Need a new furnace

[RShea]

Plenty of threads on repair or troubleshooting on here, not many on purchasing a new one. Great Lakes region home, 2 story mid to late 60's construction home of about 1800 square feet. Natural Fuel gas. Existing furnace was old now very inefficient by today's standards 150K btu and just starting the search and estimates.

So found http://www.furnacecompare.com and discussions on brands, warranties, and plenty of reviews. Seems like every negative review is because the warranty is on parts only and the labor to install the part was expensive, or the issues of registering the warranty info with the company gets you a longer number of years and the installer did not register it.

Decisions like is it worth spending $500 or a bit more for a 95 percent efficiency vs a lower rated 80 or so?

Installation, there will be some duct work required to tie into the new furnace due to size differences and opening.

Pick a contractor you trust is key, but they are all going to try and talk a good sales pitch.

[Cruiser]

Any good energy co rebates in your area for going with the 95% models? We recently put one in and the 2 stage blower is nice. We run it on recirc mode 24/7 to keep the air in the house moving during heating and cooling seasons. Got like $250 back from the power co.

Be aware that they'll need to duct the higher efficiency unit out of a wall using pvc pipe instead of the old flu pipe. It's not a big deal but is something to know going in.

[Obstruction]

Good site with some valuable info!

Been a long while since I purchased a high efficiency gas furnace (92%) and it has served us well.

An additional point I'll make in their favor is that the high efficiency unit can direct vent to the side of the house while the 80% units need chimneys. Chimneys = chimney maintenance! cleaning etc. which ain't cheap.

Lately our nearly 20 year old unit has needed a couple of pricey repairs but parts warranties and maintenance plans eased the pain. I almost always steer clear of extended warranties and service plans preferring to "self insure" but a service plan on a "mature" furnace is a no brainier.


Also the more efficient unit will add to the home's value when it is time to sell.

[liv2ski]

We had an old Bryant furnace that served us for 20+ years with no issues. We updated it about 8 years ago with the same brand. No issues at all so far. It has an electronic air filter I rinse in the dishwasher maybe once a year, rather than those paper and fiberglass looking filters.
I can run the system anytime to clean the air, based on the filter in uses. At the time, I was a dope not to have AC installed for about $3k more, as now I wish I had it. I obviously would recommend that brand.

[Foggy_Goggles]

There are quality HVAC contractors and there are furnace installers. I like Lennox high efficiency combined with a quality programmable thermostat.

[Garth Bimble]

Like others said check into the availability of rebates/tax credits on the HE units. I bought one 4 years ago and by the time I got all the rebates/credits it was significantly less than a standard 80% unit. Cost me around 6K to get the furnace/central air units replaced (3000 sq ft home) but netted out around 3K. You'll save on gas too but it doesn't amount to much on the short term. Long term it adds up.

[4matic]

At the time, I was a dope not to have AC installed for about $3k more, as now I wish I had it. I obviously would recommend that brand.

It's easy to add on. Plug and play. Wouldn't cost much more than $3k to add it.

[XXX-er]

4 years ago I got an 80,000 btu HE 95% gas furnace and upgraded to R50

The energy rebate cut the upgrade costs in half which cut the gas bills in half and the funace is now paid off so now its all free money

definatley get 3 quotes cuz the cheapest (and best) was only 4000$ while the other guy was 6500$ and the last guy never showed up, the cheap guy didn't have a store front so he has lower over head

the cheap guy also had an istalers certification the other guy didnt have so that was worth another 100$ rebate BUT the more expensive guy was gona instal the vent not according to code

cuz yes the vent can go right out the side of the house but its gotta be 10' from any window or air intake, it might also be hard to put the vent out the side of the house if your basement is totally developed or the floor joists run the rong way so localy what contracters have been doing is replacing the furnace and the gas water heater with an electric (only down side is slow recovery) water heater which allows them to put the furnace intake & exhast up the old gas vent

after you get your quotes do research on the furnace buddy wants to instal, my contractor quoted on a Rheems which I had never heard of but it gets good reviews so I went for it, my research showed popular names that didn't get good user reviews, the rheems has been fine

the contracter put an extra air return downstairs which keeps the tennants warm so they don't turn on the auxilary baseboard heat so yeah a good contracter is worth money back in yer pocket

[RShea]

Hot water heater is electric so no vent for that exists even though it it next to the furnace. The furnace is close enough to an area of the house where there is no basement under the family room and the vent could go under the floor of that out to the back of the house under that area. Of course there is a chimney with the opening for the old furnace right next to it and a fire place in the family room. Still have loss of heat going up through the chimney with the 80% efficiency units.

[Shredhead]

How long you plan to stay is the big question?

[RShea]

How long you plan to stay is the big question?

No clue, but I would think the small amount of money you are talking (in the big picture of things only ~$500) a higher efficiency would increase the value some at the time of a sale. Unless it is old and on it's last leg anyway needing replaced.

[XXX-er]

around here a 30-50 yr old house would usually have a gas furnace and a gas water heater in the basement sharing a vent so if you went HE furnace/ electric water heater you could put the furnace intake & vent both up the old vent

The math of my new furnace is that the gas bill had been 220$ per month or 2640$ per year, I spent < 6000 on the new furnace & R50 which cut the gas bill in half so I have saved 1320$ per year or after 4.5 years I've saved 5940$ which would buy that furnace & R50 but the rebates covered almost half of the 6K so I was paid off in <3 years

I would definatley replace a 30 yr old POS with a 95% HE furnace again

[RShea]

around here a 30-50 yr old house would usually have a gas furnace and a gas water heater in the basement sharing a vent so if you went HE furnace/ electric water heater you could put the furnace intake & vent both up the old vent

Only thing gas in the house is the furnace. Some houses here are all gas- stove, hot water, furnace of course, even the clothes dryer. During the time of building some had promotions where one utility would give bigger discounts on going all gas or all electric appliances.

