Real Estate Question: Buyer Recourse for Incorrect Listing Price?

**RootSkier** · 12-02-2015, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by 4matic

There's 3% raw meat available if you know what you are willing to pay. You can get a real estate attorney for $1k to represent your offer.

This is only true if the property is not already listed. 99% of residential listings are exclusive right to sell, so as others have already stated, the commission is a sunk cost no matter what.

**GoldMember** · 12-02-2015, 12:29 PM

To your original question of buyer recourse; since you didn't buy it, there's no recourse. As you were admittedly 'casually looking', where's the harm? Pull your knickers back up and engage a buyer's agent, if you're actually serious. Otherwise, you'll be wasting someone else's time who actually is trying to make a living with their time, not just casually browsing. Wasting further time for both you and the agent you want to turn into the real estate commission over a Zillow listing is, frankly, chicken shit. Get over it.

**Kinnikinnick** · 12-02-2015, 12:55 PM

What a butthurt loser you are. You're so pissed that a property was improperly listed on a non-mls service that scrapes data off the MLS and wasn't actually listed at the way below market price you thought it was that you'd fuck with the listing agent with a spurious complaint to the real estate commission? How about you go complain to your Mama instead?

What possible gain would this agent have to list at the incorrect or excessively low price? To attract unrepresented morons like you?

You shouldn't get a professional agent to help you actually find active properties and help you professionally, you should go ahead and waste your time and hopefully buy some fucked up piece of shit property through a sellers agent (who will in all likelihood collect both the buyers and sellers side commission) while not looking out for your interests in the least.

**BigSkyfan** · 12-02-2015, 01:12 PM

SOL, even if you offered a contract for the full price when it was advertised at the lower the seller is not obligated to accept your offer. Move on. Stop using sites like Zillow and Realtor.com they pull a lot of information from county records that is often outdated or wrong.Find a realtor to work with.

**RootSkier** · 12-02-2015, 01:40 PM

Doesn't Realtor.com pull straight from Realtor(TM)-sanctioned MLS?

**oftpiste** · 12-02-2015, 01:45 PM

So have I, and I'm an agent but....

That's called negotiation. Sometimes you win and sometimes they win. He could also have told you to fuck off or said (if he was smart and/or not in distressed circumstances), "I think I'll make sure my property is completely exposed to the marketplace before I take your offer. Come back and see me in a month" (listed or not). Many (not all but I'd say a majority) sellers who do the FSBO thing end up shooting themselves in the feet for many reasons.

There are too many variables in your scenario to claim any absolutes. Come on up to Seattle and give that strategy a whirl and listen to the howling laughter.

Originally Posted by mcsquared

Absolutely. I have both bought and sold properties with and without agents. The conversation goes like this:
B- "I can offer you $XXX,XXX for the house."
S- "I'd like to get $YYY,YYY"
B-"Well you are welcome to try to get that price, and you might. But remember you will have to pay .06x$YYY,YYY in commissions"
S- "Good point"

**jvskinn** · 12-02-2015, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by oftpiste

If the property is listed (as this one is) there is already a listing agreement in place which obligates the seller to pay the commission. Typically this will be split between the buyer's agent and the seller's agent. In the case of a property already listed a buyer's agent costs a buyer nothing. You can't negotiate the commission out of the deal to save yourself money unless your agent will work for free.

Does anyone think a seller of a non-listed property is going to sell it at 6% (or whatever) under market value because he's not paying a commission? Prolly not.

Listing agreements are easy to amend (at least in CO), and if a buyer brought an offer without a buyer's agent to represent them that said in effect the seller agrees to reduce price by 3% since they don't have to pay a buyer's agent, then the Seller's Agent would have to present that to their client. At that point, it would be up to the Seller and their agent to negotiate and determine what to do with it. In my experience, most selling agents would likely be fine with only 3% to get the deal done (as that's what they would get paid anyways), as long as they don't have to babysit or do work for the buyer as well.

Is that the best course of action for a buyer? I don't think so. To me, the time/hassle savings of a buyer's agent is worth it, and unless it's a crazy seller's market they can usually help you negotiate 3% off the purchase price anyways.

**krp8128** · 12-02-2015, 05:10 PM

Boy, some of you guys sure get all upset over a simple question. I'm not intending to fuck with some realtors bread and butter, some of these listings were on their own sites listed for the price I posted. Zillow is just a convenient step 1.

As far as getting a realtor to "look out for my interests", I'd rather go it alone. One that I met with last year was clueless, and had I followed her direction would have ended up in a nice 3 bedroom ranch in 5 acres with mold issues and a well contaminated by its own septic. Beleive it or not, I am not as naive as I pretend to be on the Internet for the sake of starting a conversation.

