Gender Inequality in Skiing

[Norseman]

With a new baby girl, I find this topic in my mind most of the time. Thanks for chiming in, Buster and Klar... your views align with mine and are encouraging.

What will she enjoy? How will she react to life's obstacles? How do I help her discover her strengths and overcome gender role stereotypes along the way? We'll see.

I think 'fun' is the key. A strong, intelligent mother as role model will likely play a big part, too, like with your fam, B.

[Buster Highmen]

With a new baby girl, I find this topic in my mind most of the time. Thanks for chiming in, Buster and Klar... your views align with mine and are encouraging.

What will she enjoy? How will she react to life's obstacles? How do I help her discover her strengths and overcome gender role stereotypes along the way? We'll see.

I think 'fun' is the key. A strong, intelligent mother, too.

Yup, like the Beatles said, All You Need Is Love.

You're a smart guy and I can tell you get it, so I wouldn't worry. You'll see what she needs and do what you can.

I wasn't really prepared for some of the gutwrenchers. I mean, you know them intellectually, but when I saw the playground shit where little girls shoved my daughter, called her stupid and ran away, it just about killed me. Hopefully that won't occur to you, but events have come to pass where my abundancy and faith in the human race has been dampened from my romantic hippy heights.

[klar]

What will she enjoy? How will she react to life's obstacles? How do I help her discover her strengths and overcome gender role stereotypes along the way? We'll see.

I think 'fun' is the key. A strong, intelligent mother as role model will likely play a big part, too, like with your fam, B.

Yeah Norseman, don't worry. Buster already said the important stuff, I think.

Looking back on how I grew up, I'd maybe make the following points:

Strong female role models are important, but so are male role models (Hello, Dad.) who respect the strong females and appreciate them for their strength (among other things).

You may wish there was no equality issue, but there is. I think that it is a good idea to tell them proactively and often that they can achieve whatever they want, regardless of what „typically female“ might look like. Don’t assume they know this. Get her that toy truck/chemistry set/kiddie bow and arrows. If she ends up hating it fine, but make sure she knows what sort of options there are. Don’t expect her to somehow discover them on her own, even if you might have.

Talk to them about nasty shit before it happens, because it is very likely going to happen in some form or other. (along the lines of "If a weird guy rubs up to you on the bus, don’t ignore it, yell as loud as you fucking can“)

Once they get a bit older the pressure to be pretty and skinny and the potentially resulting body issues are very real. Take this seriously.


As for the sports stuff:

Almost all of my daddy-daughter bonding experiences happened doing cool stuff outside. He took me hiking/camping/skiing etc as soon as I could walk (carried me before that) and made sure I considered it part of normal life to be out and about in the mountains and generally active. Helps with confidence and all sorts of things, imo. (Obviously this is not girl-specific)

If your kid ends up liking dolls and frilly dresses, this is not in any way related to how much of a bad ass she will be. You can kick ass in a pink snow suit with sparkles just as well as in any other outfit. I feel like there is a bit of an expectation for „serious“ female skiers/mountaineers/whatever to dress and act in a more stereotypically „masculine“ way, or at least to not accentuate their female traits as much. This is just as stupid as expecting "typically female" outfits/behaviour. (fwiw I was always more on the tomboy end of the spectrum and still pretty much am)

[geo039]

Yeah Norseman, don't worry. Buster already said the important stuff, I think.

Looking back on how I grew up, I'd maybe make the following points:

Strong female role models are important, but so are male role models (Hello, Dad.) who respect the strong females and appreciate them for their strength (among other things).

You may wish there was no equality issue, but there is. I think that it is a good idea to tell them proactively and often that they can achieve whatever they want, regardless of what „typically female“ might look like. Don’t assume they know this. Get her that toy truck/chemistry set/kiddie bow and arrows. If she ends up hating it fine, but make sure she knows what sort of options there are. Don’t expect her to somehow discover them on her own, even if you might have.

