Patagonia. I will continue to buy their stuff...

[bigasshair]

I guess in that case I'm also a "warranty abuser" who will continue to buy their gear.
I've had many different products that haven't met my expectations of performance or longevity and played the warranty card.
The expense of investing in a Gore-Tex shell or Pro Model ski which lasts less than a 100 days is essentially voting with your dollars for a substandard candidate.
As many have previously posted, some companies sell most of their product to urban users vs. a small percentage to the "warranty abusers or genuine mags."
Customer retention is much easier with a decent/fair warranty department and customer service program.
Patagonia's Ironclad Warranty is the only one which allows me to have faith in their company and its products.
Patagonia is a leader in a responsible, sustainable business model and corporate goodwill the likes of which many companies would benefit from adopting.

[54-46]

Must be out of the trend loop - just heard about "lumbersexuals." See: http://gearjunkie.com/the-rise-of-the-lumbersexual

Bet Pata is a leader in lumbersexual clothing: http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/...hirt?p=53947-0

That said, I get their outerwear on sale and it works well. Love the warranty - had a zipper in a jacket fail and they sent me a new one pronto.

[ulty_guy]

Shit...

Selling all Patagonia gear and boycotting brand due to previously undisclosed grown men playing with Frisbees.

After traveling the world to chase plastic saucers and coming away with multiple injuries, I'd almost have to agree with you ;-)

Edit dam text thingy

[bigasshair]

54-46, Thanks for the sociological update, too funny.

[iamchappy]

I usually buy what i like and have researched, i've always liked my Patagonia stuff, i still use a fleece pull over that i purchased back in the early 80's.
I never seem to have to pay retail, always able to find buys, i am watching some Alpine mixed guide pants at TJ Maxx on clearance, currently marked at 129.00
i'll buy them next week when the mark them down further to 79.00 on final clearance.

I've never sent anything back for repair so they must be doing something right. Good to know if i ever do.

[strawjack]

I do not like hoppy beer

That is good for the rest of us.

I had no idea this place had so many warranty abusers.

spook da kook

I never seem to have to pay retail, always able to find buys, i am watching some Alpine mixed guide pants at TJ Maxx on clearance, currently marked at 129.00
i'll buy them next week when the mark them down further to 79.00 on final clearance.

That type of stuff lasts about 5 minutes at our tj maxx's.

[looseofforangejuice]

To me the quality is on par with any other top notch outerwear. When you add in the warranty policies and environmental practices of the company, that's when it becomes my go-to choice. That said, I cannot afford to pay their full retail prices so always shop for sales. But I shop for sales on everything anyway.

Regarding the warranty and potential abuses, it's a complicated mix. Yes warranty returns inflate prices, forcing you to think of purchases of their gear as being "for life." But wouldn't it be better if that's how manufacturing started to work again, rather than this planned obsolescence bullshit? Modern marketing and consumerism have engendered short-term, highly price-conscious thinking. It's hard to think about how paying more now will ultimately save you money in the long run.

As an aside, they also do dumb shit with their returns/warranty. I returned a NWT factory second UL down for a fit issue and they gave me a $300 credit when the tags clearly showed selling price was only $100. I love the high ground but not so much that I'll send $200 back...

[iamchappy]

That is good for the rest of us.


spook da kook


That type of stuff lasts about 5 minutes at our tj maxx's.

You have to be there at the right time, i buy a lot of Cloudveil at TJ and Marshalls, a few weeks ago i picked up a Koven shell at TJ for 58.00 when i was Christmas shopping, the store gal said they just put them out, i really didn't need
another shell, but i couldn't pass up the bargain. The rest were gone went i went back a few days later.

[strawjack]

Regarding the warranty and potential abuses, it's a complicated mix. Yes warranty returns inflate prices, forcing you to think of purchases of their gear as being "for life." But wouldn't it be better if that's how manufacturing started to work again, rather than this planned obsolescence bullshit? Modern marketing and consumerism have engendered short-term, highly price-conscious thinking. It's hard to think about how paying more now will ultimately save you money in the long run.

did I see this posted somewhere here on tgr...

[concretejungle]

To me the quality is on par with any other top notch outerwear. When you add in the warranty policies and environmental practices of the company, that's when it becomes my go-to choice. That said, I cannot afford to pay their full retail prices so always shop for sales. But I shop for sales on everything anyway.

Regarding the warranty and potential abuses, it's a complicated mix. Yes warranty returns inflate prices, forcing you to think of purchases of their gear as being "for life." But wouldn't it be better if that's how manufacturing started to work again, rather than this planned obsolescence bullshit? Modern marketing and consumerism have engendered short-term, highly price-conscious thinking. It's hard to think about how paying more now will ultimately save you money in the long run.