I have reviewed several pieces of property and walked away from several when I found things in the deads, property maps etc. That were a major turn off or headache. I say "casually looking" because I do not have to move tomorrow, and I can wait for the right house or land to build a house. Before you jump on me about my ability to build, TGR has already been there. Between going through 2 family home builds (btw, we didn't have a broker when we bought those lots!) and currently managing the maintenance and facilities of a large automotive supplier with millions of $ in machine and grounds projects next year I think I can handle being the GC for a simple 3 bedroom house.

Thanks to everyone who entertained and confirmed my musings, everyone else can eat a bag of dicks.

**philth** · 12-02-2015, 05:28 PM

Sounds like you are laying down some real roots in SoVt. Good man.

**oftpiste** · 12-02-2015, 05:30 PM

The listing agent could agree to make a deal, but a seller can't unilaterally change a listing agreement.

Most listing agents worth their salt wouldn't reduce their commission by half if they were working with an unrepresented buyer because they'll end up doing 90% of the work for the unrepresented buyer that a buyer's agent would normally do, thereby earning both sides of the commission. This is what happens. Always. I have to show up to let the buyer in for showings, hang out for the inspection, attend/ schedule the appraisal, answer their calls with questions, move/complete all the paperwork, deal with the lender, the closer, blahblahblah. Really. This is what happens. Always. No exceptions. I have no problem with any of that but I'm not going to do it for free.

In your example (given my statements above to be true) the buyer then would be getting the 3% price reduction and the seller would still be paying a full commission. In a vast majority of circumstances there just isn't any upside in a buyer doing the deal without their own agent if the property is listed.

Sellers really don't care about the reasons buyers make a lower offer. It's all about whether or not they can tolerate the price and other terms of the offer. In practice the best way to get a lower offer accepted by a seller is not to give reasons why they should sell for less, but to simply state that that's the price the buyer is willing to pay. The buyer's reasons for the lower price are never reasons that the seller will think are good ones, and sellers usually can find a way to take offense at any reason. Much better success rate for all parties to simply say, "here's my offer. It's for $XXXXX".

Originally Posted by jvskinn

Listing agreements are easy to amend (at least in CO), and if a buyer brought an offer without a buyer's agent to represent them that said in effect the seller agrees to reduce price by 3% since they don't have to pay a buyer's agent, then the Seller's Agent would have to present that to their client. At that point, it would be up to the Seller and their agent to negotiate and determine what to do with it. In my experience, most selling agents would likely be fine with only 3% to get the deal done (as that's what they would get paid anyways), as long as they don't have to babysit or do work for the buyer as well.

Is that the best course of action for a buyer? I don't think so. To me, the time/hassle savings of a buyer's agent is worth it, and unless it's a crazy seller's market they can usually help you negotiate 3% off the purchase price anyways.

**GoldMember** · 12-02-2015, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by krp8128

Good to know. Pretty much everything else j have looked at I have just contacted an agent through Zillow and had the full mls listing/data within a day, and initiated a conversation with an agent. I've looked at a few houses in person this way, looked at some land and was able to see right off that it wasn't want I wanted (i.e. 10 acres with a 9 acre swamp and utility ROW eating up half the solid land).

Agent #1 just got back to me, lot #2 (that they sold for $240k to agent #2) just sold last month for $48k.

Passing this all on to the VT real estate commission tomorrow. Something screwy going on from what I can see

Originally Posted by krp8128

Boy, some of you guys sure get all upset over a simple question. I'm not intending to fuck with some realtors bread and butter, some of these listings were on their own sites listed for the price I posted. Zillow is just a convenient step 1.

As far as getting a realtor to "look out for my interests", I'd rather go it alone. One that I met with last year was clueless, and had I followed her direction would have ended up in a nice 3 bedroom ranch in 5 acres with mold issues and a well contaminated by its own septic. Beleive it or not, I am not as naive as I pretend to be on the Internet for the sake of starting a conversation.

I have reviewed several pieces of property and walked away from several when I found things in the deads, property maps etc. That were a major turn off or headache. I say "casually looking" because I do not have to move tomorrow, and I can wait for the right house or land to build a house. Before you jump on me about my ability to build, TGR has already been there. Between going through 2 family home builds (btw, we didn't have a broker when we bought those lots!) and currently managing the maintenance and facilities of a large automotive supplier with millions of $ in machine and grounds projects next year I think I can handle being the GC for a simple 3 bedroom house.

Thanks to everyone who entertained and confirmed my musings, everyone else can eat a bag of dicks.

Sorry but, which is it? Again, you asked if there was any buyer's recourse. Since you're not a buyer, the question is moot. No, you've suffered no damage so I don't understand what recourse you might think was available. Then you later say you're going to turn it all over to the RE Commission in one post and turn around in another and state that you're not going to fuck with some guy's bread and butter and chastise those who criticized you for earlier saying you were. Don't get your panties all wadded up, you brought the criticism onto yourself. What is it, exactly, you hope to accomplish?

