Lightweight tech binding for aggressive skiing: FT 2.0 v. Kingpin v. Ion v. Vipec

[Island Bay]

Yeah, I'm thinking those atomic/salomon ones are looking good. At least the heel pieces. I'm partial to the radical toe piece (purely emotional) but I just want a simple burly heal piece and non-alu toe wings.

Yup, it was between those and the ATKs. I'll be keeping an eye on the Atomic Backlands, hoping there won't be a big failure sh!tstorm around them.

[JRainey]

Yup, it was between those and the ATKs. I'll be keeping an eye on the Atomic Backlands, hoping there won't be a big failure sh!tstorm around them.

I do like how those atks had the sliding afd heel support. For a light binding

[bern43]

well Dynafit say its not the shitty cheap looking black screws so I think you are SOL but do let us know what they say

I totally agree with what lou's take is and what he has written, if you got the grey screws you will probably be OK, and so I only have one more set of screws to break

I don't reallly get what significance the rib might be?

Got a response from Dynafit CS. They'll only upgrade the non-ribed version. I was hoping they'd at least swap the heels for ones with the stronger screws. Overall, IMO they're not handling this issue very well. I'll likely look at non-Dynafit's for my next tech binding.

[rod9301]

One day on my new g3 ions, and so far I love them.

Really easy to get in, easy Thu step in, and easy to get out.

They feel like a precision piece of machinery, much more than the ft radicals that I replaced.

And I like the brakes that stay deployed until you steep on them.

[Atrain505]

Went with local g3 ion's for a lightweight setup for a ski mountaineering trip to the Tantalus for a week. Tested them one day at the resort skiing hard in variable conditions. So far so good. Perform perfectly. Ski very well. Easy transitions. Easy to use. They work plain and simple. Not quite as damp as a Beast 16, but still ski way better than a sloppy and high off the ski marker duke.

Beast 16 remains my on the hill charger setup. Ion's rock the lightweight setup. Skied confidently over exposure many times with them on both good snow and rock hard shitty, icy, crusty snow.

[Judo Chop!]

cool that tech bindings are skiing better than things like dukes these days eh?

I've also been pretty much only using my Beasts inbounds on Blackcomb and touring lately. Other than little finicky step-in issues, they've been pretty bomber, and I'm a pretty big guy.

looking at either kingpin or ion for a lighterweight setup on a new pair of skis. but it's tempting to just do inserts for the beasts and not buy new binders.

[Atrain505]

Beasts are amazing, but the one downside is they are a bit finicky and transitions take time. Transitions are vastly improved with the ion. Lightweight Ion, charging beast combo for me.

[rod9301]

I'm blown away by how easy is to step into the ions.

[smooth operator]

FWIW, I own both the beast 14 and the 16, and prefer the 14 toe piece. It is way less fiddly.
I've had some issues where the beast 16 toe box adjust lever wouldn't go down and I kept loosing my ski while skinning. No such issues with the 14. Also bent a pole trying to step out of the 16 which was full of snow and hence wouldn't open.

Funny btw how this lightweight tech binding thread has moved towards the heaviest tech binding out there....

[skifishbum]

probably over a 100 days on the atk freeraiders 14
bomber 4 me and i like the front toe in brakes
better toe mount pattern
solid time tested volcano
no gimmicky plates or needless bullshit

and dealing with the 3rd dyna tiny little fuckin screws holdin your shit togather
aint gittin it warrunty
telepyronese gots em freeraiders on sale
gits in another

[JRainey]

probably over a 100 days on the atk freeraiders 14
bomber 4 me and i like the front toe in brakes
better toe mount pattern
solid time tested volcano
no gimmicky plates or needless bullshit

and dealing with the 3rd dyna tiny little fuckin screws holdin your shit togather
aint gittin it warrunty
telepyronese gots em freeraiders on sale
gits in another

Do yours have the heel support platform/afd? Does your boot rest on that?

[Atrain505]

FWIW, I own both the beast 14 and the 16, and prefer the 14 toe piece. It is way less fiddly.
I've had some issues where the beast 16 toe box adjust lever wouldn't go down and I kept loosing my ski while skinning. No such issues with the 14. Also bent a pole trying to step out of the 16 which was full of snow and hence wouldn't open.

