Getting Into Trail Running?

[hutash]

Shoe choice is personal and subjective. I'm currently in Hokas on trail and road because they are easier on my aging body, but I ran most of my ultras and thousands of trail miles in traditional trail shoes, e.g., Brooks Cascadia and PureGrit, Montrails, and finished at least 20 ultras and put in hundreds of trail miles in road running shoes.

Trail running noob should avoid worrying about gear. Just get out there in whatever running shoes you've got, shuffle the flats, walk the uphills and learn to run the downhills. Have fun. And be careful that you don't catch a toe and take a big ol' faceplant.

Maybe that's why your body is aging

I agree, the Hoka's just feel better on my old knees as well.

As for not tripping, that is good advice. I was running down from the top of White Mt (14,000+ ft) tripped and did a nice roll. I had road my mountain bike most f the way and ran the rest, so for some reason I thought I still had my helmet on and I thought to myself that was a good thing until I felt the blood running down my face. I finished the run, but everybody I saw looked at me aghast and started asking me question like I had a concussion.

Rather embarrassing all in all.

[Cruiser]

I switched over to Hoka Stinson ATR's recently for my trail runs (love my Brooks Glycerines for in-town road and easy trails though) and they really are tits for the downhill. They suck up rocks and bumps like they weren't even there. The thick cushion and wide platform are really confidence inspiring on descents.

That said, the durability seems kinda suspect. I only have about 50 miles on them and the soles are starting to look thrashed. Lots of little chunks missing and some little spots at the edges of the outsole are beginning to delaminate from the mid-sole. Anyone else had that issue? I mean, they're pretty freaking expensive and I would be a little surprised if they're still in serviceable shape in another 50 miles.

[Albeer]

Hoka not good sidehiller Altra better for me

[char]

Hoka is essentially going in the opposite direction as the minimalist movement? What's the thought process with Hoka?

I'm in need of some new shoes but was planning on getting another set of Cascadias.

Like many others , I wish I had listened to the run slow to go fast crowd earlier.

[sfotex]

Hoka is essentially going in the opposite direction as the minimalist movement? What's the thought process with Hoka?

I'm in need of some new shoes but was planning on getting another set of Cascadias.

I've been digging the lighter Hokas that have come out recently. I've put a lot of miles on the Huaka training and racing this summer and have loved it. I have the Challenger ATR, but it kills my feet (too narrow?) after an hour or so it's been relegated to shorter runs. I'm also 140lbs so YMMV....

[Dantheman]

That said, the durability seems kinda suspect. I only have about 50 miles on them and the soles are starting to look thrashed. Lots of little chunks missing and some little spots at the edges of the outsole are beginning to delaminate from the mid-sole. Anyone else had that issue? I mean, they're pretty freaking expensive and I would be a little surprised if they're still in serviceable shape in another 50 miles.

In my experience, lightweight trail shoes (La Sportiva Crosslite, NB MT101 and MT110, Altra Lone Peak, no personal experience with Hokas) are borderline disposable. Still, 50 miles is pretty bad for deterioration like that. Warranty?

[bean]

I have the Challenger ATR, but it kills my feet (too narrow?) after an hour or so it's been relegated to shorter runs.

Do you have hobbit feet? Challengers are buckets. If you think those are narrow stay away from the Speedgoat or Clifton 2.

[bean]

In my experience, lightweight trail shoes (La Sportiva Crosslite, NB MT101 and MT110, Altra Lone Peak, no personal experience with Hokas) are borderline disposable. Still, 50 miles is pretty bad for deterioration like that. Warranty?

I've never retired a pair of Hokas with less than 500 miles. Falling apart after 50 definitely sounds like a potential warranty concern.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I have a shoe question. The shoes that have worked best for me are Saucony Kinvaras. I think I've had 5-6 pairs of different version. I'll definitely keep buying more as they wear out, but I'm thinking of getting something a bit cushier as my longer runs are getting longer, and the Kinvaras become pretty firm after a little use. Also a doctor just told me I've got some arthritis in my lumber spine and left foot, so softening the load seems like a good idea.

The Kinvaras are listed as having a 4mm drop, but it feels like a bit more. I think 4-6mm drop works best for me, as do shoes with a snugger heel, but roomier mid and forefoot. I run on the road and on trails that are not rugged at all. Will run on some on snowy, icy paths and sidewalks in the winter.

Suggestions?

[GeezerSteve]

Hoka is essentially going in the opposite direction as the minimalist movement?

Yes and no. More cushioning but pretty low rise and foot is down in a cradle so they aren't any more tippy than, say, a Cascadia.

Yeah, Cruiser, Hokas don't hold up great. Sole chunks is a minor issue. Little holes forming in the upper a bigger issue. I hand stitch them and double the life of a pair of shoes, i.e., 500-700 miles and they are thoroughly trashed.

sfotex, Challenger is not a very substantial shoe. I save mine for race day, train on burlier Mafetes.

