Armada JJ length question

[tanoleg]

Hello,

I know it is summer.... but
Here is my question if anyone could point me to the right direction...
I am male, 42 years old, 200+ lb, 6' , advanced skier. I am able to ski everything (no crazy drops or jumps). Lately I had seen a Armada JJ ski, which I've heard, is easy to ski when we have some fresh snow (more than a foot); however, I am not sure which length to choose (nobody offers a demo, which I know, around Lake Tahoe). My everyday ski is bones 180 and I thought may be JJ would make an easy ski addition, the question is, 185 or 193.
185 would be most logical choice, however, when I've seen it in the store, they (ski) look short (almost like my height); Is AK JJ would be too long (I am planning to use them for tree skiing as well)?
thank you for answers

[2FUNKY]

195 as they are stupid easy to ski. Granted I only spun a couple laps on them but there was no learning curve and just silly easy. They felt super short due to the mad rocker in the tips and tails. Fun ski though. I am similar weight to you. Pretty sure others will chime in who have way more time on them than me.

[tanoleg]

Had seen a YouTube video, where JP said that he was spending some time on 185; I am no near JP abilities (but I am heavier and taller), but I think 185 will do

[CaliBrit]

Get the fuck to tech talk.

[CaliBrit]

And buy a 157 you gaperous bastard.

[galibier_numero_un]

You're in Tahoe and you're not checking out Praxis?

... Thom

[tanoleg]

Sorry,
I'll try to move it to Tech, my mistake.
Btw, 157 probably works great for the person who suggested it, but won't work for me, thank you

P.S. Maybe admit could help me move this thread to Tech?

[tanoleg]

About Praxis or Moment, both companies are based at Tahoe area (Moment is in Reno, about 40 min away), but have 0 representations in any known to me resorts, so no demo either

[Shredhead]

193

[galibier_numero_un]

About Praxis or Moment, both companies are based at Tahoe area (Moment is in Reno, about 40 min away), but have 0 representations in any known to me resorts, so no demo either

I inferred from a conversation with Keith that locals could demo, but i may be wrong about this. I was debating between a Concept and a GPO, and Keith commented to me that I could very well prefer the Concept, but he wouldn't recommend it without a demo - that the GPO was the "safe" choice.

There are so many good choices these days, and you can't go wrong, but with your being local to Reno/Tahoe, I'd use this to my advantage (Moment/Praxis).

I've been thrilled in my dealings with Keith, and my GPOs (having arrived last week) are waiting on a decision about which bindings to mount. Salomon Wardens are in the lead at the moment, although I'm tempted to wait for this Fall's release of the Marker Kingpin.

Cheers,
Thom

[XXX-er]

I don't know anything about those other skis but at 160 lbs I find the 185 JJ is very easy to ski, the turning radius is only like 15M so at 200lbs i would say you would be fine on the longer length, the real question you might wana ask yerslef is do you like the 5 point design, I would suspect you don't actualy know what that is??

JJ has been around for awhile, mine are 4-5 yrs old and they are now rock/touring boards I now have some old FR+ bindings

The cooler bro's will slag the JJ because it is no longer core enough but the JJ is a good ski

between the JJ/VJJ/AK JJ it is the most popular model of ski by far at the local ski hill

[tanoleg]

point taken, I honestly have no idea what is 5-point design. I had not have any ski with 5-points. What I understand, is that 5-points are the longer ski with shorter turning radius. For me, 5-point is probably not a deal breaker, I just want an easy fat ski which I could use on powder day (more than a foot of fresh) and day after. My bonafides are good, but with anything more than 6', they are sinking (may be longer bones would solve this issue). So, it seems like Armada JJ are good beginners powder ski.

[XXX-er]

So the 5 point design
http://armadaskis.com/products/skis/mens/ai-jj-2-0/
Instead of 3 dimensions (tip/waist/tail) you usually see in a ski spec the 5 point design has 5 spec's quoted (tip/contact point/waist/contact point/ tail) the tip & tail turn up from the contact point more or less

[Beery]

Praxis and moment don't have the Master of Puppets top sheet.

[tanoleg]

Nope,
But some people don't know who Metallica is, or tops will be covered by snow....

[XXX-er]

Whats in a graphic? I got the JJ's with the neon skeleton from about 5 yrs ago, a woman aqaintence looks at them on the chair and exclaims " those skis are perverse !" 4 yrs later her hubby the MD buys a set of the stupidly expensive RP112's in Lamborghini yellow which have pretty much the same 5 point Dimensions as the JJ but those are OK ... so now I say the JJ's have perverse sidecut

there should be assloads of used JJ's around for cheap

[MRR11]

Haven't spent time on the JJs, but owned a very similar ski -- nearly identical -- in the Bluehouse Maestro in the 189 length. An older version when it still had camber underfoot. I'm both shorter and lighter than you, and found the 189 to be more than manageable in fresh snow, if not downright easy, even in tight trees, and fun even for shorter radius turns -- mostly due to the generous rocker combined with the early taper (aka 5-point).

Maybe another point of reference would be your 180 Bones and how comfortable you are with that length, as I have a pair of 180 Kabookies and find them to ski annoyingly short for me. I would think at your size and skill level, you'd find the 185 JJs to ski short, but then again I would also think at your size and skill level you may be better off on the 187 Bones. All relative.

Note that if you jump to the 195s, I'm pretty sure you need to go with the AK JJs, which are not only longer but also are a bit wider underfoot and slightly stiffer. And since the whole 2.0 thing, I think they reduced somewhat the early rise and taper, making it a slightly less easy ski -- although I would imagine still quite easy to get a handle of.

