New Softshell Recs?

**rod9301** · 10-27-2015, 08:00 AM

It's a few years old, I bought a couple of them

**Lindahl** · 10-27-2015, 08:02 AM

Sounds like the 10x more breathable 2012 ones. Can you breath through the fabric with some resistance? Thats the real test.

**rod9301** · 10-27-2015, 08:33 AM

Yeah, I can. I also have an arcteryx wind shirt, two years old and it's also pretty breathable.
What did they do to the fabric to make the houdini less breathable?

**Lindahl** · 10-27-2015, 08:51 AM

Different fabric with a MUCH tighter weave. I think they were trying to make it lighter, but boned it pretty bad by going with a completely windproof fabric. Either that or people complained it wasn't windproof without realizing the ramifications?

**enginerd** · 10-28-2015, 04:51 PM

Interesting. I'm also using an older version of the houdini that has a slightly different fabric. I knew they changed the cut and cuffs and fabric but I didn't realize they changed breathability. Here is a pretty good review from 2014 that made me believe the new houdini is still in the lead wrt the other wind shirts you mention:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Zfd_TJlXo

My understanding is that 5CFM is basically the line between feeling the wind and not feeling the wind. So, anything less than 5CFM feels windproof. Anything less than 3CFM probably isn't "soft" shell (ie probably has a membrane and wont make the performance cut for breathability).

My understanding was that the houdini and the ready mix/ascentionist were both 5CFM (I dont think the houdini has ever been much higher than 5CFM?) so the performance was very similar and it just came down to pockets and durability appropriate to your application. This has matched well with my real world experience.

Here is an interesting thread from 2009 with unverified numbers:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...hread_id=26774

In my experience, a thinner layer that breaths well but blocks wind effectively (say 5CFM) allows me to go a little lighter because I can use a very thin baselayer and still stay warm enough in cool temps with just a wind shirt. Throw on a light weight synthetic puffy over that and it's going to take a while to kill me.

It's all about finding the balance of creating a thin microclimate against your skin (blocking wind) while still allowing your body to cool (breathability). I've found that 5CFM seems to preserve a microclimate pretty well in a variety of conditions while with 35CFM fabric that microclimate breaks down quickly with a little breeze.

I have another marmot m3 softshell that is somewhere up around 35CFM and it has such little wind resistance at that point that it really is significantly less effective at keeping me comfortable in a cold wind. I honestly compare it more with fleece than anything with "shell" in the name. Yeah, I know fleece is like 200 CFM, but once you start feeling the wind (ie after 5CFM) evaporative cooling becomes exponentially more noticeable.

I also know that compared to my partners, I run very warm and sweat a lot. I can push just a base layer into pretty cold temps. I'm often opening the zipper in the houdini, rolling up the sleeves or taking it off all together. If I'm comfortable in a base layer, I shouldn't have it on anyway. Does this mean it's not breathable enough? I suppose that's personal choice. My opinion, is that a soft shell is more useful if it offers a little more wind resistance and maintains a micro climate against your skin. However, of course, the ultimate goal of a soft shell is to have something you can leave on most of the time...trades...they're different for different people.

**Island Bay** · 02-23-2016, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Island Bay

Mountain Equipment Orbital.

This a is a very good jacket. Two pockets in just the right place; kept me almost dry hiking for 8 hours in mod to heavy rain; nice fit; lightweight; thin and breathable (but still has a very light soft backing).

I think it's no longer in production, but obviously available.
http://www.climbers-shop.com/1060770...al-jacket.aspx

Just a quick update on the Mountain Equipment Orbital, after 16 days straight of touring with it in Japan.

I was ready to call it the perfect touring jacket - but that probably doesn't exist. After 10 days in sun, wind, and moderate snowfall, I had not been wet for even a minute; such incredible breathability, and snow would sluff off easily.

The one day when I should have worn my hardshell, I didn't. It snowed 150cm in 24hr - enough that you couldn't see your partner at 30m, could not hear a thing if not yelling etc, and that was too much for it. I got wet shoulders, and soon a wet back from snow piling up between jacket and pack.

Putting on my OR Cathode on top kept me warm and comfy for the rest of that day, but both jackets needed good drying that evening.

I wore the Orbital over a light merino base layer (onesie) - nothing else. Happy skinning/skiing from -15C to +5C, except on the long, dreary groomer at the end of the day.

**dark_star** · 02-24-2016, 09:37 PM

I'll throw in my two cents - I've tried Trew softshell, BD Dawn Patrol LT, but my personal favorite I've used for the past two years is by far the Patagucci Knifeblade pullover - now reissued as knife edge. Very light with powershield pro membrane- normally I'd say no membrane but powershield pro is special. I like to move fast to stay warm and my kit for most weather 10-15 F and up is silkweight base layer with the knifeblade on top, then one of two puffies for stops. Great wind protection, reasonably waterproof, and amazingly breathable/quick-drying for what it is. I have seen it dry during a skin up. Really happy with it and would buy again. I think Powershield Pro is great stuff.

**enginerd** · 02-25-2016, 12:46 AM

So I picked up a new Houdini on super clearance recently. No doubt the new design is significantly less breathable. Side by side breath tests are noticeably different with the newer model being way more resistant.

