Killed while filming. How do we backtrack from where we are?

[hatchgreenchile]

Agree with neck. No amount of mitigation can make that kind of terrain absolutely safe. High risk comes with the territory.

What's the body count now at Spa, Indianapolis and Nurburgring? Hasn't stopped drivers from wanting to go fast. No different with skiing

[TahoeJ]

When was the last time a ski / board film showed someone backing off a line ?

Actually, this happens all the time over the last several years.

Agreed that digging pits is overrated for the type of terrain we're talking about. It's more about assessing similar faces in recent storm cycles and having a guide who is dialed into the snow-pack. And even then there's always going to be huge risk on a 40-55 degree slope. It is what it is.

[iscariot]

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-Max-Arsenault

I was under the impression that Max died yesterday and this was another incident. RIP Max.

[neck beard]

In the last few years I have met a couple of guides (IFMGA) both from Europe and North America who are friends with some serious extreme ski/snowboard pros but will no longer work on their films.

Anyway, if you ski steep unsupported unanchored alpine terrain with almost any type of nice snow on it, you are going to trigger avalanches. It is that simple. Some might be small avalanches, some will be big, some will be slabs, you will ski out of some, you will get caught up in others, some may go into terrain traps. You might die in one of them. Some people have died in them, some have not yet died but will sooner or later, and some may be lucky their whole career. There is no avoiding that. Don't just focus on the deaths, look at the near misses, count them as deaths and you will see that luck is the only thing keeping numbers low. If you want to take it one step closer to being very cautious, you could view every line skied in that kind of terrain as a near miss, whether an avalanche was triggered or not.

All these clips are worth watching. I like the one down at the bottom of the page on "when to give 'er".
http://www.sportgevity.com/videos

[SkiBall]

My fave ski clip is that JP one where he is skiing down the street. Name escapes me at the moment. But then alas...

[Soups]

My fave ski clip is that JP one where he is skiing down the street. Name escapes me at the moment. But then alas...

All.i.can I believe

[TahoeJ]

^^ All. I. Can. - They had some other segments that were pretty great. And they actually showed Kye Petersen getting picked up by the heli mid-line because it was sketchy. And then a crazy pillow line where he gets crushed by a rolling giant snow boulder and somehow lives. So yeah, umm... risky business.

[SkiBall]

Yep. I would rather be able to ski like that that a big line given the choice.

[east or bust]

I don't think this has been mentioned, but I think there is a serious lack of experience with a lot of the younger up and coming crowd. There is an incredible amount of talent that is getting easier and easier to discovery through social media and the interwebz. I could be completely off base with this but I think a lot of them are getting thrown into situations where quite frankly they have no clue whether to pull plug. Sure, your producer digs a pit and tells you it's good to go, how many times does a kid back out of the line...

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

This isn't some new thing. An extremely high level of risk has gone hand in hand with being a pro or high level competitor for at least a decade, if not longer.

[detrusor]

I like the ski area stuff just as much ala "big Tuesday" kind of segments. I can relate, I look and say shit yeah I've skied there!

[TEXASS]

I feel for anyone who dies at. Work. Doesn't matter if you are a pro skier bagging a big line or a tow truck driver struck and killed on the road
Either way it gotta suck.
I do enjoy watching people ski or ride big sketchy lines and through that I ride things I would have never dreamed of riding
But. In my everyday work I face danger on occasion. I'm an electrician and sometimes tasked with opening and closing high voltage big amperage breakers. (12000 volts 5000 amp )
I have to wear a bomb suit like that dude in the Movie the Hurt Locker
I always wonder what the hell it would feel like if something goes wrong and the breaker fails
I doubt it's much different for these people
Your at work. You gotta get the job done. You have done it before. You have the right equipment. You have support

Then Bam

The shot hits the fan.

[skiNEwhere]

To answer the question posed from the title of this thread, I really don't think there is any backtracking. There's way too much competition between MSP, Warren Miller, and yes, TGR to scale down the steep and dangerous lines that are a staple of ski movies.

[Mofro261]

Neckbeard nailed it with both those posts.

[powdork]

I feel for anyone who dies at. Work. Doesn't matter if you are a pro skier bagging a big line or a tow truck driver struck and killed on the road
Either way it gotta suck.

It's not quite the same though. How often do you don the suit when you're not getting paid? I'm guessing most days they wake up totally stoked to go to work.

[BFD]

agree with Neckbeard. Haines Pass snow pack sucked this year.

[powdork]

I'm guessing most days they wake up totally stoked to go to work.

As evidenced at 2:10 in this movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0OOt3wrFps
People will say he died doing what he loved. The important thing to remember is that he lived doing what he loved. That's the best any of us can hope for.

