Tech bindings

[bigdude2468]

Dumping my FRP's for some real AT binders. The Fritschi Vipec look good but searching Tech Talk it sounds like the first edition had issues with the pins coming loose or breaking. BC has Vipec's on sale but I think they have the suspect toe piece. BD has them at twice the BC price. I think I also read that Dynafit is dropping the Radical ST & FT, any advice?

[sethschmautz]

I think it would be helpful to talk about where you ski, how much you tour, typical tour length, sidecountry vs backcountry, etc.

Oh, and get the red ones.

[GeezerSteve]

Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0 is the best for the buck tech binding, $187 + shipping from Telemark-Pyrenees

[gregL]

How big a dude are you, and what do you set your Freeride Pros at? Speed Turn 2.0 might work for a smooth and experienced skier like Big Steve, but not all big guys will be satisfied with the retention. Radical ST and FT are being dropped next season in favor of the 2.0 counterparts with rotating toes, but there are plenty around still.

[gregL]

PS The sale Vipecs at BC.com are the second generation "white" version, with the swapped toe pin location and wire locking feature - even though Fritschi didn't submit them to the TÜV for testing doesn't mean they aren't a good binding, this version solves most of the problems you read about.

The ones at Black Diamond are the current TÜV (also called "black") version with a revised toepiece which do have ISO 13992 certification, but I would hesitate to say they are twice as good (though stepping into them is a bit easier).

[Meadow Skipper]

Because this is what we do here, I'm going to tell you that I'm very happy with my latest purchase - the G3 Ion - and that you should do what I do. IME, it's smooth, has less ramp angle than Dynafit, and (for me so far) trouble-free. Unless I run into unexpected troubles down the line, the Ion will continue to replace Dynafits in my stable. There are tons of reviews and thoughts online, even here on TRG, so I'll just say check it out.

[neck beard]

+1 G3 ION.

Though it has one lasting design flaw that is a problem on multiple day spring or melt-freeze tours where you can't melt-out and dry the binding heel mechanism overnight.

[mall walker]

+1 Speed Turns. I'm on Speed Radicals, having also used Radical STs and SSL (the OG red ones), all with a max retention of 10. I have yet to have a single prerelease on any of the 3 bindings. I did once have the toe pop out while traversing but it was largely because I knocked the release lever against a buried root. I'm 5'10" 155lbs though so ymmv, but a RV of 10 + locked toes = pretty bomber. Plenty of heavier guys I ski with using the same gear. For a touring-only setup don't bother with brakes.

[bigdude2468]

Because this is what we do here, I'm going to tell you that I'm very happy with my latest purchase - the G3 Ion - and that you should do what I do. IME, it's smooth, has less ramp angle than Dynafit, and (for me so far) trouble-free. Unless I run into unexpected troubles down the line, the Ion will continue to replace Dynafits in my stable. There are tons of reviews and thoughts online, even here on TRG, so I'll just say check it out.

The Ion was also on my short list. The ramp angle of the FRP's sucks so perhaps the G3 with less angle that Dynafits makes sense.

Thanks for the tip.

[Lindahl]

If you care about finishing your turns and getting power and response out of the tail of the ski, the only option imo is the Kingpin. It skis significantly better than all other options on the market.

Otherwise I'd go as lightweight as you can get away with. This means Speed Superlights if you don't need a high riser, or Speed Turn/Radical if you don't need a RV of 12, otherwise look at the Vipec, Radical 2.0 and Ion.

The only deviation I'd make from this recommendation is that if you're pushing your skiing in powder conditions, I'd go Vipec, hands down. The lateral toe release guards against significant ankle and tib/fib injuries that the other bindings don't.

I've also been working on a review shootout between the heavier bindings for blistergearreview.com. We've started posting the data we've collected and will be adding additional information over the next few weeks, so check it out if you're so inclined.

[XavierD]

The ion gets my vote as the 'best' tech binding out there right now. It skis significantly better than anything lighter or less expensive. The forward pressure, and flatter ramp angle give it a much better ski feel than any of the traditional tech bindings. I honestly think it skis better than Radical 2.0s too. The ion also comes in lighter than any of the other new tech bindings (Beast, Kingpin, Radical 2.0, Vipec). Combine its good compromise between weight and performance with a pretty reasonable price point and you get a great binding option.

Only reason I wouldn't get it is for a light weight multi day spring set up where I would look at superlights.

[bigdude2468]

If you care about finishing your turns and getting power and response out of the tail of the ski, the only option imo is the Kingpin. It skis significantly better than all other options on the market.

