Playful Charger

[YaBoyBlue]

You guys talked me into it. Fuck it. Just ordered some 188's.

Nice! I prefer the MVP to the Wildcat 108 and the ON3P woodsman 108 as my do everything ski, groomers to 18” of pow they’re great.

They’re plenty loose when bases are flat, but the camber is a plus for yer normal ski conditions. I think they have enough of the CCR feel you might be wanting without the downsides (squirrelly when based flat, groomer performance, and stuck to the ground feel when in heavy 3D snow) I’d recommend giving the stock rocker profile a go.

[bry]

FKNA. Stoked to hear your thoughts on them.

I’m also still curious about a CCR MVP. At 5’7’’~175lb I’d go with 187s, heavy hitter core without carbon, ideally veneer top sheets. I’d be curious to hear Keith’s input on keeping stock 4 flex vs bumping it up to 4+/5.

I bumped from a 4 flex to 5 on my MVP build as Keith told me it would add 3-4 ounces to the overall weight per ski. They came out at 2400g/ski and the flex is strong but by no means too stiff.

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[Self Jupiter]

Nice! I prefer the MVP to the Wildcat 108 and the ON3P woodsman 108 as my do everything ski, groomers to 18” of pow they’re great.

They’re plenty loose when bases are flat, but the camber is a plus for yer normal ski conditions. I think they have enough of the CCR feel you might be wanting without the downsides (squirrelly when based flat, groomer performance, and stuck to the ground feel when in heavy 3D snow) I’d recommend giving the stock rocker profile a go.

I found Stock MVPs and Piste Jibs feel nearly as loose as reverse camber skis until the snow gets really thick or grabby. If I got CCR MVPs I would keep a cambered pair in the quiver, I love them that much. At one point I had 187 and 193 MVPs in the rotation

[whambat]

I’m curious if the ‘24 Rustler 10s in a 192 might fit the bill. More metal but still a fairly playful shape. Might finally be the R10 people have been hoping they’d make.

[Climber Joe]

I’m curious if the ‘24 Rustler 10s in a 192 might fit the bill. More metal but still a fairly playful shape. Might finally be the R10 people have been hoping they’d make.

I’m done with blizzard till they stop using “flipcore” cuz they break down so much faster.

[oltrepiave]

has anyone skied the mfree 108 as well as bentchet100 or the (old, heavier) armada tracer 108
I know those 2 very well, currently on the tracer108 (188 cm) as my everyday touring rig in the Alps and i kinda like the shape (a lot) and the flex (it' ok). They're fucked though, bought them used at a very good price so there isn't much life left in them.

Kinda surprised by the lack of info/talk on the tracers throughout the years (especially the longer version), kind of tempted to start one of those "why do i like these old-ass skis" threads to grasp what i really like about them.

[ASmileyFace]

I've skied the original Tracers and now own the Mfrees. They don't really ski similarly at all. The Mfree is way looser and playful but also has a higher speed limit. I found the tracer (even in the 188cm size) to be lacking in overall power and playfulness. It made predictable turns well but struggled when things got choppy, variable or really deep. I prefer the MFree in almost every capacity, but it also weighs like 500 grams more per ski.

If you're willing to haul the MFree around on the skin track it is a wonderful playful but powerful ski on the downhill

[SnowMachine]

has anyone skied the mfree 108 as well as bentchet100 or the (old, heavier) armada tracer 108
I know those 2 very well, currently on the tracer108 (188 cm) as my everyday touring rig in the Alps and i kinda like the shape (a lot) and the flex (it' ok). They're fucked though, bought them used at a very good price so there isn't much life left in them.

Kinda surprised by the lack of info/talk on the tracers throughout the years (especially the longer version), kind of tempted to start one of those "why do i like these old-ass skis" threads to grasp what i really like about them.

I haven’t skied the MFree 108 yet, but it’s substantially more ski than the BC100. Honestly, I really like the BC100 for what it is. I skied mine for a season and eventually sold them because I wasn’t touring on them enough. They can be light and chattery for firm snow, but do lots of things very well. Float is on the good end of a 100. I would imagine there are a lot of seasons I could ride them everyday (last year in Tahoe).