[bagtagley]

In my experience, lightweight trail shoes (La Sportiva Crosslite, NB MT101 and MT110, Altra Lone Peak, no personal experience with Hokas) are borderline disposable. Still, 50 miles is pretty bad for deterioration like that. Warranty?

Lone Peaks are tanks. Really dislike the things and weight is part of it. Sadly, I can't kill them. I paid retail because I wanted to support the new LRS that opened here. I'm a cheap bastard, so I feel obligated to use them. I have close to 500 miles on them and they still have some life left.

I typically run in Inov-8 Trailroc 235 and 245s. Love them. Whenever I go from the Trailrocs to the Altras, I feel like I'm running with ankle weights on.

@black diamonds, I don't know what to suggest, but can say that Kinvaras have the shortest lifespan of any shoe I've owned. I finally got wise and replaced them with Altra Instincts.

[sfotex]

sfotex, Challenger is not a very substantial shoe. I save mine for race day, train on burlier Mafetes.

Do you have hobbit feet? Challengers are buckets. If you think those are narrow stay away from the Speedgoat or Clifton 2.

Yeah, I can't figure it out. The Huaka looks as wide as the Challenger, but I've done 9 hours in the Huaka with no problems. I haven't raced in the Challenger b/c it hurts my left foot, so I relegated it to shorter runs vs. tossing it. My other go to shoe are the Pearl Izumi Trail N1 and LS Helios.

[Rico in Flag]

I don't see how you can be bored of mountain biking and think running is the answer...

Hear, hear.

RA, as an acquaintance or maybe friend, I've gotta speak up.

Don't do it man!
At least don't be one of those douchey nerdy fuckin runners we see so many of here in town. Don't be that guy with the too-short shorts with your dickhead hanging out. Don't be that intensely self absorbed runner that doesn't give a shit about anyone else in his quest for the maximum mileage.
Don't be that asshole, who I came face to face with in the only critically narrow part of Schultz tonight, who was so in the zone he actually elbows me to the outside and wouldn't give me just 6" mere inches so that we could pass each other. Zero trail manners. Fuck that guy.

Dude, do what you gotta do to find your passion for mtb riding.

[hutash]

Some people are just hard on shoes. My wife can trash a shoe in no time, and several hundred miles of mostly walking they are showing so wear. Mine mostly road, a little trail, are doing fine, hardly any wear. The uppers do seem a little weak overall.

As for increasing the cushion, if you have a shoe you really love, and shoes are like AT boots, some fit certain feet better the others, change the insole. My local cobbler does a lot of custom corrective work, and he sold me a great set of insoles with a little get under the ball, but thermo like foam in the rest. After a run or two they really form to your feet and are great, and last way, way longer then the crap stock insoles. You can heat the up with a hair dryer as well, a lot like boot liners. I don't remember the name, but can find out if anybody is interested. Costs me about $80.

[bean]

I have a shoe question. The shoes that have worked best for me are Saucony Kinvaras. I think I've had 5-6 pairs of different version. I'll definitely keep buying more as they wear out, but I'm thinking of getting something a bit cushier as my longer runs are getting longer, and the Kinvaras become pretty firm after a little use. Also a doctor just told me I've got some arthritis in my lumber spine and left foot, so softening the load seems like a good idea.

The Kinvaras are listed as having a 4mm drop, but it feels like a bit more. I think 4-6mm drop works best for me, as do shoes with a snugger heel, but roomier mid and forefoot. I run on the road and on trails that are not rugged at all. Will run on some on snowy, icy paths and sidewalks in the winter.

Suggestions?

Hoka Clifton 2 sounds like a road shoe that fits the bill, similar feel to the Kinvara, slightly heavier (the OG Clifton was within a couple grams of the Kinvara, 2 is heavier), same low drop, and like running on clouds. I'm ok in mild snow with them but can't speak to your comfort level on snow/ice, I sometimes just take old trail runners out for those days. Or put some hex head screws in the soles of an old pair of shoes for days you just have to get out.

[bean]

At least don't be one of those douchey nerdy fuckin runners we see so many of here in town. Don't be that guy with the too-short shorts with your dickhead hanging out. Don't be that intensely self absorbed runner that doesn't give a shit about anyone else in his quest for the maximum mileage.
Don't be that asshole, who I came face to face with in the only critically narrow part of Schultz tonight, who was so in the zone he actually elbows me to the outside and wouldn't give me just 6" mere inches so that we could pass each other. Zero trail manners. Fuck that guy.

Let's think about how the runner might have seen things. Some endurBro in bike pajamas was so focused on his flow he refused to yield the trail to a runner as required. You're going to have to completely stop and yield the trail on multi-use trails from time to time regardless of what you're doing out there, deal with it.

I run and bike, and see dicks in both user groups (shocker). Rule #1: Don't be an asshole. Sounds like you broke Rule #1.