Otherwise I'd go as lightweight as you can get away with. This means Speed Superlights if you don't need a high riser, or Speed Turn/Radical if you don't need a RV of 12, otherwise look at the Vipec, Radical 2.0 and Ion.

The only deviation I'd make from this recommendation is that if you're pushing your skiing in powder conditions, I'd go Vipec, hands down. The lateral toe release guards against significant ankle and tib/fib injuries that the other bindings don't.

I've also been working on a review shootout between the heavier bindings for blistergearreview.com. We've started posting the data we've collected and will be adding additional information over the next few weeks, so check it out if you're so inclined.

Will check out Blister and yes skin plenty of powder. Seeing as how these are going on Moment Underworld's anything Blister recommends would be a good match

[Lindahl]

The ion gets my vote as the 'best' tech binding out there right now. It skis significantly better than anything lighter or less expensive. The forward pressure, and flatter ramp angle give it a much better ski feel than any of the traditional tech bindings. I honestly think it skis better than Radical 2.0s too. The ion also comes in lighter than any of the other new tech bindings (Beast, Kingpin, Radical 2.0, Vipec). Combine its good compromise between weight and performance with a pretty reasonable price point and you get a great binding option.

Only reason I wouldn't get it is for a light weight multi day spring set up where I would look at superlights.

Like the Vipec and Radical 2.0, the Ion doesn't have forward pressure. The heel is setup with a miniscule gap, and it travels on a spring when the ski flexes. Only the Kingpin has forward pressure.

The Ion has a higher ramp angle than the Vipec and Kingpin.

On our scale, the Vipec was the lightest, by about 60g each. The Ion was within 10g of the Radical 2.0, and the Kingpin was about 180g heavier than the Vipec and 120g heavier than the Ion.

Like I had mentioned, if you're in this weight class, I feel like the Kingpin is WELL worth the extra weight and money, unless you want the safety of the Vipec.

We also felt that the Vipec skis at least slightly better than the Ion and Radical 2.0, but the differences are pretty small. You felt more connected to the ski, similar to the Kingpin, but to a significantly lesser degree (none of the power). I did feel the Ion was more precise (and harsher) than the Radical 2.0, but some may prefer the softer feel of the Radical still. The differences here are even smaller.

[neck beard]

Will check out Blister and yes skin plenty of powder. Seeing as how these are going on Moment Underworld's anything Blister recommends would be a good match

Blister and backcountry. Be a mild sceptic. Don't take for granted that the reviewer(s) actually ski tour frequently enough in a wide range of conditions to review the touring performance of the bindings. Four bindings models x perhaps 40 days of touring on each model x winter and spring conditions = numerous seasons before an informed opinion is possible.

On the other hand, their downhill performance review will carry more weight. The Kingpin heel is an obvious winner in that regard. I wish it was lighter.

[XavierD]

Like the Vipec and Radical 2.0, the Ion doesn't have forward pressure. The heel is setup with a miniscule gap, and it travels on a spring when the ski flexes.

so they have forward pressure as soon as you lean into them

Ion can be had without a brake.
Ion LT weighs 483g
Radical 2.0 ST weighs 559g-651g depending on brake size
Vipec black wieghs 612gr (wildsnow) and is made out of legos so its gonna break
Kingpin weighs more, and is made by marker so will be sloppy after a year of hard use.

hope you aren't using that scale for drug buys, or maybe hit the zero button every now and then.

[GeezerSteve]

Speed Turn 2.0: 340g per binding

[sfotex]

Blister and backcountry. ......... 40 days of resort skiing on each model .

Fixed it for you.

[Lindahl]

so they have forward pressure as soon as you lean into them

Ion can be had without a brake.
Ion LT weighs 483g
Radical 2.0 ST weighs 559g-651g depending on brake size
Vipec black wieghs 612gr (wildsnow) and is made out of legos so its gonna break
Kingpin weighs more, and is made by marker so will be sloppy after a year of hard use.

hope you aren't using that scale for drug buys, or maybe hit the zero button every now and then.

Someone's fiesty.

I would not say they have forward pressure at all. The tail has to bend, and then it gives in. Who knows how strong the spring is, it could easily be very weak (feels that way). The idea of the spring is to keep a constant gap (~zero) for release reasons, not constant forward pressure for power and response. Either way, the Ion skis very weak and vague in the back of the ski, as does everything but the Kingpin. It could be the pins or spring. Not sure. But its WAY different in feel and power. I haven't done back to backs yet with the Radical 1.0, but the Ion really doesn't feel like an improvement there at all, either. Will know more later this week.