As an aside, they also do dumb shit with their returns/warranty. I returned a NWT factory second UL down for a fit issue and they gave me a $300 credit when the tags clearly showed selling price was only $100. I love the high ground but not so much that I'll send $200 back...

You understand the "for life" portion refers to the life of the garment not your life, correct?

[char]

I got 6 years out of a $125 Patagonia shell I wore pretty much every day for half the year. (So, ~500 days? I don't know. Alot. Skiing, hiking, fishing, around town, etc lived in a pack the rest of the year.))

In the end the membrane delamed from the shell face fabric. I could have warrantied it because I know Patagonia would. Instead, I bought another. I recently paid out of my own pocket to fix the zipper ($5). Not a big deal, most zipper issues can be fixed by a local seamstress in 5 minutes and was less hassle than mailing it out to OR and have it repaired.

It's a grey area and I've certainly used warranties when there is a manufacturing flaw, but I try to be realistic about the amount of abuse I've put a product through. I'm also not dropping $500 on a jacket just for skiing and another expensive jacket just for fishing, etc, so maybe my opinion would change if I had that much invested.

Ultimately when people abuse warranties the companies will just change the warranty: See REI.

[mfa81]

Ultimately when people abuse warranties the companies will just change the warranty: See REI.

warranty/return abusers are the reason behind the current bellow average bc warranty right now! rei is still pretty good compared to bc shitty warranty these days!

too bad there are people still thinking a broken zipper 10 years down the road is reason for a brand new piece or a fat gift card!

[LightRanger]

I've sent Primo Pants (OG XCR version) to PG warranty for cut/hole repairs twice now. Each time I note that I'm sending it to them because they know best how to repair their own garments but that I'm happy to pay for the repair. I think they may have charged me $20 the first time IIRC. Second time was free. Or both were free.

Regardless, I love their CS.

[hutash]

Interestingly patigucci seems to be doing a lot more repairs and not as much replacement as they used to. They have been advertizing the importance of repairing items when ever possible. Same philosophy that Yvon has always had about getting the full life out of an item, and not just replacing it too have the latest greatest item. I recently had a zipper blow out on a relatively new pair of simple guide pants (a real warranty issue), in the past they would have just handed me a new pair, but this time they actually sent them in for repair.

It is one thing to use a warranty as advertized, verses abusing a warranty like buying used shit on ebay then taking it to REI to get replaced. Patigucci warrants the item for the normal life expectancy of the garment, so I have no problem having them fix a blown zipper on a year old pair of pants. I didn't expect them to replace an 18 year old jacket, I just wanted, and expected to pay for a repair. They gave me a new jacket which I never asked for nor expected.

[mfa81]

does patagucci have a geartrade kind place where they sell returns?

[looseofforangejuice]

You understand the "for life" portion refers to the life of the garment not your life, correct?

I don't know if the "lifetime" part of "lifetime warranty" has ever been exactly defined. I personally don't take it to mean the rest of my life, no.

[looseofforangejuice]

does patagucci have a geartrade kind place where they sell returns?

Supposedly they are rolling one soon or have just started doing so...but I think only in their retail stores not online.

So I guess not akin to geartrade after all, more like a second hand store.

[looseofforangejuice]

Interestingly patigucci seems to be doing a lot more repairs and not as much replacement as they used to. They have been advertizing the importance of repairing items when ever possible. Same philosophy that Yvon has always had about getting the full life out of an item, and not just replacing it too have the latest greatest item. I recently had a zipper blow out on a relatively new pair of simple guide pants (a real warranty issue), in the past they would have just handed me a new pair, but this time they actually sent them in for repair.

It is one thing to use a warranty as advertized, verses abusing a warranty like buying used shit on ebay then taking it to REI to get replaced. Patigucci warrants the item for the normal life expectancy of the garment, so I have no problem having them fix a blown zipper on a year old pair of pants. I didn't expect them to replace an 18 year old jacket, I just wanted, and expected to pay for a repair. They gave me a new jacket which I never asked for nor expected.

Patagonia has also partnered with iFixit (seller of tons of repair parts for phones, computers, etc. as well as publisher of free repair guides) to provide step by step guides for gear repairs, as well as materials. So rather than sending it to them to fix and pay $20 or whatever, you can do it yourself (at least for some basic repairs).

Perhaps their in house repair is a bit of a money loser so this would actually save them money, idk, but what kind of company does this? "Don't buy new stuff, or even pay to send it to us for repairs, instead fix it yourself."

