ON3P SKIS Discussion

[ApexSkua]

Tuning question:
Got hooked up by Brundo last year with some Kartel 108's that have never been ground and have dull edges. Wondering the best way to do the bases/ angle the edges. I have about zero tuning knowledge besides detuning, so I'd just bring them to the shop and tell them what I want.
They're my E Coast soft snow ski and I just want them to bite when there's hard snow/ ice underneath; and maybe be able to take them out on hard snow just to know how they do.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Cheers[emoji482] !

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https://www.beasttuning.com/how-to-tune-ski-edges

Tuning yourself is very easy w/ the right tools. However if you're only doing it once a year, probably cheaper just to have the shop do it. Typically edges for most people are 1/1 but if you're a hard and fast carver you might think about going to 1.5 or 2 on your side edges.

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://www.beasttuning.com/how-to-tune-ski-edges

Tuning yourself is very easy w/ the right tools. However if you're only doing it once a year, probably cheaper just to have the shop do it. Typically edges for most people are 1/1 but if you're a hard and fast carver you might think about going to 1.5 or 2 on your side edges.

These videos are by far the best I’ve seen if you want to go into detail. You can always simplify it from there:

[ASmileyFace]

These videos are by far the best I’ve seen if you want to go into detail. You can always simplify it from there:

This video series is legit. Worth the watch for anyone who is looking to do their own tunes.

[phatty]

This argument is stupid. No one should have to feel like they NEED to check the tune/base on a new pair of skis. If you want to, then more power to you. You want to buy the tuning gear and do it all yourself, awesome. You are in the 1% of skiers. The assumption should be that skis are tuned properly with correct bases out of the wrapper. Any other assumption is letting the manufacturer get away with malpractice.

In most cases I've heard that were brought to ON3P, they have offered to fix it or make it right. That's the way it should be handled.

[jakezee]

I'll slightly rephrase my question here:

Can anyone recommend what to tell the shop on how to tune some 2018 Kartel 108's to get them to perform like they're designed to - in E coast soft snow; so they can also bite?
1deg base, 2 deg edges?
Cheers [emoji482]

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[Going Coastal]

EVO's bevel database shows all ON3P skis are recommended at 1/1 for base/side.

People more knowledgeable on that ski will probably offer better advice, but I experimented with side bevel on my BG110s and found 1 deg to perform best for me.

I didn't experiment with base bevel because I only have a 1 deg guide.

[adrenalated]

I'll slightly rephrase my question here:

Can anyone recommend what to tell the shop on how to tune some 2018 Kartel 108's to get them to perform like they're designed to - in E coast soft snow; so they can also bite?
1deg base, 2 deg edges?
Cheers [emoji482]

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1 degree base, 1 degree edge

That's the stock bevel, that's what they're designed around, so you if you want them to perform "like they're designed to" then go with that.

[tuco]

This argument is stupid. No one should have to feel like they NEED to check the tune/base on a new pair of skis. If you want to, then more power to you. You want to buy the tuning gear and do it all yourself, awesome. You are in the 1% of skiers. The assumption should be that skis are tuned properly with correct bases out of the wrapper. Any other assumption is letting the manufacturer get away with malpractice.

In most cases I've heard that were brought to ON3P, they have offered to fix it or make it right. That's the way it should be handled.

Nobody is "arguing" anything. Of course we all want perfect out of the wrapper dude! But that's just not the reality here, for any manufacturer. I believe all the folks w/ unaffected 3P's are getting one of the best factory tunes out there. Even come hotboxxed for fuks sake.
And the reality of the rebevel, if you have the equip and skills, is it will take slightly longer than bitching about it on the trgz. Email is the way to make them aware, as Garmitch stated

[justo8484]

I'll slightly rephrase my question here:

Can anyone recommend what to tell the shop on how to tune some 2018 Kartel 108's to get them to perform like they're designed to - in E coast soft snow; so they can also bite?
1deg base, 2 deg edges?
Cheers [emoji482]

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I have Jeffrey 108s and ski on the east coast. Tune at 1 and 1, detune back to the rocker inflect point at least, slightly farther if you want them to ski a little bit looser, but unless it's bulletproof refreeze garbage ice, 1 and 1 holds an edge well enough. As many others here have alluded to, it's not a ski you're going to drive with a ton of forward pressure and really push the tips, you've gotta take a more neutral, balanced stance to really get your weight into the edge of the ski.