IMO it is a very respectable, playful, touring ski. A bit light for resort use and doesn’t float well enough for a winter BC ski (searching for soft snow).

[oltrepiave]

I've skied the original Tracers and now own the Mfrees. They don't really ski similarly at all. The Mfree is way looser and playful but also has a higher speed limit. I found the tracer (even in the 188cm size) to be lacking in overall power and playfulness. It made predictable turns well but struggled when things got choppy, variable or really deep. I prefer the MFree in almost every capacity, but it also weighs like 500 grams more per ski.

If you're willing to haul the MFree around on the skin track it is a wonderful playful but powerful ski on the downhill

that was spot on, thanks. I agree that Tracers do everything "meh" but for the price i got them far i'm gonna keep them until i destroy them.They're so average they've become reliable i guess.
I do agree with the lack of power but i sort of appreciate that in shitty bc snow where if i decide to point them i can simply rely on the lenght, the surface and the (medium) mass. I do agree they're not super playful in turn shapes but they are soft so i do enjoy bending them a bit when throwing them sideways or buttering.

500 g extra doesn't sound too bad.

"Honestly, I really like the BC100 for what it is."I loved them as well until I ran out of mount points and stopped using them. Great BC ski, great shape, great flex, decent build quality. I've always used the 180 and it never felt too short, would be great to try or score a pair of used 188, pretty curious about the consequences of going up in length.

[singlesline]

You guys talked me into it. Fuck it. Just ordered some 188's. For anyone else interested, they're on sale (better than the praxis website) at the Cast website.

Per my other thread re: stiff fully rockered skis, I'm still curious about an MVP with CCR, but I figure I should at least try the stock version first. And realistically, I'm guessing my full rocker itch is gonna get scratched by Marshal's (hopefully) upcoming Sickle inspired creation.

How are these treating you as Whitefish skis?

I’m looking at them to replace my daily drivers. Have demoed a few things but nothing has clicked yet. Took out a pair of icelantic nomad 105s this afternoon and did not care for them at all until I pushed that demo bindings forwards 2cm at which point they became only OK. For a supposedly playful ski, they felt sluggish (probably doesn’t help that they are actually like 111 underfoot despite the 105 name).

[toast2266]

How are these treating you as Whitefish skis?

I’m looking at them to replace my daily drivers. Have demoed a few things but nothing has clicked yet. Took out a pair of icelantic nomad 105s this afternoon and did not care for them at all until I pushed that demo bindings forwards 2cm at which point they became only OK. For a supposedly playful ski, they felt sluggish (probably doesn’t help that they are actually like 111 underfoot despite the 105 name).

I'm pretty psyched on the mvp's. Mostly because they're happy at a very wide range of speeds, in a fairly wide range of conditions. They're perfectly happy (and pretty easy) to slow speed noodle through trees. But they also handle high speed soft chop really, really well.

There are a *lot* of options in the 108-ish rocker / camber / rocker category, but I think the mvp's are my personal favorites that I've tried. They really do everything pretty damn well. They reward skiing hard, but don't feel punishing when I'm sloppy. They pop and play without feeling too soft or unstable. And they'll carve a clean turn but are still easy to break into a slarve.

For any specific situation, I can probably name a ski that does it a little better than the MVP. But I can't name another ski that does every situation nearly as well.

I talked about some specifics a bit more in the praxis thread. But yeah, I'm psyched on them. I'm now contemplating grabbing some FRS's (which are just a wider version of the MVP) for a more soft snow specific tool (with the hope that it actually snows in whitefish next year).

[SnowMachine]

"Honestly, I really like the BC100 for what it is."I loved them as well until I ran out of mount points and stopped using them. Great BC ski, great shape, great flex, decent build quality. I've always used the 180 and it never felt too short, would be great to try or score a pair of used 188, pretty curious about the consequences of going up in length.

I mounted my 100's twice. Once on the line and didn't get along with them. Remounted them with Shift's at +3 and skied them a good part of last season. Probably 40 days. At +3 they're a ton of fun. Sizing up to the 188 and moving them forward +3 would be my move if I did it again.

