Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

[frorider]

I don't post a lot but thought those that post in this thread and its lurkers might identify with or benefit from the interviewee's thoughts. An hour and two minutes of thoughts and experience of a divorce attorney.

I was hoping Mark would ask him about his view of ethical non-monogamy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5z8-9Op2nM

They misspelled ‘marriage’ in the video title text.

[TheSilverSurfer]

On the other side and damn glad to be.
Life is good again.

Thanks to those here that helped and shout out to those in the thick of it. Nothing is permanent and you will get through this.

[Mustonen]

On the other side and damn glad to be.
Life is good again.

Thanks to those here that helped and shout out to those in the thick of it. Nothing is permanent and you will get through this.

Congrats. Glad you made it to the other side.

It is striking how similar and predictable the arc of this experience is.

[Danno]

I'm a little envious of the Tammy thread people who didn't have kids. Because it's a clean break. My life is so much better now, but I still have to coparent and still have to deal with crazy WAY more than I'd like.

But my kid is awesome, and my girlfriend is awesome, so no regrets.

[TheSilverSurfer]

I'm a little envious of the Tammy thread people who didn't have kids. Because it's a clean break. My life is so much better now, but I still have to coparent and still have to deal with crazy WAY more than I'd like.

But my kid is awesome, and my girlfriend is awesome, so no regrets.

For sure. Just had to go through mediation cause my kid fell off his BMX and broke his leg. Ex claimed I was a dangerous parent. She wasted a bunch of money and looked like an idiot.

I've completely forgiven her and that makes it so much easier. No resentments or animosity and when she triggers me I let go of it immediately.

[Cono Este]

I'm a little envious of the Tammy thread people who didn't have kids. Because it's a clean break. My life is so much better now, but I still have to coparent and still have to deal with crazy WAY more than I'd like.

But my kid is awesome, and my girlfriend is awesome, so no regrets.

When your ex settles down with her next victim she won’t have time to bust both your chops.

[tgapp]

Hey I have a really simple divorce question that I need help with. I know there are a couple lawyer mags, could I mail one of you a bag of coffee for seriously a two minute question? Thanks in advance

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[PNWbrit]

Hey I have a really simple divorce question that I need help with. I know there are a couple lawyer mags, could I mail one of you a bag of coffee for seriously a two minute question? Thanks in advance

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Don't post a sex dungeon TR before your divorce is finalized?

[byates1]

Lol

[tgapp]

Don't post a sex dungeon TR before your divorce is finalized?

Lol no me and my STBXW are great friends, we're both collaborating actively on divorce together and don't have any kids. Not stressed about that, it's a question about the effective date of division of material assets where we both agree on the desired outcome but just need some help clarifying.

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[XXX-er]

IME its almost always best to get a seperation agreement in place ASAP in case something changes, usually its RE going up/down

which happened in my starter marriage, we had a signed agreement and i bought her side of the RE out but then it pretty much doubles in < a year so she tries to reneg to get more money but what goes up also can go down so by the time we get to court its back where it started for a net rise of 6%

[MiddleOfNight]

Lol no me and my STBXW are great friends, we're both collaborating actively on divorce together and don't have any kids. Not stressed about that, it's a question about the effective date of division of material assets where we both agree on the desired outcome but just need some help clarifying.

not a lawyer, but i gave one lotsa money.
mb not helpful - in CO the date of separation (your 'effective date') is listed on the petition when filed and accepted by the courts. if you both agree on what values to put in which fields of marital assets (as of that date) it should be real easy. the separation agreement detailed the breakdown of who got what (and what balance was to be paid) - but if you're on the same page and there are no debates, you could write it up with literally whatever you agreed on? nobody checked values or verified anything, both sides just had to sign off on it.
lawyers not required in CO - but peace of mind worth lawyering up - to know it was all done right and hopefully won't have traction if she wants backsies later. side note, my x emailed 6 months post finalization, asked for more - was happy to have the agreement lawyer-blessed by both mine and hers.

i agree w xxx, get it signed and sealed sooner than later, just in case she changes her mind on the values, or the agreements and decides, well whatever.

you're really lucky if yours goes that smoothly, sounds like it could. my thing wasn't contentious per se, but it was not anywhere near that easy.

good luck man.

[Danno]

lawyers not required in CO - but peace of mind worth lawyering up - to know it was all done right and hopefully won't have traction if she wants backsies later. side note, my x emailed 6 months post finalization, asked for more - was happy to have the agreement lawyer-blessed by both mine and hers.

i agree w xxx, get it signed and sealed sooner than later, just in case she changes her mind on the values, or the agreements and decides, well whatever.