Talk to them about nasty shit before it happens, because it is very likely going to happen in some form or other. (along the lines of "If a weird guy rubs up to you on the bus, don’t ignore it, yell as loud as you fucking can“)

Once they get a bit older the pressure to be pretty and skinny and the potentially resulting body issues are very real. Take this seriously.


As for the sports stuff:

Almost all of my daddy-daughter bonding experiences happened doing cool stuff outside. He took me hiking/camping/skiing etc as soon as I could walk (carried me before that) and made sure I considered it part of normal life to be out and about in the mountains and generally active. Helps with confidence and all sorts of things, imo. (Obviously this is not girl-specific)

If your kid ends up liking dolls and frilly dresses, this is not in any way related to how much of a bad ass she will be. You can kick ass in a pink snow suit with sparkles just as well as in any other outfit. I feel like there is a bit of an expectation for „serious“ female skiers/mountaineers/whatever to dress and act in a more stereotypically „masculine“ way, or at least to not accentuate their female traits as much. This is just as stupid as expecting "typically female" outfits/behaviour. (fwiw I was always more on the tomboy end of the spectrum and still pretty much am)

Thanks Klar. Notes taken for little gg and kg

[old goat]

We don't have a TV and don't belong to clubs or social scenes. We are nonmainstream, my wife doesn't wear dresses often, doesn't wear makeup or get her hair or nails done or any of that establishment shit. She rips on skis too and wields a mean power tool. Yet my daughter wanted pink.

It was so weird to watch where my son rejected teddy bears and plush toys, but went straight for the tools and trucks. My wife is better with the skil saw than I am. My daughter totally went for the plush toys and frilly stuff, so I think a lot of it is just the way the come out. We, as parents, might put some frosting or shit on it, but in the nature vs nuture argument, there's a lot to be said for nature.

That said, the point is to let them be, nudge them to find what they love and can reflect self respect and self value independent of sex.

It's obvious that western society shits on females; there's so much obvious misogyny everywhere, especially on TGR. Some of the social compensation is over the top too, but there's a long way to go getting rid of misogyny.

Well said--but as far as misogyny on TGR--Buster Highmen? : )

As men do worse and women do better, misogyny increases. As minorities do better racism gets worse.

[Buster Highmen]

Well said--but as far as misogyny on TGR--Buster Highmen? : ).

The st00pidity is supposed to trump the misogyny. YMMV, but so far, all the women I know think it's hysterical. Get it...hysterical.

[jackstraw]

It was so weird to watch where my son rejected teddy bears and plush toys, but went straight for the tools and trucks. My wife is better with the skil saw than I am. My daughter totally went for the plush toys and frilly stuff, so I think a lot of it is just the way the come out. We, as parents, might put some frosting or shit on it, but in the nature vs nuture argument, there's a lot to be said for nature.

I absolutely agree as I have other examples exactly just like that. These tendencies are way before K and even preschool with parents that have tried their best to be neutral with their influences. Which is extremely difficult if not impossible to certain extent.

Girls and girls, boys and boys, girls and boys, men and men, women and women, women and men are all very different...I think. Citing studies is rather humorous imo with 7 billion or so of us running around.

[Buster Highmen]

As minorities do better racism gets worse.

I don't think I really agree with this.

I'm not trying to trivialize racism and there's still a lot of racism more subtle than bubbas noose and pitchfork, overall I think racism has gotten less prevalent.
Obama is proof in a way. Racism is no where near as accepted as it was even 20 years ago.

Let's hope similarly for misogyny.

[old goat]

The st00pidity is supposed to trump the misogyny. YMMV, but so far, all the women I know think it's hysterical. Get it...hysterical.

well done

[summit]

I really like buster and Klar posts.

I don't think I really agree with this.

I'm not trying to trivialize racism and there's still a lot of racism more subtle than bubbas noose and pitchfork, overall I think racism has gotten less prevalent.
Obama is proof in a way. Racism is no where near as accepted as it was even 20 years ago.

Let's hope similarly for misogyny.

I agree. I think that success highlights what remains more overtly and enables the denormalization of these prejudices. It might make it seem like things are getting worse but I think that is a combination of media focus and the kicking and screaming of those being dragged in to the new world