If you're going to quote weights, you should do so with the same scale and the same specs (ie Vipec without brakes). Scales vary. As do binding weights, even within the same brand, etc.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I've skied a couple laps on hard/ manky snow with Ions. I own Kingpins. I think the Ion feel is closer to OG tech bindings than it is to Kingpins. I also had an issue with the heel piece catching on my boot in flat touring mode when I over flexed the ski. It only happened under unusual circumstances but was annoying nonetheless. Good product for sure but not convinced they're much of an improvement over the old school versions.

Beast 16's feel more like Kingpins but they are an inferior touring binding. Not only is there no flat mode, snow can build up in the heel lifter making it even less flat.

My exposure to Vipecs has involved multiple touring partners dealing with icing and problems switching modes. Too many gaps and plastic moving parts. If the complaints go away with the Black version I'd give them a try.

My choice would be

Long tour: Plum Guide (haven't tried any ATKs)- simplicity and weight win out. Would try something lighter if I were a bit lighter.

Short tour: Kingpin. They've been flawless for me.

Side country/ resort double duty: Beast 16. Release is smoother than Kingpins. But if I didn't already have them mounted on skis, I'd probably choose Kingpins which feel just as connected, if not more so, and tour much better. I have a hunch the Beasts have a bit more elasticity as well but I don't have any personal evidence to support this.

[mall walker]

Kingpins are 730g right? That's a sidecountry binding imo, but then again 1400g is about the limit on skis for me. People are all different, maybe slapping some number ranges on different "types" of touring makes sense.

Once you start talking about 500g+ lineup, 2x to 4x heavier than the truly light options, 1.5+ lbs per binding... sure, it's gonna ski better. I think it's a bit disingenuous to just say "nothing else skis as good as kingpins" without mentioning "if you don't mind hauling an extra 1.25lbs per foot uphill"

[Meadow Skipper]

Who knows how strong the spring is,...

Shouldn't a comprehensive tester know?

I think it's a bit disingenuous to just say "nothing else skis as good as kingpins" without mentioning "if you don't mind hauling an extra 1.25lbs per foot uphill"

I guess it depends on whether you do all your test skiing in the backcountry or at a resort.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Kingpins are 730g right? That's a sidecountry binding imo, but then again 1400g is about the limit on skis for me. People are all different, maybe slapping some number ranges on different "types" of touring makes sense.

Once you start talking about 500g+ lineup, 2x to 4x heavier than the truly light options, 1.5+ lbs per binding... sure, it's gonna ski better. I think it's a bit disingenuous to just say "nothing else skis as good as kingpins" without mentioning "if you don't mind hauling an extra 1.25lbs per foot uphill"

TLT Superlite 2.0- 196
Plum Guide- 358g
Ion LT- 476g
Ions- 585g
Vipec Black 611g
Kingpin- 730g

Yup. If I'm worried about weight I would't choose any of the new bindings.

[JRainey]

If you go brakeless on the Kingpin it's 650, getting a little better. Going hybrid with Radical toe, probably shaves another 40-50g.

Charging weight weenies rejoice! :-P

Srsly though, gonna try it.

I send it on speed radicals and radi-plums unlocked all the time, so not too worried about retention, just the full power feel of the kingpin heel.

[galibier_numero_un]

Vipec black wieghs 612gr (wildsnow) and is made out of legos so its gonna break.

I don't think that's a fair statement. I've gone on record against equipment that's "stupid light" - gear that's light at the expense of durability in the field.

Having said that, the basic architecture of the Vipec heel (as far as the amount of plastic used) mirrors that of the Diamar frame binding lineup, and we haven't heard about plastic failures in that family of bindings (ain't talkin' about the pivot hinge which seems to be a weak spot on all of the frame bindings). There's a lot of plastic in a Kingpin heel as well.

Do I love the elegance of an Ion or an ATK or Plum? U-bet, but with the necessary size of a Kingpin or Vipec heel, you can't get around using more plastic, unless you want to build an expensive boat anchor.

Cheers,
Thom

[Lindahl]

Shouldn't a comprehensive tester know?


I guess it depends on whether you do all your test skiing in the backcountry or at a resort.

I have no way of knowing if the Ion spring is stronger than the Kingpin spring when it comes to skiing and flexing the ski. There's no easy test for that. The Kingpin could be skiing better because of the real forward pressure or the different heel clampdown mechanism or both. Its hard to say.

I actually spent 5 days in the backcountry with these bindings. Including hauling 3 pairs of skis on my back for several of those days for back to back comparisons. The Kingpin was the clear winner in downhill performance both in and out of the resort. I'll be going into more detail in the real downhill review, which is coming still.