Heroin

[mtngirl79]

When I was in the ER before my surgery they gave me this pain med through the IV that I don't remember what was called but it gave me this head rush not unlike an ice cream head ache for a minute tops right after they inject it. They didn't warn me and initially I did not like it.

After about the third time I started to enjoy the head rush as I knew the euphoria that would follow.

I could totally see getting addicted to that.

They gave me way more oxycodone for after, too. I could have been fine with none. I gave them away.

[Peruvian]

Its an epidemic in VT. Unfortunately. Break-ins are increasing in many communities with second homes targeted. Mostly addicts looking for prescription pills and stuff they can easily sell to buy heroin.

[detrusor]

When we moved to park city my kid went into the doc in a box for strep. Came out with a script of 30 lot tabs for a sore throat. A fucking sore throat. Reported the doc to DOPL.

[ScrewYou]

I got fentanyl in the hospital, for a cyst removal. I didnt know what it was, they just told me it was like morphine. Holy shit, i felt all warm and euphoric inside, numb to anything negative for like 10 minutes, and then nauseaous and bitchy for 2 days after.

I think a lot of ODs are happening slightly more often now because the dealers are cutting the heroin with more crap, whooknows what, and then putting a little fentanyl in it to give it the kick, or intense rush. One small slip of the spoon, or whatever the heck they use, and theres too much fentanyl. Boom Overdose

[KQ]

When we moved to park city my kid went into the doc in a box for strep. Came out with a script of 30 lot tabs for a sore throat. A fucking sore throat. Reported the doc to DOPL.

Had an ER doc offer up Oxy like candy when I went in for a really bad eye infection. I declined as I'm not a fan and it wasn't so bad that I couldn't deal with Advil and a hot compress. All I needed was an antibiotic to clear it up.

Prior to him coming in to look at me I overheard him with a mother and daughter behind a curtain adjacent to me. They actually asked for Oxy - sounded REALLY fake on their part "Oh Dr. my daughter's back hurts sooooooooooooo bad, can she please have some Oxy? Please?" Daughter sounded to be about 14 - 15 when she said "yeah, hurts bad right here". Doc said "sure thing!"

I got fentanyl in the hospital, for a cyst removal. I didnt know what it was, they just told me it was like morphine. Holy shit, i felt all warm and euphoric inside, numb to anything negative for like 10 minutes, and then nauseaous and bitchy for 2 days after.

Had Fentanyl in the ER after my skiing accident. I was actually psyched when they told me they were going to give it to me as I'd heard quite a bit about it from my friends who are anesthesiologist who called it "a wild ride". Also had an insurance case where the anesthesiologist became addicted to it (would draw out more ccs than he needed for a patient, give the patient his dose then go to a hall closet and shoot the rest up). Guess it's really common for the docs to become addicted.

In any case I was interested to experience it in a controlled setting not to mention I was 8 hrs out from breaking two of my limbs so I was hurting a bit. It was an amazing rush - ran over my body like a wave. Left me in a sort of out of body experience because after that I remember them removing my silk long underwear and hearing a strange moaning sound that I assumed I was making because of the pain but it sounded like it was coming from somewhere else.

After that I was on a morphine drip for 4 days which totally sucked. What an icky drug. Made me itch like crazy but it was all they would give me for pain.

[NoPostholio]

Heroin / oxy / et all are and have been for centuries a cash cow. The brits fought two wars to keep smuggling it from china - it has always made plenty of people rich b/c of the processing, esp on the big pharma end.

There has never been any interest in fixing the mj and mmj laws because it is a farrm to market item with only small business interests (for now) making any money. Wait until about 5 yrs from now when 75% of the people trying to kick heroin are doing it with mj, and it will have a lot better success rate than the jv team treatment (methadone).

eta - not that plenty of people haven't and will make fuck tons of cash, it is just that the ability to self produce is there. Nobody is growing their own poppy except for bagels.

Anyone who wants to see a bleak but great film about the drug wars should see sicario -

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I got fentanyl in the hospital, for a cyst removal. I didnt know what it was, they just told me it was like morphine. Holy shit, i felt all warm and euphoric inside, numb to anything negative for like 10 minutes, and then nauseaous and bitchy for 2 days after.

I think a lot of ODs are happening slightly more often now because the dealers are cutting the heroin with more crap, whooknows what, and then putting a little fentanyl in it to give it the kick, or intense rush. One small slip of the spoon, or whatever the heck they use, and theres too much fentanyl. Boom Overdose

Fentanyl is way more expensive and harder to get than heroin, your hypothesis is bullshit. ODs are happening because heroin is more pure and cheap. There is no incentive to cut it when the supply is high and junkies know the difference.

[huckbucket]

And for drugs, I think they should all be legal...I think. Do what you want to yourself...just don't drive or operate anything that will kill someone else.