[jakezee]

Muchos gracias primos!

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[CaliBrit]

Probably buried in here but searched via the googles

Anyone got time on woodsman or BG tour 110’s with opinions to share?

Would normally drift toward the 187 but the 182 woodsman 110 that is available is looking interesting.

[Huskier]

I would go Woodsman. The heft and damp, thick core of the BG is like 50% of the magic, particularly if you find yourself in a variably dense coastal/maritime snowpack. I find the tour layup doesn't respond well to skiing the way that that the BG shape and radius encourage. Woodsman on the other hand has great manners, a smaller radius and (I feel) makes a better tour platform.

[CaliBrit]

I would go Woodsman. The heft and damp, thick core of the BG is like 50% of the magic, particularly if you find yourself in a variably dense coastal/maritime snowpack. I find the tour layup doesn't respond well to skiing the way that that the BG shape and radius encourage. Woodsman on the other hand has great manners, a smaller radius and (I feel) makes a better tour platform.

Thanks for that.

[grinch]

Probably buried in here but searched via the googles

Anyone got time on woodsman or BG tour 110’s with opinions to share?

Would normally drift toward the 187 but the 182 woodsman 110 that is available is looking interesting.

Im liking mine. 3d snow they have that bg magic autopilot. Have a few days on icy groomers and the light weight does make you stay focused a little more than youd have to with a stock bg but the bg shape seems to make them easier to keep control of. Just what i want for a touring ski. Tolerable inbounds but i would most likely grab something else for a 50/50 ski/slackcountry. 50/50 build with cast or duke pt would probably be quite versatile in that app. I have atk raiders on my 177 bg tour 110. Sooo light and they rip touring

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[EWG]

Ok, carl has Woods 102s in 192 length I'm thinking of buying. I thought I wanted 187s. When I look at on3p's size chart I'm right in the middle (at 6' the suggested range is 184-193, at 5'-10" it's 179-189. I'm a little over 5'11".) I have 186cm Jeff 108s and they are good. I wouldn't want them shorter, and could maybe have them longer and be just as happy, but I'm a bit concerned about 192 Woods as I ski a lot of steep tight trees.

Thoughts?

[CaliBrit]

Ok, carl has Woods 102s in 192 length I'm thinking of buying. I thought I wanted 187s. When I look at on3p's size chart I'm right in the middle (at 6' the suggested range is 184-193, at 5'-10" it's 179-189. I'm a little over 5'11".) I have 186cm Jeff 108s and they are good. I wouldn't want them shorter, and could maybe have them longer and be just as happy, but I'm a bit concerned about 192 Woods as I ski a lot of steep tight trees.

Thoughts?

I mean…how big’s your dong?

[carlh]

What are you on now? I don’t think these ski long but my references are obviously big skis as well. I bought these since my 191 goliaths want more space to run than is available at Snoqualmie and they certainly slide around a lot easier.
If you’re at alpental some time I could meet for a test run. I’m debating between keeping them in hopes to ski slower and possibly upping the side bevel to 2* vs buying wren 102ti 189s or m102 191s or r99 comps that should both be a bit stronger especially in firm snow.

Ok, carl has Woods 102s in 192 length I'm thinking of buying. I thought I wanted 187s. When I look at on3p's size chart I'm right in the middle (at 6' the suggested range is 184-193, at 5'-10" it's 179-189. I'm a little over 5'11".) I have 186cm Jeff 108s and they are good. I wouldn't want them shorter, and could maybe have them longer and be just as happy, but I'm a bit concerned about 192 Woods as I ski a lot of steep tight trees.

Thoughts?