Funny btw how this lightweight tech binding thread has moved towards the heaviest tech binding out there....

The fiddly issues I have aren't with the toe piece they are with the heel on the beast. But that heel that fully locks you down to the ski with the little locks I think is part of what gives that binding its amazing skiability/dampness for a tech binding.

Beast performs a different function than lightweight. Lightweight I am very impressed with the ion.

[Island Bay]

probably over a 100 days on the atk freeraiders 14
bomber 4 me and i like the front toe in brakes
better toe mount pattern
solid time tested volcano
no gimmicky plates or needless bullshit

and dealing with the 3rd dyna tiny little fuckin screws holdin your shit togather
aint gittin it warrunty
telepyronese gots em freeraiders on sale
gits in another

So happy to hear this. Mine are on the way, and I am very excited to see them and ski them.

My Radical 1.0s gave up the ghost after 30 days, and even thought Dynafit replaced the heel units, I won't go on big tours on them or travel without a backup.

[hop]

If anyone is interested in a set of Beast 14s with 120mm brakes, I have a set that's got 10 runs on them that I want to move along. They ski amazingly well (very alpine-esque) for a tech binding but I've decided they don't have a place in my binding quiver - if I'm on "heavy/charging" gear I'm on NTN; if I'm on tech I'm on Verticals, or soon to be G3 Ions once I get them mounted up.

$420 pp/shipped.

[HHTELE]

OK-
Vipecs are on the way, as is a template.
Read the wildsnow post on mounting, not a whole lot there.
Have mounted Dynafits with both a jig and template, and various others freehand or with template, so I have a pretty good idea of the basics.
But- is there any other good beta on the subject?
With Dynafit, obviously the crux is getting toes lined up. Similar deal with Vipecs?
Anybody out there able to let me learn from their mistakes?
I may do a test mount on some older skis and make sure I like the ride before putting holes in my beloved carbon Converts.

[XXX-er]

.
But- is there any other good beta on the subject?
With Dynafit, obviously the crux is getting toes lined up. Similar deal with Vipecs?
Anybody out there able to let me learn from their mistakes?
..

I always freehand layout tech or frame AT bindings on painters tape, mount heel first deadcenter, then mount the toe deadcenter by ONE screw, allowing the toe piece to pivot around that screw clamp the boot into the binding mark/drill the rest of the screws ... boot should be where its sposed to be.

you could test mount on a old ski but unless you are gona ski it why not test on a 2x4?

[garuda]

OK-
Vipecs are on the way, as is a template.
Read the wildsnow post on mounting, not a whole lot there.
Have mounted Dynafits with both a jig and template, and various others freehand or with template, so I have a pretty good idea of the basics.
But- is there any other good beta on the subject?
With Dynafit, obviously the crux is getting toes lined up. Similar deal with Vipecs?
Anybody out there able to let me learn from their mistakes?
I may do a test mount on some older skis and make sure I like the ride before putting holes in my beloved carbon Converts.

I recently mounted them with a template sent from BD. The BD template is great. Just line up the heel portion for the correct bsl at the black arrow on the front portion and tape together. Make a centerline and bsl on your ski, place the template, mark and drill. A test mount is not a bad idea to make sure your boot ends up where you expect before drilling the main rig. In my experience, no need to do heels/toes/holes separately or sequentially. I drilled and tapped everything then mounted, with minor adjustments made to the toe piece when screwing them down as needed.

[HHTELE]

I always freehand layout tech or frame AT bindings on painters tape, mount heel first deadcenter, then mount the toe deadcenter by ONE screw, allowing the toe piece to pivot around that screw clamp the boot into the binding mark/drill the rest of the screws ... boot should be where its sposed to be.

you could test mount on a old ski but unless you are gona ski it why not test on a 2x4?

I just did this x2, last night.
I have an older jig, and have done a bunch of installs, with various fiddling.
Since I have the comfort jig and radicals, I have been doing 2 toe holes, then using the binding as a jig for a self centering punch. Tried doing just one toe hole by jig, then pivoting to perfect position, then center punching: Two really solid mounts, minimal fiddle.
As far as a test mount- I have skis that would be good rock skis. The extra holes won't bother me.

