Vwerks katana vs bmt109

**japanada** · 10-21-2016, 09:28 PM

Title says it all. Both the carbon versions, shop sponsored so cost doesnt matter cause i ride hard as fuck here in ohio obv. Loved the old katanas. Wondering what the concensus says here. Will have kingpins on em. What say you all?

**japanada** · 10-21-2016, 09:29 PM

Insert sarcasm along side advice here ____________

**otto parts** · 10-21-2016, 10:27 PM

You spelled spancered wrong.

Oh yeah, Go Blue!

**rod9301** · 10-22-2016, 12:30 AM

I have the metal katana for resort and the carbon for backcountry.

They are absurdly similar, perhaps the carbon may?? get deflected a bit more in crud, but so little it doesn't matter.

Great edge good on ice.
The bmt is less stiff torsionally, so perhaps less hold on ice, which for me was important.

**Wetdog** · 10-22-2016, 02:33 AM

Demoed them both last spring. They're very similar. Katana is more powerful and directional, BMT a bit more finesse, but could still push it hard. BMT is lighter and would make a better back country ski while Katana would be a better resort crossover ski. Both hold an edge on ice very well. I bought the Katana as a 50% resort 50% backcountry ski with Kingpins.

**markcjr** · 10-22-2016, 06:52 AM

Vwerks katana with kingpins for day tours and pow seeking missions and going faster down the fall line. Vwerks bmt 109 with full tech bindings for longer tours/multi day tours/wake up and your legs are tired tours, and being able to slarve your turns more.

**turnfarmer** · 10-22-2016, 08:08 PM

I haven't skied the Katana Vwerks, but had the same debate. Differences I could determine- Katana torsionally stiffer, but BMT no wimp torsionally,
Katana has sidecut all the way through tip while BMT has taper. Concluded Katana would be better on groomers/hard snow, BMT better in soft, more slarvy as stated above. Bought BMTs but uncounted so that's all I can input.

**turnfarmer** · 10-22-2016, 08:19 PM

Stupid autocorrect- unmounted

**Lindahl** · 10-22-2016, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by rod9301

They are absurdly similar, perhaps the carbon may?? get deflected a bit more in crud, but so little it doesn't matter.

Wait, what? You're off your rocker. Pretty big difference. Carbon is good for its weight but still deflects a lot compared.

**rod9301** · 10-23-2016, 10:27 AM

Ok, but not in my experience, and I skied them for two seasons.

**Wetdog** · 10-23-2016, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Wait, what? You're off your rocker. Pretty big difference. Carbon is good for its weight but still deflects a lot compared.

I was pretty impressed by the performance of the Carbon Katana in variable conditions and cut up crud. Never skied the metal one, but have plenty of experience with other big metal skis and the Carbon Katanas are impressive. What is most impressive is that you get such good performance and power without the energy expenditure of skiing heavier skis.

**Sillygoat** · 10-25-2016, 07:55 PM

I would tend to agreed with Mr. Lindahl. I have only skied the carbon katana 191... and compared the good ol' metal layup it is a totally different ski. Perhaps I was expecting too much
I it was one of the hardest skis to slow down that i have ever skied. I must include I have only tried it on very firm snow. A chattery slightly out of control feeling at mach looney speeds is not ideal... but I'm used to just trusting the bindings. I can deal with a dull or a loose feeling ski... so long as I can slow it down.
When I decided to test the brakes and throw them sideways, they just wouldn't bite... It wasn't like the stopping distance was 20-30% longer... They "chatter-planed" ... for what felt like 2-3 times the amount of time it would have taken a regular katana to dump its speed.... imagine the idea of hydroplaning on a car, just complete lack of contact with the surface. It didn't seem to matter if I leaned into them, they just bent slightly more and continued to vibrate-away any hope of edge-hold. It was at this point that I started to giggle a little... I was kinda blown away at how bad they were... Mind you... with a large asterisk ... This was very hard snow. I bet they are great on the way up. And they are probably much easier to take in an out of the roof box... One wouldn't want to over-exert themselves.

**Gunder** · 10-25-2016, 08:23 PM

The BMT is more playfull then the katana. The Katana feels more like a highspeed charging race ski.

**Wetdog** · 10-26-2016, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Sillygoat

I would tend to agreed with Mr. Lindahl. I have only skied the carbon katana 191... and compared the good ol' metal layup it is a totally different ski. Perhaps I was expecting too much
I it was one of the hardest skis to slow down that i have ever skied. I must include I have only tried it on very firm snow. A chattery slightly out of control feeling at mach looney speeds is not ideal... but I'm used to just trusting the bindings. I can deal with a dull or a loose feeling ski... so long as I can slow it down.
When I decided to test the brakes and throw them sideways, they just wouldn't bite... It wasn't like the stopping distance was 20-30% longer... They "chatter-planed" ... for what felt like 2-3 times the amount of time it would have taken a regular katana to dump its speed.... imagine the idea of hydroplaning on a car, just complete lack of contact with the surface. It didn't seem to matter if I leaned into them, they just bent slightly more and continued to vibrate-away any hope of edge-hold. It was at this point that I started to giggle a little... I was kinda blown away at how bad they were... Mind you... with a large asterisk ... This was very hard snow. I bet they are great on the way up. And they are probably much easier to take in an out of the roof box... One wouldn't want to over-exert themselves.