[Ed el Loco]

I have Jeffrey 108s and ski on the east coast. Tune at 1 and 1, detune back to the rocker inflect point at least, slightly farther if you want them to ski a little bit looser, but unless it's bulletproof refreeze garbage ice, 1 and 1 holds an edge well enough. As many others here have alluded to, it's not a ski you're going to drive with a ton of forward pressure and really push the tips, you've gotta take a more neutral, balanced stance to really get your weight into the edge of the ski.

I went over my Jeff 110’s and the base is flat. Edges detuned, everything looks good. Skied them today with this advice in mind. They ski great. I have 114 Jeff’s mounted-1.5 due to hole conflict that responded better to driving the tips. These are mounted on the dimple, and feel more stable with a center stance. There’s a bit of tail on there if it’s on the mark.

The point of this blog is it’s me not ON3P. They are still my favorite brand of ski and I will keep buying them until I die.

[PNW-skier78]

Probably buried in here but searched via the googles

Anyone got time on woodsman or BG tour 110’s with opinions to share?

Would normally drift toward the 187 but the 182 woodsman 110 that is available is looking interesting.

I have a BG 110 tour in 187. Great 3d snow ski. I skied it once on a groomer and wasn’t that crazy about it but fine in soft snow suck as corn even if it isn’t truly 3d snow. Let me k ow if you have a specific question.


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[kid-kapow]

Say hello to my new daily drivers -> Woodsman 110 182 mounted at +1 with Castified P15s Harlauts (brake holders to be mounted, I just wanted to give them a few days first).

They rip. I like them a lot two days in, having skied everything from untracked to variable to seriously icy shit snow aka refrozen groomers (refrozen as in both sunaffected and temperature affected) on them. They work super well for how I like to ski.

I am happy enough with them that I already sold off my other resort pair in this width - 192 Dynastar M-Free 108, a ski I freaking love. I originally mounted them on the line, but went forward a cm wanting more supportive tails and after hearing that Auv loved his at +1.5,

Yes, this is the same pair that I received last summer (2021) that I initially liked before not quite figuring out how to ski them on hard snow after some tune issues emerged on harder snow. They have since been retuned to get rid of them being slightly railed causing the tune to be off. A lot of the issues back then was also caused by delta issues, so even if extremely frustrating at the time I still ended up in a very good spot. I know a lot more about what I like and why I like it now.

I know that the tune debate has been raging as of late - with me being no small part in that, but I think that the main issue causing that was sorted out last autumn. None of my tunes woes are baed on skis bought this year/season. I would not hesitate to buy another pair, even if the order these were a part of were not perfect out of the wrapper - or they were, outside of tune.



I am also so happy with these and the 16/17 BGs that I recently bought, that I also decided to sell two pairs in my princess quiver - 172 MF-108 and 176.6 Anima Birdie. The plan is to replace them with a pair of BG118s and WD110s from the custom sale this summer.

Now the big question is, should I go +1 re Peglegg or +2 re Rex Shepard on the aforementioned BG110s post retune? Rex has been skiing his RES skis at +2 for years and seems very happy with them there.

[PeachesNCream]

I am happy enough with them that I already sold off my other resort pair in this width - 192 Dynastar M-Free 108, a ski I freaking love. I originally mounted them on the line, but went forward a cm wanting more supportive tails and after hearing that Auv loved his at +1.5,

What'd you like about these over the mfree?

I had the jeffery108 for the last few seasons and switched to the mfree108 for this season. The mfree is a great ski, but I'm not having as much fun as I did with the jeffery. Thinking about going back to the jeffery but also wondering about the woodsman. Maybe woodsman110 + Jeff118 would be a fun combo. I think the main part that is making the jeffery more fun is energy and playfulness off of little kickers and drops (no spins and flips for me but always searching for something to boost). I'm sure both play a role but I wonder how much was the on3p layup and how much was the more playful shape. Maybe the woodsman is going to be a little bit of both and the best fit

[tharmor]

Say hello to my new daily drivers -> Woodsman 110 182 mounted at +1 with Castified P15s Harlauts (brake holders to be mounted, I just wanted to give them a few days first).

They rip. I like them a lot two days in, having skied everything from untracked to variable to seriously icy shit snow aka refrozen groomers (refrozen as in both sunaffected and temperature affected) on them. They work super well for how I like to ski.

