ON3P SKIS Discussion

[kid-kapow]

When a ski is "railed", it's edge high, not base high.

I know.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if it is edge high or base high - I would use the same method to fix either. Re-setting the entire "system" is only marginally more effort / expensive than just fixing the edges - so why not just make sure that the bases are flat as well before fixing the edge bevel that is dependent on said bases being correct?

That is what I am thinking these days after trying to just fix the edges of a fair few skis without it being homeruns, but where base grinds and resetting did the trick.

[optics]

^^yeah but it does matter because your post above is telling people that if their skis feel "squirrely" they are probably railed. You're pushing out bad info to the masses.

Honestly - in the world of "do the right thing", any ski manufacturer who sees customers on here saying "my skis were edge high out of the plastic and I had a terrible first day on them as a result" (or base high - either way) should be PM'ing that person and offering to cover costs of a base grind and edge reset. Especially if "truly flat bases" is part of the marketing spiel.

[detrusor]

I’m blown away that people don’t check the tune before skiing. As for setting the bevel just go down the edge with a sharpie and when the sharpie is gone the bevel is done. It’s not fucking brain dentistry


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[tuco]

Yep
I'm guilty of the 1st part too though

[uglymoney]

I have become a podcast junkie sorry not sorry. On Gear30 Jonathan was talking to Jeremy Jones about how no manufacturer he has talked to has ever admitted to making a ski with camber a bit out because of core thickness varation or something else.

He got JJ to admit it is hypothetically possible.

I know Scott Andrus has said that hasn't been an issue with his skis.

I don't know enough to make a judgment beyond not being able to get a particular pair of skis to work for me.

But Jonathan's comment gave me pause.

[kid-kapow]

^^yeah but it does matter because your post above is telling people that if their skis feel "squirrely" they are probably railed. You're pushing out bad info to the masses.

No, I meant to say that this case of BG110 might be that a combination of the two, not a generalized observation that all railed skis will feel that way (they won't).

It seemed to fit the bill for a ski that works ok in soft snow but then becomes fucking unridable on hard snow - not as in loose, but hooky, then stays in carves, wanders and does all kinds of weird shit. My diagnosis might be off, but it seemed to fit the bill correct.

If my understanding of what factors characterizes such a combination symptoms is way off, then I thank you for the correction. Seeing that what I am describing is not me trying to elaborate on another mags skis - but described what mine did - I am hopefully not 100% incorrect in the diagnosis.

[sf]

Honestly - in the world of "do the right thing", any ski manufacturer who sees customers on here saying "my skis were edge high out of the plastic and I had a terrible first day on them as a result" (or base high - either way) should be PM'ing that person and offering to cover costs of a base grind and edge reset. Especially if "truly flat bases" is part of the marketing spiel.

This.
And the people claiming that everyone should check their tune (and fix it) when buying new skis are out of touch with reality.
Most people own one or two pairs of skis and expect them to ski well, they have no idea about bases or edges, they just assume that the ski is crap and never buy that brand again.

[Going Coastal]

If I pay top dollar for a product it should work as designed when it reaches my doorstep. I understand mistakes happen, but you really shouldn't have to go to the reaches of the internet to find out its a known issue you may or may not be able to fix yourself.

I'm not in the customer service industry, but I have to think a simple email would have gone a long way. "you purchased xyz last year and we had an issue with xyz not performing as expected, we identified a problem at the point of production and if you feel your impacted do this to fix it... if that doesnt work or you dont feel you have the skills to DIY please let us know"

Back in 2017 4FRNT didnt meet shipping timelines on some euro produced skis. They were upfront in communicating the delay and sent a hat when they finally shipped. It wasn't much, but at least they communicated and did something without even being asked. Honestly I was fine with just the communication, but i still wear the hat on occasion.

Point being, up front communication is appreciated. A customer shouldn't have to rely on an online community to address and resolve a known issue.

[grinch]

Im surprised they havent chimed in here to clear up any worries

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[TeleBeaver]

I’m blown away that people don’t check the tune before skiing.

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Are you really?? most people have no tools and no way to check the tune before skiing. Even more DIY oriented folks who do their own wax and touch up their edges might not own a true bar. Most folks also have no idea about edge angles or base flatness and expect their skis to just work out of the wrapper (which they should).

Although the tune issues seem to be limited to a specific timeframe, it is possible that skis that were finished during that timeframe were sold much later. I was at the Voile shop recently and they have skis on the rack marked with pressing dates of from 2019... Even if someone bought some previous year skis at Evo, they might just be getting them on snow now, two seasons later.

FWIW I haven't been affected by the tune issues, and had a stellar morning skiing my Cease and Desists in 14 inches of upside down funk.

[RudyGarmisch]

For anyone having suspected tune issues - what’s been the response when you have emailed customer service, info@on3pskis.com?

I would just think that this is the most straightforward path to a resolution.