Weird, I tested them on bullet proof ice and was blown away by how well they performed, both in a carve or dumping speed. Granted they were a touch chattery in an intense slide to dump speed, but nothing terrible. Maybe you had a tune problem? Edges too sharp, too dull or the wrong angle? I had a similar issue demoing a different pair of skis that the tuners had forgotten to bevel the base side of the edges. Overall, I was surprised how good the Katana were in conditions they were never intended to perform in, namely hard pack and ice.

**rod9301** · 10-26-2016, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Wetdog

Weird, I tested them on bullet proof ice and was blown away by how well they performed, both in a carve or dumping speed. Granted they were a touch chattery in an intense slide to dump speed, but nothing terrible. Maybe you had a tune problem? Edges too sharp, too dull or the wrong angle? I had a similar issue demoing a different pair of skis that the tuners had forgotten to bevel the base side of the edges. Overall, I was surprised how good the Katana were in conditions they were never intended to perform in, namely hard pack and ice.

yeah, they are really good on ice.

**zion zig zag** · 12-20-2017, 01:26 PM

Getting ready to mount some light weight pin binders on the v-werks katana. 100% bc ski. This thread has me wondering if I should be looking to trade someone for the 109's.

edit: I think the lack of snow is causing me to obsess over reviews more than is healthy

**rod9301** · 12-20-2017, 01:48 PM

No, you can't find a better ski than katanas.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

**lazyasian** · 12-20-2017, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by rod9301

No, you can't find a better ski than katanas.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

Agreed. The Katanas are money. Love ‘em.

**Tri-Ungulate** · 12-21-2017, 09:20 PM

Have never tried the BMT109s and have no interest in them, so take my opinion with that in mind. That being said, the carbonKs are pretty much my quiver of one when I travel. Done plenty of tours on them, in numerous locales, under all conditions (though no über-marathon Greg Hill sessions FWIW), and I have never ever regretted not having the tradeoff of a slightly lighter, slightly more slarvy ski in the 109 than the power and control I currently have in the Katanas. I do like that I can rely on them in all conditions, regardless of steepness or terrain, whether the snow is dodgy icy or soft and deep.

Flyk, I think you'll be happy with your current carbonK's regardless.

**roQer** · 12-22-2017, 03:56 AM

Don‘t forget to mount them at +2, at least in the 191 length. The recommended line is absurdly far back.

**lazyasian** · 12-22-2017, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate

Have never tried the BMT109s and have no interest in them, so take my opinion with that in mind. That being said, the carbonKs are pretty much my quiver of one when I travel. Done plenty of tours on them, in numerous locales, under all conditions (though no über-marathon Greg Hill sessions FWIW), and I have never ever regretted not having the tradeoff of a slightly lighter, slightly more slarvy ski in the 109 than the power and control I currently have in the Katanas. I do like that I can rely on them in all conditions, regardless of steepness or terrain, whether the snow is dodgy icy or soft and deep.

Flyk, I think you'll be happy with your current carbonK's regardless.

Agreed. I also have only the carbokatanas and I think they handle all conditions amazingly well for a ski of their weight. Still don’t understand how they do so well in chop while still coming in at a light weight for touring AND being so easy to turn in tight spaces.

That being said, they’re not the strongest Ski out there. I hit a rock early season and got an edge compression/delam. Brought them into the shop where I was told that this was one of several he had already seen on carbokatanas this season (at that point in early December). So be careful if you play around with them in low tide conditions!

**rod9301** · 12-22-2017, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by roQer

Don‘t forget to mount them at +2, at least in the 191 length. The recommended line is absurdly far back.

Very true

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

**zion zig zag** · 12-22-2017, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate

Have never tried the BMT109s and have no interest in them, so take my opinion with that in mind. That being said, the carbonKs are pretty much my quiver of one when I travel. Done plenty of tours on them, in numerous locales, under all conditions (though no über-marathon Greg Hill sessions FWIW), and I have never ever regretted not having the tradeoff of a slightly lighter, slightly more slarvy ski in the 109 than the power and control I currently have in the Katanas. I do like that I can rely on them in all conditions, regardless of steepness or terrain, whether the snow is dodgy icy or soft and deep.

Flyk, I think you'll be happy with your current carbonK's regardless.

Sweet, thanks L.

**zion zig zag** · 12-22-2017, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by roQer

Don‘t forget to mount them at +2, at least in the 191 length. The recommended line is absurdly far back.

What about for the 184? This ski will be my powder/mid winter touring ski as I have a zero g 95 for spring/hardpack. 6', 170 with no gear btw.

**Merlyn** · 12-22-2017, 12:45 PM

Took mine out for the first time this season this morning. I'm still amazed at how well they perform in a wide range of conditions - super versatile.

184, mounted with Kingpins on the line. The mount looks very rearward but I've got no complaints with how they ski.