Killed while filming. How do we backtrack from where we are?

[Kinnikinnick]

That is not something they owe us/the public/ anyone, imo.

Why not? The people involved only owe us the stoke-footage promoting avalanche terrain skiing that comes when bullets are dodged but not honest accounting when things turn out bad? So basically we just get a fantasy version of how cool and rad the sport is but none of the reality of the dangers? And we can't even learn any lessons that might be on hand for those who ski avalanche terrain. What if this tragedy was the result of line selection with a bad terrain trap at the bottom making timely rescue not feasible?

What other factor would there be?

I'm not sure since I'm not in that realm but some ideas that come to mind:
- Maybe its just that the actual cost of this level of terrain and snow conditions comes due eventually and comes due randomly and in clusters.
- Not female specific but I feel like one thing I notice is the young pro hubris arc. A subset oung pros get into the sport, win some comps, get some accolades, sponsorships, paid heli-adventures, etc. While they are unquestionably good skiers/boarders, do they have the mountaineering knowledge to understand the risks and decisions they make or are they just cruising on their skiing skills rather than avalanche knowledge and skill at avoiding avy danger and then boom something like this happens.
- I wonder what the interactions at the Heli Guide/Pro level are? Do the guides effectively defer to the pro's in terms of whether slopes should be skied?

[klar]

Why not? The people involved only owe us the stoke-footage promoting avalanche terrain skiing that comes when bullets are dodged but not honest accounting when things turn out bad? So basically we just get a fantasy version of how cool and rad the sport is but none of the reality of the dangers? And we can't even learn any lessons that might be on hand for those who ski avalanche terrain. What if this tragedy was the result of line selection with a bad terrain trap at the bottom making timely rescue not feasible?

I don't think they 'owe' us stoke footage either. A lot of pro skiers have spoken about the risks involved in the sport (one good example is just a few pages back in this thread) and yes, of course it is important that these risks are communicated instead of just showing the fantasy version.

What I'm trying to say is I don't think people involved in an accident are obligated to share their experience, whether or not they are professional skiers. While some may be up to the public scrutiny and criticism this inevitably seems to bring, others may not and I think this is a personal matter for them to decide. It would help if public discussion of incidents did not turn into ugly competitions of armchair quaterbacking as much as they do.

Regarding the other point, I was referring to the female specific question (maybe I misunderstood your original comment on that). I totally agree that there are a lot of varied reasons why accidents happen.

[TahoeJ]

What I'm trying to say is I don't think people involved in an accident are obligated to share their experience, whether or not they are professional skiers.

I do, but only in the immediate sense if it could prevent harm to others. Like reporting your incident to the local avalanche center. Not doing so to save ego is about as lame as it gets IMO. We've had a few incidents like that in Tahoe in recent years, I won't mention names.

[Z]

Man this one hurts. Matilda was so kind and humble, and a smart skier too. Crushing. As always words here are meaningless.

I wonder what the interactions at the Heli Guide/Pro level are? Do the guides effectively defer to the pro's in terms of whether slopes should be skied?

Exactly the opposite. The guide's job is to say no. Repeatedly, if necessary.

[BFD]

I do not see an obligation ro share any experiences. I am curious on where the Maxiim Arsenault avalanche happened. Reports were anywhere from Fairweather to Pleasant camp to Haines Pass.

[Shredhead]

Commercial operations absolutely have an obligation to report.
I had friends heli skiing in the same area last year. They were green lit to ski a run, seconds before the whole ridge slid to the ground.

[BFD]

Commercial operations absolutely have an obligation to report.
I had friends heli skiing in the same area last year. They were green lit to ski a run, seconds before the whole ridge slid to the ground.

are you referring to the Haines Pass area

[klar]

I do, but only in the immediate sense if it could prevent harm to others. Like reporting your incident to the local avalanche center. Not doing so to save ego is about as lame as it gets IMO. We've had a few incidents like that in Tahoe in recent years, I won't mention names.

reporting incidents to avalanche centers - sure, always a good idea. heli ops should be made to report to someone - fair enough (in south america: who though?)

personally sharing what happened with "the internet" or whoever else when avalanche centers and official accident reports are not available (e.g. in south america): if there is immediate relevance to other people, it should be shared with those people. Otherwise: imo whatever the affected person feels is right for them.

An interesting variation of this discussion is the situation in Italy: triggering avalanches is per se "illegal" and there can be actual legal consequences (pretty high fines, technically jail time), whether or not something happened is not relevant. At the very least, this makes people think twice about calling things in to the local avalanche centers.

[Shredhead]

are you referring to the Haines Pass area

No, outside of Ferrellones.

[BFD]

No, outside of Ferrellones.

thank's was wondering, I spent last winter skiing Haines Pass. Saw the face of Nadahini get remotely released from the bottom ,couple was very lucky. Same day earlier friends remotely released something heading up Guardsman. Returned in February and the snowpack had deteriorated further. I left but I imagine someone was still hyping that shit.

[abraham]

An interesting variation of this discussion is the situation in Italy: triggering avalanches is per se "illegal" and there can be actual legal consequences (pretty high fines, technically jail time), whether or not something happened is not relevant. At the very least, this makes people think twice about calling things in to the local avalanche centers.

Whoa. I'm sure the history of that is interesting, do you know where I can read more about it?

Sad to hear about another death while skiing. And her picture looks surprisingly familiar, I think I may have shared a gondola with her in Engleberg last winter.

[smitchell333]

Commercial operations absolutely have an obligation to report.
I had friends heli skiing in the same area last year. They were green lit to ski a run, seconds before the whole ridge slid to the ground.

This is interesting. Maybe bad guides at that operation. Especially if this was the same operation that Rapaport was flying with.

[klar]

Whoa. I'm sure the history of that is interesting, do you know where I can read more about it?

There doesn't seem to be much in english in general and I couldn't find anything on the history at all. Here is a short account of an older case that was and still is the most publicized example of how it can work. . The law is from 1986 and says that causing "floods, mudslides, and avalanches" is a crime. It was obviously made before ski touring was as big of a thing as it is now and is frequently criticized for being very outdated in this regard.

I find it hard to understand what exactly the legal situation is because they use vague and very abstract terms. Calling in harmless slides you caused is probably not as much of an issue as people think but it's all so weird that no one understands the situation so it seems better not to call. The Alpine Club and Mountainguide Associations have strongly criticized this. There is a distinction between "anthroposized" areas (they made up this word specifically for the law imo) and areas "far away from people and infrastructure", but that is not well defined. There is also a distinction between setting off a slide on purpose (5-12 years in jail, maybe don't cut that cornice...) and doing it by accident (1-5 years in jail for negligence). How/what/when any of this is enforced varies strongly between regions, which doesn't make things any more clear.

[GotamaRider]

This is interesting. Maybe bad guides at that operation. Especially if this was the same operation that Rapaport was flying with.

The slide that buried her was in Santa Teresa which is lower than the ski resorts (El Colorado & Valle Nevado). They normally do not heli ski there. This is lift accessed terrain and you need a car to pick you up at the road to bring you back to the resort.

[Kinnikinnick]

The slide that buried her was in Santa Teresa which is lower than the ski resorts (El Colorado & Valle Nevado). They normally do not heli ski there. This is lift accessed terrain and you need a car to pick you up at the road to bring you back to the resort.

Interesting - they were helicopter skiing the terrain below El Colorado? I thought that that area was closed. And why would she be using a Heli there when its lift accessible?

[kailas]

Your so right.