Casting without a fly line, what could possibly go wrong?

[Jong Lafitte]

So I've been in the mood to try using a long leader and fish with just the leader in the guides and no line out from the reel for fishing nymph rigs.

I thought I'd go something like:

20' #20 - um, regular mono? Something like Maxima Chameleon?, what about Stren Gold? Amnesia? anything better?
2' #12 - figuring just regular 'clear' mono here eh?
18" 2x bi-color hi vis (or curly-que)
3x/4x/5x level Tippet to depth/current

Any suggestions on that construction would be helpful.

Anybody else try fishing nymphs with a leader like this? The idea would be to fish close enough that the fly line doesn't get so far as the first guide from the reel, the rest is just mono. So, what could possibly go wrong? Thanks!

Edit, sorry, intended rod would be an 8'9" 5wt medium action or a 9'-0" 5wt medium action. Thanks!

[plugboots]

If you Google around you'll find that there are some real hard-core nymphers that don't use fly line at all, they just use mono so that it sinks better and they don't get weird drag.

[Underoos]

The tenkara rods are over in aisle 5, next to the snowblades.

[DeathVan]

Sounds like you are looking for a 10+ ft. tactical spinning rod.

Scented Gulp! baits with embedded glitter on swim jigs will annihilate your mono nymphing.

Next level yo!

[plugboots]

^^^I had a Loomis 10' 4 for high stick nymphing. But if you use scent bait whatever why not just use dynamite.

[skifishbum]

other than wasting flyfishing time spinfishing nymphs with a fly rod and showing up in the salt needing to present flies in a manner conducive of catching bones permits poons i don't see anything possibly going wrong

[KenJongIll]

There's an Orvis podcast about this. Seems to be common among competition fishers. Doesn't sound appealing to me, but if your interested it would probably be worth a listen.

Here it is. FF to 30:00 for interview.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=366455835

[Jong Lafitte]

Plug and Ken, thanks! I'll look into that stuff for sure. As for the nay-sayers: My long time friend said basically the same things when I told him the idea, so I guess I'm in some good company here too.

Pretty much feel like I have to at least try it now or I'll have given in but I see the validity in the arguments against fucking with it. I'll probably hate it, tie my old leader back on and proceed but maybe I'll learn something.

[Jong Lafitte]

Well, I tried it out on the Blue yesterday with an 8'9" medium action rod and floating DT line. Had it on for about 2 hours. I tied up:

~30' of 20# big game .018"
2.5' of Stren Gold 12 lb .013"
1.5' of Rio Power Flex mono 1x .010"
8" Umpqua hi vis red 2x .009"
Tied above to a tippet ring and tied a high-vis sighter (curly cue in this case) to that, about 18", then, ran tippet (4x) to depth below the sighter (here was between 3' and 5' to first bug). I've been using thicker tippet lately, I think 5x would be more ideal but... anyway... Then tied a tag + anchor style rig off by tying 5x to the tippet and leaving a 6" tag of the 4x, tied an emerger (18-22) to the tag, then dropped an anchor (BH pheasant tail, maybe a 14) about 18" down on the 5x.

This gave me enough to cast out about 20-25' before the fly line was into the first guide. I sorta accidentally made it just about the right length. Any more mono would not have been needed unless I could add even more weight to cast further but the stream is quite shallow right now, leaving that option unavailable. More mono would have led to line management issues. Having the fly line there kept down on the coil mess.

I had planned to not really let my buddy see me trying this and to deny doing it if confronted. I was, however, quickly discovered because it was taking me too fucking long to tie up the terminal part of the rig below the tippet ring. I was quickly outed and criticized. I was told that it was the most 'hipster' leader anybody he'd been fishing with had ever used in fly fishing. I believe he also asked if we should go to wally and get a spin reel.

So I went about trying to cast it as I had on Friday in the yard. Obviously, you have to rely on the weight of the bug or soft weight to basically 'pull' the leader behind it. A standard roll casting stroke would result in basically throwing the rig straight into the air, so I was needing lots space behind me to get it out into the current. You got to water load it and flick it up stream with a real open loop. Getting lots of leader onto the water by dropping the rod tip was helping to load the rod more. You can also 'back cast' with an open loop and flick it back forward. This all results in lots of moving around and deep wading. With a fly line, I can often water load directly behind me but still cast it out several feet into the current by changing direction during the forward, upstream, cast. This is way more difficult with the mono rig.

It did one thing well, which was tight line through some pocket water and some deeper holes without the fly line pulling the bug back towards me nearly as much as with fly line out. It was actually pretty fucking outstanding in this regard. The control is very good, which is obviously better as your drifts get closer to your rod tip. That said, you have some pretty good control even (maybe) 8-10' out into the stream from the tip of the rod. When the bugs are in the current and its pulling the rig away from the rod, rather than dragging up and out towards the rod and they're staying right in the seam, its pretty nice. It also seemed to allow me to just raise rod tip up to keep the line tight, rather than having to raise the whole rod and hold it level to keep the line from pulling back.

Another possible advantage is that if "cast," it laid out very delicately when cast at a 'distance' of 15-20 feet. It also allowed me to dead drift with the leader floating on the water but at distance it did not seem ideal for this because of it being difficult (but not impossible) to mend the mono (a reach mend i think is the best you can hope for). I could see this working when there are lots of sections of shallow glass, but, that's not where we were fishing.

I assumed that this would not be a very versatile rig. It is not. Its less versatile than I thought, but my skills with it are very limited, so I'm sure that you can obviously throw way better than I was. It nails tight lining at a pretty good distance and will absolutely help with the bugs getting dragged back towards the angler. It was also not as enjoyable (surprise!), to me at least, as using the fly line weight to cast. Its not as relaxing because you have to really be humping it around more than if you can cast out a few extra feet. I wound up changing over to a regular knotless 9' 4x for the rest of the day.

[plugboots]

It really is a tight line high stick nymphing technique, I believe. Upper Sacramento, 3 dollar bridge of the Madison kind of thing. The takes feel pretty cool. Instant feel. Might be even cooler with all fluoro.

[Jong Lafitte]

There's an Orvis podcast about this. Seems to be common among competition fishers. Doesn't sound appealing to me, but if your interested it would probably be worth a listen.

Here it is. FF to 30:00 for interview.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=366455835

Thanks for posting that. That interview is worth a listen, for sure. I didn't listen to it before I went out and it would have especially changed the type of water I focused on a bit. Listening to that makes me want to tie the long leader back on when I see the right type of water.

It really is a tight line high stick nymphing technique, I believe. Upper Sacramento, 3 dollar bridge of the Madison kind of thing. The takes feel pretty cool. Instant feel. Might be even cooler with all fluoro.

Looking back, and, listening to that interview, the second section that I fished with the 'normal' leader probably had more spots that were good for tight lining than the first area. Looks like I was a little too determined to try it... lol...

[highangle]

Just put a fkn spinning reel on your fly rod, & spin cast that shit.