I held onto my BC120's for touring skis and went heavier for inbounds work. I'm really liking 2200-ish gram skis for inbounds charging.

[NotSoBright]

I mounted my 100's twice. Once on the line and didn't get along with them. Remounted them with Shift's at +3 and skied them a good part of last season. Probably 40 days. At +3 they're a ton of fun. Sizing up to the 188 and moving them forward +3 would be my move if I did it again.

I held onto my BC120's for touring skis and went heavier for inbounds work. I'm really liking 2200-ish gram skis for inbounds charging.

The BC100 gets a bad rap with the hardcores because every gnarly intermediate chav is on them, at least here (Whistler-Blackcomb). No young senders would ever be caught dead on them. They're the antithesis of core for that demographic.

I bought some for fucking around skiing with the kids at the local mountain (Cypress), and rad dad park. I got them short for me (180), mounted them +4. And god damn, they're good! It was a total surprise how much I liked them as a DD, even at WB. Yes, the tips are pretty soft, and because they're light, they're not particularly stable in the funk. But underfoot they're still barely stiff enough - just have to ski them really centered. I've been in knee deep with them, and they even seem to float well for a shorter, almost centre-mounted twin. Not the best for the super rowdy lines in the alpine, but everything else, they're just...fun.

[oltrepiave]

I mounted my 100's twice. Once on the line and didn't get along with them. Remounted them with Shift's at +3 and skied them a good part of last season. Probably 40 days. At +3 they're a ton of fun. Sizing up to the 188 and moving them forward +3 would be my move if I did it again.

fuckin spot on. Mine were the first version, 180, went +4, one of my greatest touring setups ever. Then when i had to move mounts and mount a new binding I tried going on the line and didn't really like it, endured one season and then just stopped. On the line it made no sense to me, engaging such soft tips while having a strong platform underfoot and in the tails made directional, driving-the-tips skiing even less fun to me.

If i ever manage to find a 188 i'll just buy it and mount at +4 or 5 maybe.

The BC100 gets a bad rap with the hardcores because every gnarly intermediate chav is on them, at least here (Whistler-Blackcomb). No young senders would ever be caught dead on them. They're the antithesis of core for that demographic.

ha, this was interesting. Living in the middle of nowhere in the Alps, busting the bc100 out on the skintrack 3/4 years ago always made me feel like a true badass.

[SnowMachine]

They're Dad skis around here, just like my Enforcer 110. IMO the 110 is one of the best inbounds skis ever.

[phatty]

I've been loving the Moment Commander 108 in this slot the second half of the season. They lean on the charger side (70/30), but I find they give back a good amount of energy. Still fun on side hits and a strong, supportive tail for bigger jumps. They have the top end backbone that I missed in the MFree 108, but do give up the poppy, slarviness a bit. I bought a new pair of MFrees and am debating whether to keep them.

[oltrepiave]

I've been loving the Moment Commander 108 in this slot the second half of the season. They lean on the charger side (70/30), but I find they give back a good amount of energy. Still fun on side hits and a strong, supportive tail for bigger jumps. They have the top end backbone that I missed in the MFree 108, but do give up the poppy, slarviness a bit. I bought a new pair of MFrees and am debating whether to keep them.

how stout is the flex on those? think of ranking/scoring it à-la blister

[phatty]

how stout is the flex on those? think of ranking/scoring it à-la blister

I would say 8.5. I think that's where Blister rated them. Their review seemed pretty accurate, but I think they overstate things a bit. I don't feel like I have to be "on" the whole time I'm skiing them.

https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...-commander-108

[singlesline]

I'm pretty psyched on the mvp's. Mostly because they're happy at a very wide range of speeds, in a fairly wide range of conditions. They're perfectly happy (and pretty easy) to slow speed noodle through trees. But they also handle high speed soft chop really, really well.

There are a *lot* of options in the 108-ish rocker / camber / rocker category, but I think the mvp's are my personal favorites that I've tried. They really do everything pretty damn well. They reward skiing hard, but don't feel punishing when I'm sloppy. They pop and play without feeling too soft or unstable. And they'll carve a clean turn but are still easy to break into a slarve.

For any specific situation, I can probably name a ski that does it a little better than the MVP. But I can't name another ski that does every situation nearly as well.