[ffmedic84]

PSA

On BD's website you can get white Vipecs for $313 shipped w/ the coupon EXTRA20

[Andeh]

I picked up Vipec blacks from Telemark Pyrenees for EU 324 + 32 shipping, so about $391. The extra $80 or so was worth it to me for the improvements in the black.

Regarding the comments above about mounting with a Jigarex, I have one and have noticed that it can get mis-aligned, so I paid special attention when mounting these Vipecs. What I discovered was that the mis-alignment comes from over tightening the centering cranks. If you snug up the tightening nuts on the cranks a bit, then turn the cranks just until they snug up on the ski, it should be centered. To be certain, I used a pair of Slightwright centering stickers to scratch a centerline mark on my Jigarex plates, then put the centering stickers on the skis. Again, being super cautious, I then just used the Jigarex with a Slidewright punch to mark drilling locations, then took off the Jigarex and used the Slidewright (seeing a pattern here?) drilling guide and clamp with punch to center on marks to drill the holes. Everything appeared to be dead nuts on, verified by measurements.

Back to the Vipecs, skied them yesterday for the first time on some brand new Lotus 120s (thanks SAC!) on about 20" of fresh variable density Tahoe "powder". I actually set their DIN a bit lower than I have on Radicals (to 7, down from 8-8.5), and they felt super solid. (150 lbs + touring pack, Vulcans no tongues + Dreamliners, trying to go fast but not hitting any air.) The clamping force of the toe jaws is really noticeable when you step in. I found that I did have to be more careful about really snugging the toe up to the step-in guides. No fiddlyness like the Radical 2 when trying to step in the heel, which is good because I found I really had to give it a good stomp. I really like that I can use them without brakes, or replace the brakes as needed to match ski width. Also, it's way easier to remove the whole heel piece to transfer the bindings between skis with inserts (compared to ST/FT versions of the Radical).

[turbomike15]

I read this whole thread thinking i would know what bindings to buy by the end. alas i'm still torn. Vipec Blacks or Ions?!

[galibier_numero_un]

That's really a tough call. The Black Ions have breaks (they're not LT's)? If so, that might be a deciding factor if you plan on moving them around to different width skis. I was pretty disappointed that I couldn't swap widths on my Ions.

I'm not a typical TGR basher, and both bindings are plenty solid for me.

Toe vs. heel release / tibia vs. ACL protection bias? The idea of a shattered tibia doesn't appeal to me, but then again, I ski conservatively when I'm not near lifts.

... Thom

[hnnaum]

Hello,
for Salomon MTN Explore 95 which one is better, Raider 12 2.0 vs Raider 14 2.0 vs Radical FT 2.0?
If I choose Raider 12 do I need toe plate, (doubt because front 30 x 27mm holes pattern). I'll ski 50% in resort..
Price for Raider 12 2.0 and FT 2.0 is same in my local shop..
Thanks

[smooth operator]

Hello,
for Salomon MTN Explore 95 which one is better, Raider 12 2.0 vs Raider 14 2.0 vs Radical FT 2.0?
If I choose Raider 12 do I need toe plate, (doubt because front 30 x 27mm holes pattern). I'll ski 50% in resort..
Price for Raider 12 2.0 and FT 2.0 is same in my local shop..
Thanks

1. If you change that color people can actually read your question.
2. For resort skiing, I would recommend the radical 2.0 because of the dampening properties of the rotating toe, and hence no need to lock the toes. For strict backcountry use go raider.
Overall, i would recommend the raider for the MTN and getting a more burly resort ski with frame or normal bindings.

[hnnaum]

1. If you change that color people can actually read your question.
2. For resort skiing, I would recommend the radical 2.0 because of the dampening properties of the rotating toe, and hence no need to lock the toes. For strict backcountry use go raider.
Overall, i would recommend the raider for the MTN and getting a more burly resort ski with frame or normal bindings.

Thanks,
I want one ski quiver, because I ski only 15 - 20 days on year, and I want it to be light. I ask whether someone used Raider and whether can say is there a difference in the strength and retention of the toe part between Raider and Radical ?
I already have Radical ST (1.0v) and it is ok for me, but now I want something lighter..