**krp8128** · 12-02-2015, 05:59 PM

Figured I would just go out and irritate someone with nothing be terr to do.

**GoldMember** · 12-02-2015, 06:08 PM

Sorry, I came off harsh in my response but the way you first put the question out made it sound like that's what you were going to do. Sounded a little whiny, even if that's not how you meant it. Peace, out.

**Kinnikinnick** · 12-02-2015, 07:42 PM

You said "buyer recourse" in your thread title, so what possible recourse could you possibly imagine that there could be for this "funny business?" They'd have to sell the property to you at the low price? Give you $50 and a handjob? What could you possibly even imagine would be your recourse?

**shroom** · 12-02-2015, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by oftpiste

There are too many variables in your scenario to claim any absolutes. Come on up to Seattle and give that strategy a whirl and listen to the howling laughter.

fuckkkkk to be an agent in Seattle right now. nice place to be.

**oftpiste** · 12-02-2015, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by shroom

fuckkkkk to be an agent in Seattle right now. nice place to be.

If only that were true. There's no inventory and only those who HAVE to sell are doing listing. I have clients (some of them mags) waiting to find something to buy. If you do jump into the pool as a buyer you have to compete with 10 other offers, give up all your normal diligence periods and pay 20%+ over asking. It's kinda brutal unless you're a seller who absolutely has to make a move.

**Art Shirk** · 12-02-2015, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by oftpiste

If only that were true. There's no inventory and only those who HAVE to sell are doing listing. I have clients (some of them mags) waiting to find something to buy. If you do jump into the pool as a buyer you have to compete with 10 other offers, give up all your normal diligence periods and pay 20%+ over asking. It's kinda brutal unless you're a seller who absolutely has to make a move.

Sounds like it hasn't changed.

**Brock Landers** · 12-02-2015, 11:02 PM

Even if it's a timeshare?

**Steven S. Dallas** · 12-03-2015, 12:13 AM

Contracts 1: ads are not offers.

**Art Shirk** · 12-03-2015, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by Steven S. Dallas

Contracts 1: ads are not offers.

Issue of over-acceptance. My prof Socratically raped me on a fucking footnote. Only gunners read the footnotes.

**Art Shirk** · 12-03-2015, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by Brock Landers

Even if it's a timeshare?

You interested? I might know of a good deal.

**alfajores** · 12-03-2015, 08:44 AM

On that note, we have a few lots in Sammamish, WA on a lake with some unique characteristics. Private drive, 120' waterfront, a solid foundation hundreds of feet closer to the lake than permissible now $900,000 w/ craftsman 4bd 1ba, and another lot for building on that is on the border to a large wooded and trailed city park with mountain biking and equestrian access. An acre or so and a paved driveway. Make offers and I can route you to my parents. We just sold one lot and are working on selling a second. Zoning is R and could allow for multifamily units. We have utilities run to each lot but no sewer on the street so septic or a small waste treatment system would be necessary.

**alfajores** · 12-03-2015, 08:50 AM

Also, our lots are unlisted and my uncle is a broker. We have been privately soliciting buyers through him and large developers. The city erroneously listed the land as wetland thanks to a neighbor wanting to stop us from developing. That was just lifted and we are hoping to box that neighbor out from the light of the sun and increase traffic next to his house by 1000x so he will feel the backlash of his passive aggressive NIMBY "neuvo Washington" ways. I miss the days when Western Washington was not full of conniving sleezeballs and self promoting jerks. That said, if you want wooded land, to put in a home, or to be near the world while living in an oasis of serenity, our old farm is for sale.

**MontuckyFried** · 12-03-2015, 09:03 AM

When I was home shopping here, there was an agent who was notorious for doing this. Would list properties for like 100k under market value. Our agent would call to see what the deal was, and selling agent was like "Well, actually we really won't accept anything less than X amount," being 100k over the list price, bringing it right back up to market value. Place was a dump, so it really wasn't worth market value (and has been for sale for like 3 or 4 years). Anyway, this agent would do this over and over again intentionally to different properties in hopes of spurring bidding wars. We almost got caught up in that. Found a good price on a town home. Said sure, we'll offer them full asking price. Next thing you know, we're pitted against like 4 other buyers at which point we said we were out. Homey don't play that.

Was it annoying? Absolutely. Was there any recourse? No. The agent's soiled reputation was enough recourse. We even passed on another property all together simply because it was listed by that same person.

I agree with the everybody before in that you really should be working with an agent. They'll cut through all the BS for you, and save you a ton of frustration. Especially in a wacky market such as ours.