Perhaps you missed the part of this thread where normal, healthy people get so addicted to H that they commit crimes to get more and eventually die from the addiction. I'm confident will and discipline go right out the door with opioids. Still think the user is the only one effected?

[mtngirl79]

The heroin clinics in Europe seem to clean the streets up pretty well.

[ScrewYou]

Fentanyl is way more expensive and harder to get than heroin, your hypothesis is bullshit. ODs are happening because heroin is more pure and cheap. There is no incentive to cut it when the supply is high and junkies know the difference.

It is not my hypothesis, I did not come up with it. I should have been more clear, "I think I read somwhere"

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...eroin-deadlier

Theres hundred and hundreds of sources on line, if you really think its a crock of bullshit lol. I mean its really all over the place if you type in heroin OD, youd have to be blind to miss it. Fentanyl is actually very easy for them to obtain, and using a little bit keeps their prices down instead of using a lot more heroin to get the same rush. Sneaky dealers.

[Jesse]

Here in Vancouver we've been having some fentanyl overdoses from heroine users who didn't know it was laced. Street users mostly, but a young professional (or student I can't remember) couple also died.

Not sure if it's cause it's cheaper? Maybe bigger kick per use?

I was taught in an addiction seminar that heroin is actually safer then many other 'strong' drugs because as long as someone calls for help you can easily be revived. While other od's are more likely to lead to deadly heart attacks. Clean needles and safe injection sites help too. Not that I'm advocating trying it, but there is a lot false information that is a part of the war on drugs. I personally wouldn't use it.

Fucking up your life is also a good possibility. However, I don't think any drug is this mythical one (few) time use and you're an addict. If it were the case all users would become dependant which isn't reality. Some people get hooked on drugs, others booze, yet others gambling or tv or whatever. There is more to addiction then the chemical used.

The one big exception is smoking meth (especially off aluminum foil). Don't do it. Some users develop drug induced schizophrenia from as little as one use (note, not all, but not worth the risk).

I'm for taking a four pillars approach: prevention, treatment, harm reduction, and finally policing - but only for large dealers/traffickers and violent offenders.

Also, as to OP, those pens are a stupid idea.

Edit: someone mentioned withdrawal earlier and they are correct about how bad it can be, but a heavy alcoholic has worse (even potentially deadly withdrawal) and society seems fine with booze.

I'm actually in favor of decriminalization of most drugs. I don't see much difference between pot, cigarettes, booze, the many legal (prescription opiates and other 'fun ' legal drugs), and others.

It seems to me like the more things you take out of the black market the better. Sell safe levels of doses (i.e. one beer, one hit, etc). There goes half or whatever the percentage of prison population, put that cost into prevention and treatment and we are probably better off as a whole. Tax it at a level that matches or exceeds medical costs. Seems like a win. Besides, it's not like the war on drugs removed them....can't be worse. ...

[Plainview]

The Rolling Stones were BIG fans of heroin and other than Brian Jones, who's death wasn't attributed to an OD, they're still kicking.

[Skidog]

No shit, you should have seen the scripts I racked up after a summer of surgeries. I filled one and took about 10 of the 30, I absolutely hate the shit and wish they could prescribe good weed. I easily could have had the doc prescribe 2x as many, they asked if I needed more at every follow up.

Same experience. I got a refill 2 days before a follow up from Dr assistant, and doc then asked if I needed more.

[MontuckyFried]

The Rolling Stones were BIG fans of heroin and other than Brian Jones, who's death wasn't attributed to an OD, they're still kicking.

So they were fans, huh? So was Layne Staley (Alice in Chains), Janis Joplin, Tommy Bolin (Deep Purple), Sid Vicious, Bon Scott (AC/DC), Phil Lynott (Thin Lizzy), Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon), Brad Nowell (Sublime), Dee Dee Ramone, and an absolute buttload of others from many of our favorite bands who weren't so lucky.

It's kind of like smoking in that we all know that anecdotal guy who's 90+ and been smoking like a chimney his whole life and is still alive and kicking, but that's just one idiot who beat the odds.

Kind of like meth, if you're crazy enough to shoot up, well then...you're kind of asking for it. Not smart. The weird thing is how so many (otherwise) genius, creative minds are drawn to hard drugs like that, though. I remember reading a study once about the correlation. But I guess just because you're gifted in one area, doesn't mean you can't be a total shmuck in another. And yes, delving into the world of hard core drugs IS idiotic at its core...and selfish, as its usually up to the family members/society/the government/everybody else to drag their sorry asses out of the gutter to help get them back on track, in which they often jump right back off the track in a heart beat. Heroin's one helluva drug. Even back in my party days, I for one, have never, ever been tempted to even go down that road. Blows my mind that teenagers are doing it these days. Back in all of our youths, seems that H was more the end of the road than the beginning. Sheesh!

