Cheaters

[Pegleg]

I think this screws us up in international politics. Everybody cheats and expects everyone else to do the same, but here we come, big dopey ol' 'Murica, thinking everything is as it seems, and then we get knifed in the back

Right, because the US is a paragon of honesty and transparency when it comes to international politics. We certainly never covertly arm rebel groups, fund insurgencies in violation of treaties we've signed, and so forth. Not saying we're worse than others, but I don't think anyone is going to accuse the US of being naively honest in our international dealings.

[iceman]

Example please?

Ha. perhaps that wasn't the best phrase. But Karzai leaps to mind. Anything we ever did with the Saudis. Noriega. De Gaulle. Pakistan over and over. But more often we just back the wrong guys.

[iceman]

Right, because the US is a paragon of honesty and transparency when it comes to international politics. We certainly never covertly arm rebel groups, fund insurgencies in violation of treaties we've signed, and so forth. Not saying we're worse than others, but I don't think anyone is going to accuse the US of being naively honest in our international dealings.

We are often dishonest. But there is no doubt that we are naive as well. Not always an awesome combo.

But the whole thing was just off the cuff anyways, it's not my foreign policy manifesto or anything like it.

[Phill]

I thought this was going to be about that show that a decade ago all my stoner friends used to the TV tuned to at 1am.

[char_]

I have spent the last three years at a US college. The stats are based on who got caught.

My observation is that the domestic students don't get caught or are able to weasel out of it because they have been in a cat and mouse game their entire academic career with domestic teachers who seriously frown on it. Come from a society where it isn't as important then you will get caught easier because you don't have the skills.

I bet most of those foreigner violations are for plagiarism, not cheating on exams. Sometimes it seems like the language barrier leads to more plagiarism issues.

Just my observation.

The targeting of foreign students for their tuition money by schools is pretty astounding though.

Example: bunch of foreign students got punished for turning in the exact same work on a homework assignment. Casual observation tells you that domestic students do this as well, but are clever enough to change the solution slightly.

[frorider]

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/...cheating-iowa/

[Timberridge]

Uh-oh. You can now go to jail in China.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ch...KCN0YT1CK?il=0

If you're an American and you cheat you get a football scholarship.

[Meadow Skipper]

I can hear Sting singing that now..."Ronery..so ronery...

Roy Orbison: "Ownry the ronery…"

[summit]

I'd bet the real numbers are 5% domestic and 25% of foreign students cheat, not 1% and 5% actually caught.

It is cultural. I remember a Ukranian girl protesting loudly that "this is not forbidden at home!" when caught with crib notes in a microbiology exam. On the other hand she was trying very hard to keep the note hidden.

Chinese and ME students as populations are notorious. There are major industries built up around helping them cheat on everything from secondary school, entrance exams, and in the US with proxy students sent to take their tests in person and paper writing services to write their thesis. These cheating services actively seek out and advertise their cheating services to foreign students in the US, and do so in their native language.

Reuters has done a good job lately covering the SAT cheating industry in Asia.

[summit]

Indian parents climb school walls to pass test answers to their children:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...at-on-an-exam/

[char_]

Hmm, learn new things all the time.

Looks like they have taken the paper writing and exam services that popped up in the late 90's and early 2000's to a whole new level.

[Cono Este]

In every culture there are cheaters. The difference is that it is expected in some, and even part of everyday life/business.

I remember watching the Libyan crisis and a reporter remarked that "lieing was a professional sport in Libya".

[Buster Highmen]

When I taught math or comp sci there were 2 classes of cheaters: football team members and foreign students.

I remember one vividly, an Iranian guy, circa 1980 @ U of Oregon who I saw outside one the day of the final exam. He didn't turn up for the exam and claimed he was sick and wanted a retest. I refused, it went up to administration where I had to make a written statement. Never found out what happened to him.

Another was a member of the UW football team circa 1982 who missed tests, quizzes and was bombing intro calculus. At midterms when I gave him an F, the football dept called and told me to change the grade which I refused. So then he gets put on make up where I have to give him special tutoring, which I was fine with until I caught him with a crib sheet in a make up test. This dude was big, like 6'4" 220 running back or something and black. I was all of 170 lbs and 6 foot scrawny longhair math dweeb and I read him the riot act and told him that he was just a prostitute getting fucked by the Alumni assn and football department, that he wasn't NFL material and was going to end up bitter and poor and I wasn't going to get on the fuck train. The guys eyes bugged out and he left the room.

After that he buckled down, learned how to do simple derivatives and got a C. He shook my hand at the end of the class.

[Benny Profane]

The targeting of foreign students for their tuition money by schools is pretty astounding though.

This is the root of the problem. As though the modern academic industry with it's bloated and overpaid administrations is a paragon of virtue.

[BmillsSkier]

This is just an observation, I'm not judging, but cheating isn't really a big deal in Asia the way it is in the West and especially the US. It's just a cultural difference.

That explains the Chinese view on patents, trademarks, and IP law as a whole.

"You saying I flat out stole your design and sold it as my own?" Fuck rou Amelican!"

[Harry]

That explains the Chinese view on patents, trademarks, and IP law as a whole.

"You saying I flat out stole your design and sold it as my own?" Fuck rou Amelican!"

Yeti Cooler thread, JONG !

[LightRanger]

Another was a member of the UW football team circa 1982 who missed tests, quizzes and was bombing intro calculus. At midterms when I gave him an F, the football dept called and told me to change the grade which I refused. So then he gets put on make up where I have to give him special tutoring, which I was fine with until I caught him with a crib sheet in a make up test. This dude was big, like 6'4" 220 running back or something and black. I was all of 170 lbs and 6 foot scrawny longhair math dweeb and I read him the riot act and told him that he was just a prostitute getting fucked by the Alumni assn and football department, that he wasn't NFL material and was going to end up bitter and poor and I wasn't going to get on the fuck train. The guys eyes bugged out and he left the room.

After that he buckled down, learned how to do simple derivatives and got a C. He shook my hand at the end of the class.

That's a great story. I'm guessing no, but any idea if he graduated? (ETA: "No" you don't know, and "no" he didn't--to clarify my stance on the likely answers to my initially unclear two-part question.)