why does everyone hate marker bindings?

[ACH]

Lots of anecdotal BS posted in this thread (though ill-advisedstrategy's assessment of the MRR is spot on IMO) .

Most bindings produced by the major manufactures work pretty damn well these days.
And, as any manufactured item that gets used and abused, they all have a rate of fail as well.

Personal preference drives the choice, ski what you have a good experience with and confidence in, however proper set up and user error is a common denominator for all.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Marker Duke was a game changer, the F12 is even better. They issued in a new era. Kingpins have been great for me so far. The Jester Pro is a solid alternative to the best Solly and Look can offer.

My old M48 Twincams, however, were terrible. They'd come off if I looked at a mogul. It took me a while to get over those things, but I think Marker is killing it these days.

For those who complain about Dukes breaking I ask this: What would have happened if you were skiing Fritschis or, god forbid, Naxos?

[detrusor]

3 things I lived about the MRR heel.
1. Turntable
2. Short mounting distance
3. Clicking your buddies heel off as they got on the chair. Never got old.

[ill-advised strategy]

3. Clicking your buddies heel off as they got on the chair. Never got old.

in my young heyday every teenage chinese downhill turned into a fucking fencing match as everybody tried to release each others MRRs. Good times

[jeppakall]

I currently ski on Jester(2 years) and Duke(~4 years) and I really like them both.

Mostly because it doesn´t matter how badly I crash they never come off and I never have to spend time searching for my skis.

disclaimer: I have never tried any other bindings than Marker. Always ski on race bindings before the new ones.

[ACH]

in my young heyday every teenage chinese downhill turned into a fucking fencing match as everybody tried to release each others MRRs. Good times

Haha, no doubt...
Then there was the time i was getting on a lift at Snowmass...
It had one of those safety bars without a footrest that when up was at exactly the right height to catch the release lever.
Swung my leg back just enough, and click bye bye ski.

[Buster Highmen]

I skied these things for years, raced on them and nevah had a problem.

Pre turntable, light as shit.

Later skied the MRRs for years until I switched to Fritschis.

Now I'm back to Markers.

[NmbrdDays]

Yeah, I'm just going to lie about fracturing my neck.... Go take a lap. The snow conditions changed at the bottom and I hit some sticky snow. I know how to fall, db, it just happened in an instant. My right heel ejected and I came out at the toe on the left. A few techs, and the company rep told me I should never run different din settings. So....... Whether or not I'm misinformed. I'm done with marker, that doesn't mean everyone has to stop using them. Enjoy

[muted]

When I in the middle of a deep turn on a groomer at a normal rate of speed and my new-to-me marker released, I then realized why people hate them. Years later I bought Dukes, and they broke on a 2 foot powder day. Yet I still bought another pair, soon to be mounted and hopefully not to be disappointed again.

Edit: I also have the Tours, which lift a half inch in the toe if I lift up. I'm talking the whole binding, it's not play between the boot and binding....

[east or bust]

The only weird pre-release I've had on Markers was with a pair of Griffons. It was either a pow day or day after and I was on the groom heading back to the lift and had some snow accumulated on the skis. I did the heel toe tap to knock it off and then the ski was gone.

I was going pretty fast, luckily was headed straight and there was no one around me and was able to stop on one ski.

[Angle Parking]

I have about 140 days on a pair of F12's. They have a bit of slop already in the toe piece. When I grab the heal piece (in walk mode) and move it laterally, there is a bit of play in the toe piece. Oblonged plastic holes I believe. They do indeed have lots of plastic like others have mentioned but I guess there has to be a sacrifice for a lightweight frame binding. One of the leather loop on the lever has broken off on one side. No pre-releasees whatsoever. They've been very true on the release front. I very much like them actually. Hopefully the play in the toe pieces does not get worse and lead to more serious issues.

[RegCT]

I prefer the dynamic feel of the turntables over the rigid feel and stack height and weight of the Duke. That said I have total faith in the duke when it comes to my safety and it being a bomber binding. Never had a problem.

[waxman]

hates a strong word
me? i strongly dislike the fucking LEGOness of mounting the pricks, Marker jigs suck, having to use a mallet to bang the heel into place until the worm screw engages, always one or two screws that have fallen out of the plate, grease all over everything and the screwy toe height adjustment
skiing them? step in on royal and squire is double or triple anyone else equivalent binding (the Exell race binding is great), deep snow step in is extremely frustrating as the toe doesn't clear and the aforementioned step in force is redonkulous
and they are the binding of choice for multiple non-K2 group ski companies? boggles the mind

[galibier_numero_un]

I skied these things for years, raced on them and nevah had a problem.

Pre turntable, light as shit.

Later skied the MRRs for years until I switched to Fritschis.

Now I'm back to Markers.

I loved that original Rotomat and hoarded it (for reasons you state), eventually using it with the M-4 toe which at the time, was ground-breaking. The Simplex toe? Not so much (although it was serviceable). Before the M-4 toe came out, I dicked around with a Rotomat/Look toe combo - the one with the wings (not the one which required boot toe notching).

