assembly pivoting underneath to allow lateral release. You turn the U-pin assembly 90 degrees to the side to engage the flat climbing option; otherwise you can just leave the pins facing forward. There are three different U pins available with different release values, though Salomon North America refuses to give any of them a numerical release value (the official reason is liability, as they feel the release characteristics are so different from ISO 9462 values as to be potentially misleading). The U pin choice also regulates the lateral release, and the choices are "women," "men," and "expert". Salomon team riders have reportedly been using the "expert" pins with success, while "men" is recommended for rider weights (with gear) between 130 and 180 lbs. and "women" is recommended for those under 130 lbs. with gear.

The heel track is quite long, and the adjustment range of 30mm would accomodate all five of the tech boots I currently use - 288mm, 297mm, 301mm, 305mm and 306mm. That's a welcome change from the non-existant or very limited adjustment usually found in lighter bindings. Weight is 297 grams per binding, not especially light but nearly 100 grams lighter than the current iteration of the Speed Radical with the anti-twist nubbin installed.

As for availability in the North American market, Salomon NA says they will offer a limited number of bindings in Europe this season but are waiting for a suitable brake to introduce the product in the US. Buyers will be able to use or remove the brake according to their preference, and delivery to US dealers is scheduled to commence in August of 2017."

[gregL]

NA pricing gets so weird. In europe these would compete with the speed radicals, why would they be $700? NA really gets screwed on binding pricing.

My Salomon sources say they will try to bring the price down for the US introduction.

[Johnny Drama]

So THE LARGER QUESTION in my mind is why did salomon choose the minimalist entry point to enter the tech binding market

I'd take a guess that it was because the Rad 2/Vipec/Ion competitor they were working on couldn't get through the din certification.

Salomon was pushing for a more freeride/alpine style, DIN certified binding, similar to the Kingpin that they planned to launch with the QST skis and QST Pro boots. Atomic was less concerned about the freeride touring market and wanted the minimalist tech binding which required far less investment. Salomon simply branded the minimalist binding and launched with their touring products two years ago.

The Salomon free touring binding concept not only couldn't pass DIN cert, it was inferior to the Kingpin; heavier, more complicated, and lower performing (downhill). This was two years ago, no idea if Salomon is still pursuing it or not, but there was a lot of resources sunk into that project with nothing to show to date.

[Lindahl]

They're still working on it

[gregL]

Salomon was pushing for a more freeride/alpine style, DIN certified binding, similar to the Kingpin . . .

I only need an ISO 13992 tech binding with spring-loaded heel a few days a year (usually while travelling) - a burlier "race" style binding with 30mm of fore/aft adjustment, forward release value >10, and a legit high riser position would get lots of use.

[XavierD]

Salomon is still working on another touring binding or two.

[Lindahl]

I only need an ISO 13992 tech binding with spring-loaded heel a few days a year (usually while travelling) - a burlier "race" style binding with 30mm of fore/aft adjustment, forward release value >10, and a legit high riser position would get lots of use.

What needs to be burlier?

[gregL]

What needs to be burlier?

If I'm using it more than a few days a year, I think steel toe wings, beefier heel pivot and housing, and bigger (or twice as many) heel risers are worth carrying uphill. The simplicity and lack of moving parts in a basic, race-style "U" spring design appeal to me, though.

[Jstewss]

Cody Townsend and friends can be seen using these new binders in the edit on the front page of TGR right now..

http://www.tetongravity.com/video/sk...ines-in-nevada

[Cosmic Suncloud]

Weight is 10 oz. per, or 570 gr. for the pair without the leashes and screws. Mounting pattern is about (W/L) toe 40/38, heel 28/57.5. Will be used on bigger skis. SSL’s, RT’s are awesome, but maybe not for the big boot/big ski combo and/or heavy use. Wepa’s could be cool.

[LeeLau]

Weight is 10 oz. per, or 570 gr. for the pair without the leashes and screws. Mounting pattern is about (W/L) toe 40/38, heel 28/57.5. Will be used on bigger skis. SSL’s, RT’s are awesome, but maybe not for the big boot/big ski combo and/or heavy use. Wepa’s could be cool.

Yah that weight makes sense. Mine were 313 for one or 626 for the pair but with leashes and w/o screws. Just got back from Guatemala so got to remember to post pics of the mount pattern

[LeeLau]

Would love to see some rocker pics of those MTN Explore 88's when you get a chance, Lee. I've read they have a bit less tip and a bit more tail rocker than the 95's, but I haven't seen them in person to see what that actually looks like.