[bagtagley]

Running is stupid, I'll be the first to admit that. However, trail runners as a whole are some of the most down to earth, helpful and accepting people I've had the pleasure of recreating with.

[Rico in Flag]

Let's think about how the runner might have seen things. Some endurBro in bike pajamas was so focused on his flow he refused to yield the trail to a runner as required. You're going to have to completely stop and yield the trail on multi-use trails from time to time regardless of what you're doing out there, deal with it.

I run and bike, and see dicks in both user groups (shocker). Rule #1: Don't be an asshole. Sounds like you broke Rule #1.

Take it easy there trail champ.
I know all about the trail yield triangle and am more than happy to yield. However: I do think trail yielding should be flexible considering trail circumstances when both parties recognize the problem. In last evenings case: I was creeping in granny gear up a short steep pitch with a blind corner, the trail is quite narrow, off camber on a slope with a 4' drop on the outside. Runner guy comes around blind corner, I'm 10' down the slope, he strides to the inside and literally throws an elbow forcing me to the outside, and would not give me a tiny bit of space to pass safely next to the outside drop off.
Did I break rule #1? I don't believe so. Was I an ass? No. Like I said, I think trail etiquette should be flexible.
Really in all the years, over a decade here, I've never had a bad trail experience with another user. All I'm saying was this guy last night was the most self absorbed runner I've ever passed on a trail.

However, trail runners as a whole are some of the most down to earth, helpful and accepting people I've had the pleasure of recreating with.

RA and I live in a town filled with uber athletes and pro runners, and even a high altitude training center. I think runner guy last night might have been one of them. Honestly I've never had a bad experience with any other runner. I'm really not butthurt about it, I didn't fall off the drop off, in fact I recovered and kept rolling. It's just the way runner guy went about the passing.

[bean]

I do think trail yielding should be flexible considering trail circumstances when both parties recognize the problem.

Definitely. IMO the yield triangle should be a guideline not a hard and fast rule.

In last evenings case: I was creeping in granny gear up a short steep pitch with a blind corner, the trail is quite narrow, off camber on a slope with a 4' drop on the outside. Runner guy comes around blind corner, I'm 10' down the slope, he strides to the inside and literally throws an elbow forcing me to the outside, and would not give me a tiny bit of space to pass safely next to the outside drop off.

That guy sounds like a dick. Especially if you were going uphill.

The vast majority of interactions I've had out on trails have been positive regardless of user group (with the exception of equestrians), shame there's dicks in every group giving everyone else a bad name.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Kinvaras have the shortest lifespan of any shoe I've owned.

I've found them plenty durable, but they become quite hard quite fast. I've been saving one pair only for longer runs. After about a hundred miles it's like running in true minimalist shoes, so it's time to try something new. As I approach 40 my body is demanding I take it a little easier on itself. The gel insole idea makes sense if that would extend the life. I'm seeing a podiatrist soon and will ask about options.

Hoka Clifton 2 sounds like a road shoe that fits the bill...

Thanks. I ordered some Clifton 2's, Huakas (a little roomier than the Cliftons?) and Saucony Cortanas, which are essentially a sturdier, softer Kinvara. Unfortunately people complain that they firm up pretty quickly as well. Will keep what works.

[raisingarizona13]

Did he yell strava as he elbowed you? I mean, if he was on his way to a new kom or whatever it's called you should feel honored he touched you. Just sayin.

[bagtagley]

I've found them plenty durable, but they become quite hard quite fast.

That's what I was referring to. I didn't mind that they got hard. My issue was that the foam rubber compressed significantly in higher impact areas. For me, that's the forefoot, and I started having weird issues pretty early on.

[sb]

Running is stupid, I'll be the first to admit that. However, trail runners as a whole are some of the most down to earth, helpful and accepting people I've had the pleasure of recreating with.

They don't to shit for trail maintenance in this area. At least they don't run down the middle of the fkn street like their douche bag brethern.

Some of the local TRs used to join us mtn bikers for Whiskey Wed and those were nice folks.

[leroy jenkins]

I only run up hills. I jog flats. I walk downhill. I think people that run downhill are stupid. I have a buddy I trail run with sometimes, he runs the flats and downhills and jogs the uphills. I walk downhill and sprint the uphills and I keep up with him just fine and he will tire and lose endurance before I will. I could never be a racer running like this, but for someone who just wants to enjoy running and go cool places while getting exercise and not beating up their body, I think running downhill is stupid. Also, interval training is good for you. Once you build the endurance and strength to do the interval training type of trail runs over slightly longer distances (10 miles or so) you will feel like a beast that has a reserve of explosive strength even when youre dog tired. Many trails will naturally pace and flow to accommodate this method with minimal time loss.

[Viva]

I walk downhill. I think people that run downhill are stupid.

Well, if ya haven't the legs for it...