I talked about some specifics a bit more in the praxis thread. But yeah, I'm psyched on them. I'm now contemplating grabbing some FRS's (which are just a wider version of the MVP) for a more soft snow specific tool (with the hope that it actually snows in whitefish next year).

Ok, I'm convinced.

Placed an order with the custom sale so I could choose top sheets (although the stock topsheet is my favorite of their stock skis and would have been my #2 or #3 choice). Going with stock flex unless they suggest different based on what I told them.

Cost a little more than through CAST (no free shipping), but hey...they threw in $65 worth of rub on wax so we'll call it even.

[altabrig]

Tried the mfree108 192 got bouncy in heavier set up when let go straight out of the steep. Relatively slarve.
Ranger 108 a bit light and lively feeling and tails wanted to carve. Not chargey.

New Atris 190ish. Funner woody poppynot super stable straight in heavy crud but a good balance. Likes to pop-up and ouy easy for a long 105.

Unleashed 186 skies short and tails were washy. Maybe longer? Seemed to flex weird in the tail in the heavy crud and got a bit bouncy. Could have been a bad mount for me. Washout slarves.

Those sender 110 frees, 24' Rustler 11, and enforcer 110s ore 110 frees are on my dad ski list. I like the 110-112 underfoot seems a sweet spot for a Chargey playful DD.

Does rhe m-pro 108 have any riders who would call it playful? Probably no.

Sender 106 ti?

[toast2266]

Ok, I'm convinced.

Placed an order with the custom sale so I could choose top sheets (although the stock topsheet is my favorite of their stock skis and would have been my #2 or #3 choice). Going with stock flex unless they suggest different based on what I told them.

Cost a little more than through CAST (no free shipping), but hey...they threw in $65 worth of rub on wax so we'll call it even.

Nice. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on them.

I think I'm gonna do a custom frs through the sale. Probably just stock layup. Still deciding on topsheet.

[kc_7777]

Isn’t a playful charger exactly what Line has done with the Blade Optic 104 and 114?

Basically they made a heavier ski, with metal but with an “easy to ski” shape? Lots of tip and tail rocker and pretty stout underfoot. And a -7cm mount.

The 178 measures the same length as a 180 Rustler. I think the 104 also comes in a 185 and 190cm? Haven’t measure those.

I’ve skied (and liked) lots of 4FRNT (Ren, Raven, Hoji), Moment (Bibby’s), Lib-Tech (NAS Pows) and Factions (CT 5). I currently have the Optic 114 and so far it skis awesome. I am likely picking up the Optic 104 for next year too. I think the Blade Optic 114 and 104 are great complements to my 112 Hoji and 104 Raven.

This Line vid does a decent job explaining how they ski. Mix of burly and playful.

https://youtu.be/18oz_Ep-Ol8


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[altacoup]

After snapping my green qst 106 in half, I’m between the enforcer free 104, blade optic 104 and new qst 106 for a DD. Currently on a 108 Mindbender and the tip is just to light. Good on edge making schooler turns, but to one dimensional for my liking. Which of the above offers the best suspension, slarve to carve ability, and pros/cons on hardish vs softish snow?

[SacTo]

After snapping my green qst 106 in half, I’m between the enforcer free 104, blade optic 104 and new qst 106 for a DD. Currently on a 108 Mindbender and the tip is just too light. Good on edge making schooler turns, but to one dimensional for my liking. Which of the above offers the best suspension, slarve to carve ability, and pros/cons on hardish vs softish snow?

Took my Hotshots out in day after storm conditions with funky 3D snow everywhere and a few inches of new powder. They absolutely charge, slice and dice, and pop off of everything without getting deflected.

[Sylvan]

I've been loving the Moment Commander 108 in this slot the second half of the season. They lean on the charger side (70/30), but I find they give back a good amount of energy. Still fun on side hits and a strong, supportive tail for bigger jumps. They have the top end backbone that I missed in the MFree 108, but do give up the poppy, slarviness a bit. I bought a new pair of MFrees and am debating whether to keep them.

Good description. The only thing I regret selling more than Commander 108s is my Carbon Sentinel. Stupid.