As for this binding, I like it. Seems to have all of what I personally use and none of what I don't. Like that you can just flip the risers over the pins for a quick climb. That kind of little thing adds up on the big days, I find.

Here's the rocker pics of the Mtn Explore skis. With 200cms new in a week I've taken out bigger skis for now though

Left is the tip rocker. Right is tail

[m-ruta]

Thanks. Surprising amount of tail splay.

Ended up putting a set of MTN pins on Blizzard Zero G 95's. First impression: it looks like the skis and bindings were made by the same company. Just beautiful.

Stepping into the expert spring feels firm. Like, really firm. Noticably more so than my Ions at 11. The assembly is tough to turn as the expert pins have a shorter housing that gives less leverage.

The whole thing has a feeling of solidness that I appriciate. There is some play in the worm screw, which lends a bit of a rattle to the proceedings. Thinking I might try to put some heavy lithium grease in there, though it's no more disconcerting than the usual dynafit pin rattle and I'm not sure I'll feel it while skiing.

Hoping to take them out to play tomorrow.

[Roberto]

Quick user report here. Mounted them on a pair of Anima Freebirds. Generally pretty impressed/not many surprises with such a simple tech binding. Appreciate the wider screw pattern for wider skis; I'm sure some will gripe about the lack of brakes but no real concerns if you skin off with your skis on and are the type to lock the toes upon decent.

Snow/ice does build up fairly easily in the toe piece...more so than my ions but to be expected when mounted flat to ski. Flat mode is great and in my opinion essential for any serious tech binder, two other risers are spot on height wise and very sturdy/easy to use with pole grips. Heel peices are a little tricky to spin back into ski mode leveraging your pole grip off your boots but can be done. "Men" spring appears to be enough for most skiers needs...I'm 6 ft and 160 so not the heaviest rider but have hit some 15-20 ft airs and pillow lines on them with no issues. Only real gripe would be that swapping any of the u heel pieces for the "expert" one essentially negates a flat touring mode option on account of them being near impossible to turn the heel piece in the field.

Overall quite impressed as a low weight fairly burly tech option, I'd say the "men" spring is about a 10-12 din. Even found myself in Revelstoke without a downhill setup ripping groomers with them ( wouldn't recommend making a habit of it but can be done; expect typical tech molar jarring lack of elasticity on chop or hard snow)

End novella!

[LeeLau]

Thx M-ruta and Roberto

Seen this? Brakes out in Europe for binding

http://www.barrabes.world/salomon-to...d=282684&opt=d

[Roberto]

Yeah, tempting...can't imagine it being too pricey to ship over. Apparently brakes won't be available here till next season.

[Cosmic Suncloud]

The backlands have a nice solid feel (though haven't really skied anything bigish), easy to operate.
When testing got about 9.5 on the M's, about 11 on the EX (bsl 307). Gave the W's to the wife for a x-mas present, told her they were earrings.

[adrenalated]

Bump.

So where can I buy these things that they will ship to the US, ideally on sale for ~$300 USD or less? Telemark-Pyrenees is around $400 and since I already own Speed Radicals it's not worth that much to me to save 5oz. Barrabes has 'em on sale but won't ship them to the US.

[LeeLau]

Yes - I should've taken a picture. The heel rotates. You can flip up the lifters with the pole. Can't figure out how to rotate the heel back to ski without lifting the ski back up (for rip the skins quick transitions) but I'll try different ways when I get them mounted

Thought I would update. Push or whack the heel piece and it goes from sideways/tour mode back to ski. Theres enough spring in the mech it doesnt autorotate like old Comfort/vertical heels when the heelpieces snowball. But not so much spring that it's easy to get back into ski mode without having to take off skis

22 days on them so far. No issues but all touring. There are some others in the Whistler area also skiing them in mix of inbounds and touring without issues but with less days

[rewbn]

Any word on hole overlap with Speed Radicals?

[LeeLau]

Any word on hole overlap with Speed Radicals?

Ah forgot. Wider at toe so lots of clearance. Baseplate has 2mm clearance for holes so no interference. I'll check exact measurements and update against Radical and Comforts/Vertical.

Unfortunately Dynafit in their infinite wisdom has different hole patterns so Ill limit it

[LeeLau]

and here's the review - http://www.doglotion.com/salomon-bac...s-mtn-lab-boot