[Skeeze]

I had no base bevel on my 2020 C&Ds. Emailed ON3P in early 2021 and they confirmed it was likely the base bevel issue and to take it to a shop to reset the edges to 1/1.

FWIW, no offer to pay for the tune and I’m a long time ON3P customer.

I did end up buying a pair of 187 Billy Goats last year because they’re Billy Goats and ON3Ps truly are more durable than other skis, but hearing about the ongoing tune issues has made me look elsewhere when I would otherwise always default to them.


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[big kook]

TGR is not the only forum with people posting about the bevel issue either. The problem seems quite wide spread.

[Sessiøn]

TGR is not the only forum with people posting about the bevel issue either. The problem seems quite wide spread.

You're assuming the one person that mentioned his Jeffrey's being squirrelly is base bevel. So the other people seems to be just you.

[XavierD]

TGR is not the only forum with people posting about the bevel issue either. The problem seems quite wide spread.

Not to be an apologist, and I don’t know what instance you’re talking about, but different forums doesn’t always mean different people.

[SchralphMacchio]

Have had this issue with multiple manufacturers. I only bothered to check with my true bar when I suspected tune issues while skiing, but I really ought to get in the habit of checking each ski right as I get them at the shop or in the delivery box.
My Gen 1 Woods, which, if you get all worked up reading this thread, apparently had a run of such issues on that ski - just had a mild edge high portion only on the tails, almost behind the inflection point of the rocker so I didn't notice it unless I got way bucked onto the tails or was trying to wheelie ... it made them want to dart out to one side or the other while on the tails. It was mild, I wasn't the first owner, and they needed a tune up anyways so I wasn't going to cry foul on it ...
What was more surprising was that my Blizzard R11s were ridiculously edge high out of the plastic wrapper, on *both* the tip and tail rockered sections, and it caused them to ski like shit in 3D snow but marvelously on 2D snow. It was skiing them that made me pull out the true bar! I emailed Blizzard / Nordica tech support with photos and actually got them to agree to pay for a full tune base grind and obviously re-set the edge bevels. Problem solved, they skied gorgeously after that, and I let them know as much.
I understand that as a manufacturer you can't inspect every potential issue off the press, and some of them may only be apparent post cure ... but man I really wish that base flatness was a CTQ for every ski brand, only because of how ridiculously shitty an edge high ski can feel.

[sb]

XYZ would be a kewl ski name.

Although it sounds a bit tail gunnery.

[Going Coastal]

XYZ had some great skis but they switched to umbrellas after a couple of bad winters. A real tragedy for the tail gunner crowd.

https://www.chegg.com/homework-help/...ring-q49646385

[detrusor]

Ok, I should have said it blows me away that serious skiers buying boutique skis don’t check the tune.


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[phatty]

Ok, I should have said it blows me away that serious skiers buying boutique skis don’t check the tune.


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If anything, I should be less concerned with skis coming from a boutique shop than from the big brands.

[Bandit Man]

I know…just don’t buy any more ON3P’s. Problem solved. [emoji6]

[phatty]

I know…just don’t buy any more ON3P’s. Problem solved. [emoji6]

If I can find another pair of 191s, I think I would be set. Always on the lookout for another pair.

[Orthoski]

For anyone having suspected tune issues - what’s been the response when you have emailed customer service, info@on3pskis.com?

I would just think that this is the most straightforward path to a resolution.

Scott was super responsive when I had this issue, offered to have me ship the skis back (they'd pay) and have them redo retune it but just did a base grind and re-edging at a local shop. Fixed the problem instantly.

It's probably harder to standardize at the small shop level than at a big company using a mechanized build process.

[tuco]

If anything, I should be less concerned with skis coming from a boutique shop than from the big brands.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't check them. I tuned enough skis out of plastic in my shop rat days to realize you're not getting a world cup tune from any manufacturer. ON3P's finishes look way better than most. There was(is?) some sort of glitch in their system though that resulted in not enough base bevel. I don't really recall a lot(any?)of reports of unflat bases. Could be wrong but my affected skis(>than 1 pr) were a simple base bevel reset.

If you're a skier, a few simple tools can benefit you greatly and not only save you money but also some life on your skis if youre just grinding every time you feel you need a tune. More than likely, all you need to do is side edge and polish. A 1°base bevel guide can be purchased for $10.95 from UtahSkiGear that works w/ files and stones.
Someone should start a PSA! Tune yer own fucking skis!

[jakezee]

Tuning question:
Got hooked up by Brundo last year with some Kartel 108's that have never been ground and have dull edges. Wondering the best way to do the bases/ angle the edges. I have about zero tuning knowledge besides detuning, so I'd just bring them to the shop and tell them what I want.
They're my E Coast soft snow ski and I just want them to bite when there's hard snow/ ice underneath; and maybe be able to take them out on hard snow just to know how they do.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Cheers[emoji482] !

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