[strawjack]

Perhaps you missed the part of this thread where normal, healthy people get so addicted to H that they commit crimes to get more and eventually die from the addiction. I'm confident will and discipline go right out the door with opioids. Still think the user is the only one effected?

Well, that is why I said, "I think". Meaning, I don't have enough knowledge on the subject. It would be difficult to be much worse than where we are currently. Safe clean drugs maybe? Pull the crime and profits out of it. Again, idk. This is obviously a complex issue and there will be many different points of view.

The heroin clinics in Europe seem to clean the streets up pretty well.

This is pretty much what I was going with, but it's not well known to me. Just a couple articles.

[From_the_NEK]

The following is just a bit of speculation on my part.
I wonder if the introduction of Narcan, the anti-overdose drug, has led to a demand for the fentanyl laced heroin? Think about it. Now, heroin users in search of a even higher high can run the risk of ODing because there is a way to reverse the affects of heroin and bring them back down if they push the edge too far. Dealers have responded to the demand for the stronger mix by releasing more fentanyl laced product into the drug stream. They couldn't do this before Narcan came out because they would have literally killed their market.

And heroin (and other hard drugs) are fucked up IMO. I've never had any desire to touch them and watching the stream of addicts go in and out of the local methadone clinic is enough to make me very glad I never have.

[Grape_Ape]

So they were fans, huh? So was Layne Staley (Alice in Chains), Janis Joplin, Tommy Bolin (Deep Purple), Sid Vicious, Bon Scott (AC/DC), Phil Lynott (Thin Lizzy), Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon), Brad Nowell (Sublime), Dee Dee Ramone, and an absolute buttload of others from many of our favorite bands who weren't so lucky.

I was a huge Blind Melon fan back in the day. Most underrated band ever, in my opinion. Alice in Chains rocked the hizzle. Wasn't Cobain an addict too?

[Skistack]

So they were fans, huh? So was Layne Staley (Alice in Chains), Janis Joplin, Tommy Bolin (Deep Purple), Sid Vicious, Bon Scott (AC/DC), Phil Lynott (Thin Lizzy), Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon), Brad Nowell (Sublime), Dee Dee Ramone, and an absolute buttload of others from many of our favorite bands who weren't so lucky.

The Needle and the Damage Done.

I think it was on Live at Massey Hall, NY talked about all the great musicians he knew that didn't live long enough to become famous.

[mtngirl79]

The following is just a bit of speculation on my part.
I wonder if the introduction of Narcan, the anti-overdose drug, has led to a demand for the fentanyl laced heroin? Think about it. Now, heroin users in search of a even higher high can run the risk of ODing because there is a way to reverse the affects of heroin and bring them back down if they push the edge too far. Dealers have responded to the demand for the stronger mix by releasing more fentanyl laced product into the drug stream. They couldn't do this before Narcan came out because they would have literally killed their market.

And heroin (and other hard drugs) are fucked up IMO. I've never had any desire to touch them and watching the stream of addicts go in and out of the local methadone clinic is enough to make me very glad I never have.

Oh, look. Rog is back.

[digitaldeath]

Heroin / oxy / et all are and have been for centuries a cash cow. The brits fought two wars to keep smuggling it from china - it has always made plenty of people rich b/c of the processing, esp on the big pharma end.

There has never been any interest in fixing the mj and mmj laws because it is a farrm to market item with only small business interests (for now) making any money. Wait until about 5 yrs from now when 75% of the people trying to kick heroin are doing it with mj, and it will have a lot better success rate than the jv team treatment (methadone).

eta - not that plenty of people haven't and will make fuck tons of cash, it is just that the ability to self produce is there. Nobody is growing their own poppy except for bagels.

Anyone who wants to see a bleak but great film about the drug wars should see sicario -

HSBC is a drug trafficking bank founded to process opium revenue from the far east


saw sicario last night, pretty dope look at state sponsored terrorism

[From_the_NEK]

Oh, look. Rog is back.

What does my speculation have to do with Rog?

[Timberridge]

Rog had been lacing heroin with fentanyl for years and selling the mixture in 120g bricks of Toko All-in-One from the EMS.

[GeezerSteve]

One of the great modern jazz albums, 'Trane's last great diatonic statement before he went modal. My favorite 'Trane takes of Naima are with Eric Dolphy on bass clarinet. As you likely know, 'Trane got clean the last few years of his life, then cancer got him in the end. I often wonder how jazz would have developed had he lived. He was pure genius, a true American Master.

[strawjack]

Right now it's all about the sex wax. Damn the waves are good over here. The ec'ers deserve it.

[muted]

When we moved to park city my kid went into the doc in a box for strep. Came out with a script of 30 lot tabs for a sore throat. A fucking sore throat. Reported the doc to DOPL.

Park City kids have a reputation for being druggies, that doctor is probably a teenagers best friend up there.