[powdork]

The best parts of Warren Miller films still make me hoot and hollar.
So it doesn't take a great risks to entertain the public.
A good storyline, well told, sells more than any stunt riding ever will.

Current Warren Miller films get after it as much as the next, or close. Billy Poole was filming for Warren miller when he passed.

[muted]

There is back-tracking going on right now. Not everyone will mellow out, but there is small movement in snowboarding and skiing to not push it so much. This article explains some of it:

http://www.powder.com/the-end-game/

[Bunion 2020]

^ good read.

[smitchell333]

No backtracking. Like said above guys and gals will keep doing this stuff and occasionally dying.

In part its just the risk of being in the game of skiing in this sort of terrain. Look at the stuff that these people who have died have been skiing, when they died, but also in previous adventures.

Its exciting to see (and hence why the films are successful) but I can't help but think when I see some of these movies or even TRs on here - "that guy/girl is cruisin' for a bruisin' and either they'll change their ways or its just a matter of time."

Maybe its just the nature of the game but the only thing I wonder about is the younger end of the Pros - they can't really have the knowledge or experience to temper the risks. They are stellar athletes but I think that their skiing skills and their accolades outpace their abilities to mitigate the risk. Maybe its just the price to be paid to play at that level and in that terrain, but maybe rather than really having talent for decision making as well as the physical skills for skiing that type of stuff, they just go and charge it.

They win events, get articles published, filmed in movies, join the ranks of the "elite," hit big objectives, etc. but at the age of 20, 21, 29, or 31 can you really have enough experience to make fully informed decisions about traveling in this terrain and skiing this sort of stuff?

Its not my place to decide whether they should take these chances, but I just think the whole industry has a tendency to puff up egos and false senses of expertise.

[neck beard]

There will be no backtrack whilst consumers give the producers a profit.

That won't change until consumers get over the need to be entertained by so-called 'stars'. It is almost a bizarre fetish; the idolatry of 'heroes' and 'celebrities' and the desperate dependency on being entertained by them, in their living or in their death (see Prince and the social media account being used by the coroner to release autopsy results). That dependency won't change until there are less people in the suburbs with mortgages and credit card debt and 50 hour work weeks and retirement at 65 and only 10 days skiing each season... and an iphone. That will never change, unless price changes.

I think bankers should pay back past bonuses when they lose money. Similarly, I think film producers should use profits to insure athletes, seeing that they profit from the skills of people who are unable to insure their own incomes against the risky activities they provide to film producers. Currently, ski film producers privatize the gains and socialize the losses, just like bankers.

When risks and externalities are priced into products correctly, then you will see changes in how those products are produced and consumed. Currently the risks inherent with being a ski film athlete are not being priced into the production costs of those ski films. Not unlike carbon currently not being priced into consumer goods.

Whenever there is a disequilibrium in pricing, someone disproportionately gains whilst someone disproportionately loses. In banking, the losers are all non-bankers when banks fail. In the carbon producing industry, the losers are the environment and future generations. In the ski film industry, the losers are the dead and injured athletes and their families, plus fans and the sport in general. In each instance, the winners are obvious.

We live in a mostly-freemarket capitalist world, and only...

1) Regulation,
or
2) "Social Responsibility Marketing" strategy based on action not words,
or
3) Personal ethics.

...can potentially lead a producer to correctly account for the full cost of production and pass that cost onto the masses of consumers who need the entertainment.

[powdork]

The other side of the coin is that the athletes want to do this stuff. It's incredibly thrilling, and what they've been working hard for most of their lives. Sure there may be cases where they have a little voice in the back of their heads saying what the fuck but at the same time they feel they #gottagettheshot. Those times are few and far between and going into the high consequence lines with doubt in your head is about the worst thing you can do. Hopefully the production companies are clear that if they have any doubt, back the fuck out. But even if that mantra is clear, everyone knows that if at the end of the year you haven't produced you're not coming back next year.
One thing I feel is true is that if the athletes weren't making movies, the only thing that would be keeping them from skiing these lines is the lack of access and support to get to them. The money isn't the important factor.

[skifishbum]

i pass no judgement on others level of risk tolerances, and offer only vibes for losses for fellow addicts

[El Kanone]

I have done over 2000 Heli runs in Alaska and never filmed a single one. The point being people are doing this stuff either way. However there is a limit to the whole progression thing. For me, in the end it all comes down to each persons personal level of risk. Or as I like to say, how bad do you want it. That is why I stopped guiding heli skiing, I didn't like making that decision for other people. Each person needs to decide for themselves.