Obviously there is plenty of beta on here about the current and recent product....but they've clearly gotten a lot better.

back in the day the twincam toe had very little elastic travel, so they needed to be set at a really high din to avoid almost-guaranteed prerelease in a chatter scenario....then you'd tear your knee with the high din. The deal was that the assembly would slide a given amount side to side but when it reached it's release point, by design, it dumped open the side wing....IMHO it was a really safe toe for beginner/intermediate level skiing, it just wasn't nearly enough elastic travel for a strong skier unless you set the din high enough that you wouldn't release at all ever--also not great.

Years ago, also, I think a lot of people harbored lingering hard feelings about the chintzy, weird MRR heels that you had to manually close over the heels of your boot, and would eject catastrophically if you accidentally touched the hair-trigger red lever of death.

Maybe it was luck combined with a fondness for the original Rotomat/M-4 combo, but I had good times with the MRR's.

Cheers,
Thom

[ill-advised strategy]

Maybe it was luck combined with a fondness for the original Rotomat/M-4 combo, but I had good times with the MRR's.

Yes, well...I skied the living shit out of several pairs of MRRs and lived to tell about it. It's kind of fun to reach down and engage that heel; and if I recall they served a very important role in French extreme skiing (Pierre Tardivel) because you could get into and out of them without stomping or forcing anything. But, I mean come on, when somebody asks for a discussion of the history of Marker Hate, I think you'd be negligent not to mention those heelpieces.

[Qmcbrew]

Lots of anecdotal BS posted in this thread (though ill-advisedstrategy's assessment of the MRR is spot on IMO) .

Most bindings produced by the major manufactures work pretty damn well these days.
And, as any manufactured item that gets used and abused, they all have a rate of fail as well.

Personal preference drives the choice, ski what you have a good experience with and confidence in, however proper set up and user error is a common denominator for all.

Not anecdotal. At least half of the bindings we failed in our shop were markers from the royal family. That was out of a random sample of 1000+ skis.

They're not the only new bindings having problems. Rossi had to replace all axial 3 heels in our shop because as soon as you put anything bigger then 338 mm sole length in there the nm drop right off.

[ACH]

Not anecdotal. At least half of the bindings we failed in our shop were markers from the royal family. That was out of a random sample of 1000+ skis.

They're not the only new bindings having problems. Rossi had to replace all axial 3 heels in our shop because as soon as you put anything bigger then 338 mm sole length in there the nm drop right off.

Unless you know the complete history of each binding tested, where, how and by who they were skied, or know how much of the market share is owned by one brand over another, it is by definition anecdotal. There is too many variables that you cannot account for. Shear numbers without qualification are just that.

I am not saying that what you say isn't true or that you didn't have the experience as related above.
What wouldn't be anecdotal would be patterns that emerge over that many bindings tested relative to failure, or loss of tolerance, etc.
My guess is that over that many bindings you know exactly what to look for.

Without being able to provide any more specific information beyond a bench test, and knowing the make and model it's hard to draw any conclusion beyond (all) bindings fail or fall out of tolerance at one point or another.

[old goat]

Not anecdotal. At least half of the bindings we failed in our shop were markers from the royal family. That was out of a random sample of 1000+ skis.

They're not the only new bindings having problems. Rossi had to replace all axial 3 heels in our shop because as soon as you put anything bigger then 338 mm sole length in there the nm drop right off.

anyone know what Marker's market share is?

[TomCrac]

Sounds like someone should start posting over at the "Why does everyone hate Look/Rossi, Salomon, Tyrolia bindings thread.

[Qmcbrew]

anyone know what Marker's market share is?

The market share of the 'royal' line isn't half. When old ass marker bindings are consistently functioning fine and royal bindings that are only 2-3 years old consistently function poorly it sets them apart.

maybe my experience isn't purely scientific, but don't tell me that shit doesn't raise some eyebrows.

[old goat]

The market share of the 'royal' line isn't half. When old ass marker bindings are consistently functioning fine and royal bindings that are only 2-3 years old consistently function poorly it sets them apart.

maybe my experience isn't purely scientific, but don't tell me that shit doesn't raise some eyebrows.

not disagreeing, just asking. Tech I go to (until he closed up shop) told me he's rarely had a new Solly or Look test bad but not rare with Marker.

[Jack Burton]

i did love the mrr release, my fondest memory of them was watching a buddys ski fall from about 10' high when he clicked one off doing a twister spread :-), ahh highschool

i did put many years on dukes with minimal problems but for lift served skiing i prefer salomons because markers seem to have an earlier release all else equal

[Angle Parking]

I have about 140 days on a pair of F12's. They have a bit of slop already in the toe piece. When I grab the heal piece (in walk mode) and move it laterally, there is a bit of play in the toe piece. Oblonged plastic holes I believe. They do indeed have lots of plastic like others have mentioned but I guess there has to be a sacrifice for a lightweight frame binding. One of the leather loop on the lever has broken off on one side. No pre-releasees whatsoever. They've been very true on the release front. I very much like them actually. Hopefully the play in the toe pieces does not get worse and lead to more serious issues.

Update; Leather strap now totally gone. I have to pry open the lever with a pole. Huge bummer. Slop has increased to rather disconcerting levels. Not looking good.

[#######]

Olypmic Proof:
@3:32
https://youtu.be/OfHYnyllqec

[summit]

Binding pulled out of the ski... not exactly Marker's fault