[The AD]

Cost me around 6K to get the furnace/central air units replaced (3000 sq ft home)

For both? Are you serious? I got a quote for air a couple months ago and it was about $7K just for the a/c.

[Garth Bimble]

For both? Are you serious? I got a quote for air a couple months ago and it was about $7K just for the a/c.

That's for replacement, not new install. Might have been a little more but not much. Don't live there anymore.

[highangle]

Plenty of threads on repair or troubleshooting on here, not many on purchasing a new one. Great Lakes region home, 2 story mid to late 60's construction home of about 1800 square feet. Natural Fuel gas. Existing furnace was old now very inefficient by today's standards 150K btu and just starting the search and estimates.

So found http://www.furancecompare.com and discussions on brands, warranties, and plenty of reviews. Seems like every negative review is because the warranty is on parts only and the labor to install the part was expensive, or the issues of registering the warranty info with the company gets you a longer number of years and the installer did not register it.

Decisions like is it worth spending $500 or a bit more for a 95 percent efficiency vs a lower rated 80 or so?

Installation, there will be some duct work required to tie into the new furnace due to size differences and opening.

Pick a contractor you trust is key, but they are all going to try and talk a good sales pitch.

A little info can save you a lot of $$ in HVAC, RShea...


1. HVAC is commoditized, buy what's cheapest, as brands don't mean as much as they did 40 years ago. Goodman started this, and now makes most components for most American manufacturers.

2. Higher HFUE (SEER for heating) pays off over the short/medium term. So the smart move is to spend the $$ on the front end. This may also get you rebates from your utility companies.

3. HVAC sizing is important. There are online calculators where you can input your town as well as your home's variables to arrive at what you need. This is how engineers and contractors do it.

4. HVAC is very competitive, and there's lots of skilled tradesmen who moonlight. There are also wholesalers and distributors who will sell to you (or your moonlighter) in every city. You don't have to pay retail.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...08#post4527708

Best of luck.

[RShea]

Well had already visited at least 1 of the sizing sites asking for house size, location (zones) and recommend 95,000 to 100,000 BTU on the high efficiency models. Contractor ordered and is installing a Amana (Goodman's parent company - Daikin Group).

Monday is install date.

Liked the warranty on the exchanger.

[sanjuanworm]

www.taylormfg.com

[uglymoney]

Go 95% plus for sure! Nobody want to buy a house with an 80 seer furnace anymore. You'll almost certainly get a good rebate. Right now NG is cheap because of all the fracking but when it was expensive a few years ago those 80% were cash machines- deposit only. I bought my house from a builder and it had an 80% furnace already installed, but I managed to get them to install a high efficiency ac - which incidentally is still running awesome after 12.5 year while our neighbors are always recharging or already replacing. Anyway, every time someone comes over and looks at the furnace they shake their heads in disgust that a well insulated 2x6 house with R-60 in the attic has such a junk furnace and I concur.

[RShea]

www.taylormfg.com

Don't need a tobacco barn, and while there are some vineyards in the area, don't think a Grape harvester or pruner. And the water stove requiring wood burning to be replenished and stoking the fire out back is not very good solution either unless you have property big enough to supply some of your own wood. Plus having to have a way to circulate the hot water through the home - radiators or base board coils?? Add to it possibly paying someone to stop by and put more wood in if you go on a ski trip or risk a home that will be really cold and risk of frozen pipes would be another issue with your suggestion.

[XXX-er]

I have a tenant down stairs so I can't be fuckign around with wood heat or stuff that works half ass, with the programmable thermostat I can go away for weeks at a time in a cold winter season and the whole thing works flawlessly and automagicaly

[huckbucket]

I'm just here to add that if you can justify to your primary care or allergy doc the fact that you need a little extra filtration, you can write off the cost of HEPA or similar. My bro did this and saved some cash. Only if you need/want.

[L7]

You're already going ahead so what I say doesn't matter. First was 150k BTU is a big assed unit for a 1800' house. So I wondered if there was any insulation. I was going to suggest 120k at 92+%. One consideration would be the two stage but also a variable speed blower. If your furnace doesn't have to cycle on and off all the time it will operate more efficiently. It can run all day on the low stage and kick in and out to high when need be. It could help you get by with a smaller unit like the 100 they are installing. I always find the venting gets tricky. Intake has to be a foot or more from outlet, and windows or doors can't be nearby. The stuff that comes out can be pretty corrosive so you don't want it trapped anywhere. Had one under and overhang and it started peeling paint pretty quick.

[RShea]

You're already going ahead so what I say doesn't matter. First was 150k BTU is a big assed unit for a 1800' house. So I wondered if there was any insulation. I was going to suggest 120k at 92+%. One consideration would be the two stage but also a variable speed blower. If your furnace doesn't have to cycle on and off all the time it will operate more efficiently. It can run all day on the low stage and kick in and out to high when need be. It could help you get by with a smaller unit like the 100 they are installing. I always find the venting gets tricky. Intake has to be a foot or more from outlet, and windows or doors can't be nearby. The stuff that comes out can be pretty corrosive so you don't want it trapped anywhere. Had one under and overhang and it started peeling paint pretty quick.

The footage was from memory at work, when I checked again it was closer to 2000. Did go with a model that is 2 stage and variable speed.