I am happy enough with them that I already sold off my other resort pair in this width - 192 Dynastar M-Free 108, a ski I freaking love. I originally mounted them on the line, but went forward a cm wanting more supportive tails and after hearing that Auv loved his at +1.5,

Yes, this is the same pair that I received last summer (2021) that I initially liked before not quite figuring out how to ski them on hard snow after some tune issues emerged on harder snow. They have since been retuned to get rid of them being slightly railed causing the tune to be off. A lot of the issues back then was also caused by delta issues, so even if extremely frustrating at the time I still ended up in a very good spot. I know a lot more about what I like and why I like it now.

I know that the tune debate has been raging as of late - with me being no small part in that, but I think that the main issue causing that was sorted out last autumn. None of my tunes woes are baed on skis bought this year/season. I would not hesitate to buy another pair, even if the order these were a part of were not perfect out of the wrapper - or they were, outside of tune.



I am also so happy with these and the 16/17 BGs that I recently bought, that I also decided to sell two pairs in my princess quiver - 172 MF-108 and 176.6 Anima Birdie. The plan is to replace them with a pair of BG118s and WD110s from the custom sale this summer.

Now the big question is, should I go +1 re Peglegg or +2 re Rex Shepard on the aforementioned BG110s post retune? Rex has been skiing his RES skis at +2 for years and seems very happy with them there.

Those look quite purdy! The Harlauts work so well on those top sheets.


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[kid-kapow]

The comparable MF108 to the depicted pair of WD110s is the 182.

To elaborate a bit: the first pair of 182 MF108s I had were mounted on the line, were a hoot in soft snow, but where I kinda felt that the tips could be overpowered a bit (you couldn't really, it just felt that way). I tried my second pair at +1.5 (based on mounting MF118 189 and MF108 192s at +1.5 with great success) and then remounted to +1. They felt the best at +1 (MF99s feels best at +1 too imho), but still kinda lethargic on groomers and not stiff enough in the shovels to smash into stuff (WD shovels are not significantly stiffer, but there is more surface area).

I kinda feel like WD110s is a better compromise. They are loose, but not as loose as MF108s. They are happy doing big arcs on hard snow, yet loose enough to not be a handful on tight terrain. They float great like all ON3Ps. You can ski them from an upright stance or get more forward. And they are ON3Ps, which admittedly is a factor with me being a huge ON3P fanboii - they just make me more excited to ski them, the build oozes quality (even if the tune was off at first) and the graphics are perfection. I remember loving Jeff108s as well, but I think WD110 is a better ski for me.

I actually preferred DPS Koala103s to both MF99 18"5"s mounted at +1 and mf108 182s mounted at +1 too (and do not like DPS at all (even if they do make some skis that are very good -> K103s and K119s, Lotus 117 Pagoda was meh)).

the 192 MF108 is a lot more ski than either WD110 or MF108 182S, and just too much ski for this part of the season for where I ski, my height/weight/skill level. They are a shit ton of fun in the second half of the season when I get back up to speed and the terrain enables ding huge arcs at mach schnell. I found WD110s to wash out a bit in these settings, which is the main reason I went +1. So it remains to be seen how this experiment turns out.

A big part of the decision is also down to quiver consolidation - I want to have fewer skis. I also have a pair of WD110 182 50/50 that I plan to try with some light tech bindings, so keeping WD110s just made the most sense to me based on how I want to ski and how I want my quiver to evolve.

[goolick]

Is there any discernible difference between a kartel 108 from a few years ago vs. the current 110?

[kid-kapow]

Is there any discernible difference between a kartel 108 from a few years ago vs. the current 110?

it depends on how sensitive you are.

There are some minor tweaks to the layup (the new layup is slightly lighter) and the sidecut (new kartels and jeffs do no have elliptical sidecut in the rear any longer), but all kartel/jeffs108s and jeffs110s are mighty fine skis. These are tweaks that changes the skis incrementally, but most skiers will probably not notice them to a large degree.

So if you can get some k108s for a good price then you will be getting a killer ski, as you also will be if you get som j110s.