FWIW, I don't think having the agreement "lawyer blessed" means anything, having it court blessed means everything. Which is not to say don't hire lawyers or do hire lawyers, that's a decision that is different for everyone. But when your ex asks for backsies, it doesn't matter that her lawyer blessed it or not as far as I understand, it only matters whether the court agrees with what she asks for. The only advantage to having her lawyer "bless" the agreement is taht when she asks her lawyer for advice on the backsies, the lawyer advises against it.

[MiddleOfNight]

FWIW, I don't think having the agreement "lawyer blessed" means anything, having it court blessed means everything. Which is not to say don't hire lawyers or do hire lawyers, that's a decision that is different for everyone. But when your ex asks for backsies, it doesn't matter that her lawyer blessed it or not as far as I understand, it only matters whether the court agrees with what she asks for. The only advantage to having her lawyer "bless" the agreement is taht when she asks her lawyer for advice on the backsies, the lawyer advises against it.

a fair point. the lawyers blessed/signed it, and then sent it to the court (judge) who blessed/signed/entered it.
i guess i was thinking if there were no lawyers it might be easier for someone to claim they were duped, or they didn't know, or were misled and confused or whatever.
and from my perspective, it was worth knowing there was someone looking out for me too - so I didn't get duped - cause what do i know.

[Danno]

i guess i was thinking if there were no lawyers it might be easier for someone to claim they were duped, or they didn't know, or were misled and confused or whatever.
and from my perspective, it was worth knowing there was someone looking out for me too - so I didn't get duped - cause what do i know.

There might be some truth to that, because a judge is going to ask "why are you asking for a change", "what is unfair" about the current agreement.

[XXX-er]

I had a legal seperation agreement with-in 2 weeks from seperation

If /when you get to court either side can still do all kinds of contesting depends on how much money you want to thro at lawyers but I think the main thing the judge will want to know if it gets to court (and we did) IS did both parties have legal advice (and we did) so did the lawyers look at that piece of paper we both signed and advise ?

She was saying she wasnt of sound mind when she signed a separation agreement so what the judge said more or less was " you both had advice and you claim your were not of sound mind but I have seen no evidence from medical professionals to that effect ... agreement stands divorce granted "

IME at about 6 months ( 2 marriages with 4 combined seperations) post separation she will have second thots cuz its harder on your own both emotionaly & money wise

[anotherVTskibum]

FWIW, I don't think having the agreement "lawyer blessed" means anything, having it court blessed means everything. Which is not to say don't hire lawyers or do hire lawyers, that's a decision that is different for everyone. But when your ex asks for backsies, it doesn't matter that her lawyer blessed it or not as far as I understand, it only matters whether the court agrees with what she asks for. The only advantage to having her lawyer "bless" the agreement is taht when she asks her lawyer for advice on the backsies, the lawyer advises against it.

Having it blessed by your lawyer hopefully means that you didn't leave something vague, subjective, or unspecified that will bite you in the ass later.

The time lag between separation and finalizing the divorce worked out in my favor, as my IRA value dropped substantially and the (unrealized) gain was treated as marital income. I'm not making any predictions as to future performance, but if there are any market-indexed assets involved with a percentage split, I'd expect a real chance of the actual amounts in question changing.

[MiddleOfNight]

Having it blessed by your lawyer hopefully means that you didn't leave something vague, subjective, or unspecified that will bite you in the ass later.

The time lag between separation and finalizing the divorce worked out in my favor, as my IRA value dropped substantially and the (unrealized) gain was treated as marital income. I'm not making any predictions as to future performance, but if there are any market-indexed assets involved with a percentage split, I'd expect a real chance of the actual amounts in question changing.

yeah, cross the t's and dot the lower case j's
if one side has an atty i would submit that the other should as well - atty's only obligation is to their client, so if you're doing something that will jam you they might not tell ya.

in my case, values were determined on date of separation listed on the petition for dissolution, of course months before we completed the agreement and finalization. i can see that one going either way.

IME at about 6 months ( 2 marriages with 4 combined seperations) post separation she will have second thots cuz its harder on your own both emotionaly & money wise

that's funny, it was almost exactly 6 months when she wanted to 'meet for coffee' and asked if i would consider modifying the terms.

There might be some truth to that, because a judge is going to ask "why are you asking for a change", "what is unfair" about the current agreement.

also, any petition for change (at least here) would go before the same judge that accepted/signed the original decree. so you'd be asking the judge to modify their own finalized order; one that they already deemed fair and equitable .. that was agreed upon and signed by 2 independent people and their respective council. that's gotta be a tough sell, absent some unique circumstances.

[XXX-er]

yeah we should call it " the 6 month rule "

The reason you are getting divorced is the same reason you are better to meet at G-mail than at starbucks, because you couldn't communicate so if you do it in print there is no doubt who said what to whom there is less feelings less interpersonal drama cuz they are just words on a screen and you have a record of what was said

Gf before last was plenty smart enough but she was a bit of a timid mouse, she had an ex-partner who thot he was " self actualized " and smarter than everybody ( not ) and his lawyer wasn't that good, so in conversation he would bowl her over with BS ( a pattern in the union ) and refused to settle so I told her not to talk to buddy in real time just send e-mails.