[whyturn]

185 was too short for me at similar stats but lighter. I would say 195 or do it right first time and buy 186 billy goat from ON3P close out

[tanoleg]

187 bones are better in some cases, I've tried it (demo) but after I got mine in 180 and drilled it. I'm too lazy to sell them and 180 are not horrible short, so not a big deal, but I don't want to get my next ski too short or too long - a dilemma.
In ideal world, i would be able to try Armada AK/JJ and GPO or/and BG on the same slopes at the same conditions, but that never going to be happening, the resort where I ski don't offer any for a demo (that is why I am here, bugging people). So, I would probably find a shop which has demo and rent from them; $70+ per day probably I won't be demoing a lot of choices.
At this point, AK JJ, will see if I like or not, and I won't be trying reg JJ.

P.S. If I see BG on close-out in 186, I would probably take it with no demo(I've read a lot of good things about it)

[auvgeek]

Consider these instead: http://www.praxisskis.com/products/194-ullr-2014.html

The JJ is pretty meh. I own Billy Goats and have skied the GPO. GPO would also be a good option, but the Ullr for cheap should do ya just fine.

[XXX-er]

way cheaper to just buy something now in the off season used/depreciated and if you don't like it ...sell

[2FUNKY]

^No shit, like 1000 Oaks G3 Highballs he has in gear swap, sick deal for what looks like a great ski.

[swissiphic]

I'm 5"9' about 170 pounds and have owned and skied the 185 for about 3 seasons in pretty much any and all snow conditions inbounds and backcountry primarily. Tried the 195 A.K. JJ twice heliskiing in a smoragasbord of backcountry variable conditions including upside down bottomless pow. All observations made while skiing in Dynafit Mercury boots with and without the tongue installed. Results may vary with stiffer downhill boots.....

185 JJ original version: Pros: Excellent, easy turning, smeary ski that pivots on a dime in tight trees and technical terrain in good snow. Likes a medium radius turn in open alpine in forgiving snow. I had rental bindings on mine and played with the boot center quite a bit. Preferred -2.5 for more relaxed turn initiation and longer radius turns and it helped with tip planing at slower speeds in pow in stock ski configuration..but...the reduction in tail resulted in more wheeleying out while charging pillow lines in deep snow...so, the solution, which is now my go-to for optimal balance of easy pivoting stock performance combined with much better high speed charging potential and float for pow and breakable crust conditions, is an installation of home made 7cm tip extenders. With the extenders installed, the speed limit for all conditions is cranked way up and I can lean on the tongues of my boots and charge pretty hard. Inbounds, they're not the best hard groomer or variable snow ski for secure feeling aggressive skiing, but I really enjoy them for carving soft groomers and softer low density tracked out terrain where a guy can be lazy and lets the tails slide and smear without grabbing or deflecting.

Cons: In good, right side up pow, the JJ skis well and is super fun. In deeper bottomless pow or upside down pow, they exhibit tip dive, sometimes quite dramatically. In variable crusts and punchy snow, the tips are hooky and can get deflected down the fall line. Dramatically rockered tail results in wheelies while charging aggressive terrain, worse with binding mounted behind the line but still apparent on the line.

Dramatically detuning and base edge bevelling the rockered edge sections of the tips and less so the tails perceptively helped ease the tendency to hook.

JJ 2.0: Feedback from guys skiing the 2.0 JJ 185: more stable in variable snow conditions and exhibits less tip dive than the o.g. version while retaining the playful characteristics that make the JJ pretty fun. I'd go 2.0 if I were buying a new JJ.

AK JJ 195 original version: Was hoping that the longer length would solve some of the issues with the regular JJ but unfortunately, the tip dive experienced was apparent skiing the AK's in upside down bottomless pow...moving the binding waaaaaay back, like 3cms did not dramatically improve the situation...cranking up the speed did a bit, but I felt the ski was unbalanced and didn't feel 'right' compared to others I've skied in the past. It felt like the rear of the ski wasn't playing nice with the front...weird. In crusty snow, the tip would wander, hook and deflect...and frankly, could not find a sweet spot on the ski no matter where i moved the binding and how i weighted the turns. Aggressive detuning didn't change the feeling much...

Perhaps the 2.0 version fixes some of the issues I felt with the o.g. AK.?

[XXX-er]

IME with the 5point JJ and the DPS rp112 they "only" have 450mm of early rise and they will sub out

but the pintail lotus 120 has 600mm of early ... the lotus never sub out

[swissiphic]

IME with the 5point JJ and the DPS rp112 they "only" have 450mm of early rise and they will sub out

but the pintail lotus 120 has 600mm of early ... the lotus never sub out

IMO i don't think it's as simple as that....lots of old school powder skis like my skinny old school 190 volant chubbs that even with the slightest custom on hill permanently bend the camber flat and crank a hair of early rise in the tip floated better than a lot of skis i've had over the years. I think with five point design the achillies heel are shapes like the JJ 1.0 where the taper from the tip is too long, with the widest point of the ski's sidecut too set back...either on or very close to the contact point of camber...push that contact point a bit further forward and elongate the widest point (rossi s7 has this a bit) where the early rise is RISING and reduce the taper for mo betta float in general and low speed planing; I think also tweaking flex of the mid/rear of the ski on the jj would help as well...perhaps rounding out the flex pattern so the ski bends a bit more underfoot to allow the forbody to plane instead of relying on the softer shovel/tip to do the trick; hard to experiment with this...it's easier to make a ski stiffer with strips of aluminum glued onto topsheet than make a ski soft. ...or, install a wide tip extender and forget about it....