I've also been really loving the mountain equipment orbital jacket. Basically the same fabric as the old patagonia ready mix. Approximately 5cfm, light weight and durable with the right feature set for climbing. I'm beginning to think that 5cfm is the magic happy place for non membrane softshells. Generally, I think these are better.

However, I agree that the knifeblade (now kniferidge) is remarkable. I've tested mine in a little more wide variety of conditions now. No doubt it can handle snow and block wind. It also breaths better than any other membrane soft shell I've used. The main thing that drives me away from membrane softshell besides breathability is drying time. However, two weeks ago I had the knifeblade on a ice climb that was dripping on me for 3 hours. It was soaked. However, within an hour of getting off the route the jacket was dry. Awesome stuff that power shield pro.

**Lindahl** · 02-25-2016, 11:57 AM

Powershield Pro is generally too warm for me. Doesn't breath enough unless its really nasty out and I'm above treeline most of the time. For me, it works better as a sidecountry outer layer paired with a puffy when on the lifts.

LC · 11-05-2016, 11:34 AM

Anyone have any updated 2016 softshell recommendations?

I'm looking for a new stretch-woven hooded jacket for fine weather ski touring & autumn biking. I've been using an old Patagonia Guide Hoody (AKA Simple Guide Hoody) for about 4 years for touring which I like OK, performs fine and has quite a heavy fleece-backed fabric that means I go most days with just a heavy baselayer and that piece but the bulk is no good on the bike so I think I'd like a lighter fabric and just take an extra layer in my bag when skiing. The XL fits me OK but a little too short & wide for my tall/slim build.

I tried a few on today. Arcteryx Gamma LT was by far the best fit, but had an Arcteryx price tag. I should be able to try a BD Dawn Patrol (same as the old Dawn Patrol LT I think) and Patagonia Levitation on tomorrow. A friend really liked his Dawn Patrol but I think I remember the Levitation being bulkier than I'd like when I tried it on a while ago. OR Ferrosi seems to get a few mentions here, would surely be the lowest-bulk option for biking but I don't think I can try it locally for fit. Anyone out there with an XL care to measure the chest width and zip length for me? Even L or XXL measurements could be useful.

**Lindahl** · 11-05-2016, 01:31 PM

ME has some good stuff... they need a US distributor though?

**dark_star** · 11-07-2016, 07:05 AM

Patagucci has some really good prices on their last season clearance section now.

LC · 11-07-2016, 09:23 AM

I tried a Patagonia Levitation today. Sizing wasn't great for me; L a little short in the sleeves, XL a little too much width in the torso. Kniferidge L fit me perfectly but it retails for more than I'm looking to spend and more weatherproof than I need.

Arcteryx Gamma MX XL seemed to fit a little shorter than the Gamma LT and I preferred the thinner material of the LT.

I need to try on a BD Dawn Patrol and I'll probably buy it or the Gamma LT depending on price & fit. I'd really like to try a Ferrosi but can't find one anywhere. If I can find a French/Euro online shop with it in stock I might order and return.

Thanks for the help, any more suggestions keep em coming.

Update: I tried the Gamma LT again today and I'm right between L and XL sizes (6ft4, 80kg). Tried the BD Dawn Patrol (L) too; the fit is way better than anything else I've tried and the stretch is nice - pretty sure this is what I'm going for.

**Practitioner** · 09-17-2017, 12:07 PM

Anyone tried the Arcteryx Psiphon FL? Specifically looking for comparison to the OR Ferrosi, which seems to be a lot of peoples favorites here in the lightweight softshell category.

**Gerome** · 09-18-2017, 05:20 PM

Havent tried the Arcteryx. I am here to complain that Costco changed their $20 softshell design to fit a wider person. My old softshell that is in great condition, got a little faded, so I'm onto a new $20 Costco softshell, but it's so much bulkier and has a less athletic cut. Sucks!

**stuckathuntermtn** · 09-19-2017, 10:29 AM

My chest is wide and my arms are long, so that might work for me. Was thinking of picking up an L to work better layering or on a bike or whatever. XL works, but bulks up a little when worn under a shell.

**doebedoe** · 09-19-2017, 10:42 AM

Broader softshell question: where the hell are the Polartec Powersheild Pro jackets?

Patagonia doesn't seem to have the KnifeBlade/KnifeEdge jacket around any more. REI made something with this supposed wonder-fabric but doesn't have it anymore. Has it been eclipsed by something else? I haven't used the fabric, but trying on the KnifeEdge -- it seemed pretty awesome. As do reviews of it.

**Groomer Gambler** · 09-21-2017, 11:04 AM

Anyone on here own an REI softshell?

I tried one of these on at a store last week and liked the material and fit. Want to think it over and try to score online for cheaper though:

https://www.rei.com/product/892144/r...in-jacket-mens

**PNWbrit** · 09-21-2017, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Groomer Gambler

Anyone on here own an REI softshell?

I tried one of these on at a store last week and liked the material and fit. Want to think it over and try to score online for cheaper though:

https://www.rei.com/product/892144/r...in-jacket-mens

Fuck me that's an ugly coat..

"armadillo taupe"

maybe it might be better looking in "pangolin green"