After that things went way better cuz she gets an e-mail she could study it and figure out all the angles or ask me what I thot something means we could brainstorm it and we usually beat him cuz 2 heads were > one, so what happened was he constantly shot himself in the foot and eventualy settled after about 4 yrs but he would have been smarter to geturdone quick

6 months is also about the amount of time your will feel better about being split but when you wait you are just using up life wallowing in a bad time so get it done sooner

[tgapp]

Okay, here's the sitch. It's not like I haven't aired my dirty laundry here in the past, and I need some advice/help figuring this out:

Our division of assets is very simple: we both have roughly the same amount in our retirement accounts (within $1k), she took the car and a few other high-dollar things, I took most of the coffee kit, some climbing stuff, etc. We both feel that our division of material assets is very fair/equitable.

We have two properties to our name - both with sub-3% interest rates, and what we want to happen is that we want to continue on both title and mortgage for each of them until rates go down (5% or under), but then when we refi, she'll keep the one house and I'll keep the other. We DO NOT want either of us to be removed from title until after the refi happens (whenever in the next ten years), since that would leave either of us in a position with liability and no asset. Do we just put something in the divorce agreement that stipulates that we will both remain on our respective titles unless & until we both refinance our respective properties?

[Supermoon]

Okay, here's the sitch. It's not like I haven't aired my dirty laundry here in the past, and I need some advice/help figuring this out:

Our division of assets is very simple: we both have roughly the same amount in our retirement accounts (within $1k), she took the car and a few other high-dollar things, I took most of the coffee kit, some climbing stuff, etc. We both feel that our division of material assets is very fair/equitable.

We have two properties to our name - both with sub-3% interest rates, and what we want to happen is that we want to continue on both title and mortgage for each of them until rates go down (5% or under), but then when we refi, she'll keep the one house and I'll keep the other. We DO NOT want either of us to be removed from title until after the refi happens (whenever in the next ten years), since that would leave either of us in a position with liability and no asset. Do we just put something in the divorce agreement that stipulates that we will both remain on our respective titles unless & until we both refinance our respective properties?

Not a lawyer and I did my divorce in Oregon, so take this with all the grains of salt, but we went in to a legal aid place to do our cooperative divorce paperwork, and the advisor there said it’s totally fine to write things out in clear language and not worry about legalese. If that’s the same for you, you could probably write out exactly that, with some more info about timing, what interest rate, who’s paying the costs, etc and it would be fine. We had something similar about our boat. At some point in time she would buy me out of it.

[AdironRider]

Okay, here's the sitch. It's not like I haven't aired my dirty laundry here in the past, and I need some advice/help figuring this out:

Our division of assets is very simple: we both have roughly the same amount in our retirement accounts (within $1k), she took the car and a few other high-dollar things, I took most of the coffee kit, some climbing stuff, etc. We both feel that our division of material assets is very fair/equitable.

We have two properties to our name - both with sub-3% interest rates, and what we want to happen is that we want to continue on both title and mortgage for each of them until rates go down (5% or under), but then when we refi, she'll keep the one house and I'll keep the other. We DO NOT want either of us to be removed from title until after the refi happens (whenever in the next ten years), since that would leave either of us in a position with liability and no asset. Do we just put something in the divorce agreement that stipulates that we will both remain on our respective titles unless & until we both refinance our respective properties?

I'm not divorced, but keeping tied up with your ex with two major real estate assets sounds like a terrible idea. Whatever money you think you are saving is not worth it.

[LHutz Esq]

In Canada you generally want to have lawyers look at the agreement - but you don't "need" to.

The courts have set a highish bar to modification of agreements. An agreement can be written by lay people and be very, very basic and be "fair enough" (Anderson v. Anderson 2023 SCC 13)

One of the factors the court looks at is if there was significant unfairness at the time of the original drafting. A factor that mitigates against a finding significant unfairness is if the parties each consulted a lawyer prior to signing.

[Art Shirk]

I’m kinda with Adiron here. Keeping running obligations is a recipe for disaster regardless of the status of your relationship. I’d take the interest rate hit now and refi individually when you can. If your ex decides to stop contributing on either, your fucked as the only way forward is for you to continue paying on both or sell, with proceeds still heading the ex’s way.

There’s little solace better than a clean split with settled and separate obligations.


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[tgapp]

I'm not divorced, but keeping tied up with your ex with two major real estate assets sounds like a terrible idea. Whatever money you think you are saving is not worth it.

Yeah, we get along incredibly well and refinancing right now would wreck her financially - she would lose her house and be priced out of SLC entirely. It's a fair assessment, but we both understand the risks associated here and agree that this is best for the time being.

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