[Tye 1on]

does patagucci have a geartrade kind place where they sell returns?

not sure about returns but they have teamed up with ebay for used gear sales here

[coldfeet]

I wonder what the cost of warranty / repairs is as a percentage of Patagonia's expenses. I would guess that most clothing doesn't get used very hard - as with a lot of things, there's usually a small number of heavy users and a lot of light users. So I'd guess that there's some fraction of stuff that happens to break under light use (legit warranty repairs in anyone's book) and a small number of heavy users who actually wear softgoods to the point of repair or replacement.

The bulletproof warranty policy is part of their sales positioning, it emphasizes their reputation for quality construction even to the light users. It's a little different in the case of an REI or BC return policy since those are returns not warranties (and not brand-specific) and seem more vulnerable to excessive returns.

[kootenayskier]

I wonder what the cost of warranty / repairs is as a percentage of Patagonia's expenses. I would guess that most clothing doesn't get used very hard - as with a lot of things, there's usually a small number of heavy users and a lot of light users. So I'd guess that there's some fraction of stuff that happens to break under light use (legit warranty repairs in anyone's book) and a small number of heavy users who actually wear softgoods to the point of repair or replacement.

The bulletproof warranty policy is part of their sales positioning, it emphasizes their reputation for quality construction even to the light users. It's a little different in the case of an REI or BC return policy since those are returns not warranties (and not brand-specific) and seem more vulnerable to excessive returns.

My brother worked for Patagonia for years, and like with any similar organization, return rates are something that is closely monitored. As long as they're below a certain threshold (it's been a while, but I recall they were something like <2%) it's not a concern, and is considered part of cultivating the brand's reputation and customer loyalty. There are innumerable casual users for every gear abusing skiing/climbing bum, and keeping this small demographic happy creates de-facto brand ambassadors. It also seems that if we're initially treated unreasonably well, we often mellow into loyal long-term customers. It's irrational and sort of pathetic, but attaching to brands as an expression of our self-image is somehow psychologically satisfying, and Patagonia cultivate this better than most. As they're finding out, corporate retailers aren't the beneficiaries of this brand loyalty (somebody must study and understand this) and often get treated with a uncompromising mercenary attitude.

[strawjack]

My brother worked for Patagonia for years, and like with any similar organization, return rates are something that is closely monitored. As long as they're below a certain threshold (it's been a while, but I recall they were something like <2%) it's not a concern, and is considered part of cultivating the brand's reputation and customer loyalty. There are innumerable casual users for every gear abusing skiing/climbing bum, and keeping this small demographic happy creates de-facto brand ambassadors. It also seems that if we're initially treated unreasonably well, we often mellow into loyal long-term customers. It's irrational and sort of pathetic, but attaching to brands as an expression of our self-image is somehow psychologically satisfying, and Patagonia cultivate this better than most. As they're finding out, corporate retailers aren't the beneficiaries of this brand loyalty (somebody must study and understand this) and often get treated with a uncompromising mercenary attitude.

What are you trying to say? Because a company treats their customers fairly it's pathetic to buy from them again? And corporate retailers...who is that?...any incorporated company selling pata? gets screwed over by this policy?

My friend sells it in his shop and he can't give enough praise about doing business with them.

[kootenayskier]

What are you trying to say? Because a company treats their customers fairly it's pathetic to buy from them again? And corporate retailers...who is that?...any incorporated company selling pata? gets screwed over by this policy?

My friend sells it in his shop and he can't give enough praise about doing business with them.

I'm as big a Patagonia fan-boy as anyone. I'm just observing our propensity to latch onto brands as an expression of our self image, that companies know and cultivate this in a calculated fashion, and that large corporate retailers (not the local ones with which we can develop personal relationships) don't seem to benefit from this.

[undertow2]

I have been a huge Patagucci fan for a while and have a ton of their stuff... I was skiing with a very close friend of mine through a small tree run and the short of it he ended up falling on a covered stomp with him being gorded by a large branch... He was sent to the hospital where he had to endure a fairly significant surgery... Once everything settled down he realized he had a fairly significant hole through his Primo Down jacket... He went to our local ski shop where he bought to see if It could be sent to Patagonia to be prepared... The shop called the local rep and as soon as they shared his story they instantly gave him an in-store credit for a new Primo Down...

As long as Patagonia keeps their same philosophy and keeps making the products they do they will have a customer for life... And oh yeah just picked up a brand new Untracked coat from their store in CA during their sale for $150 shipped... Can't beat that...

[mfa81]

The shop called the local rep and as soon as they shared his story they instantly gave him an in-store credit for a new Primo Down...

As long as Patagonia keeps their same philosophy and keeps making the products they do they will have a customer for life...

that's how they make money by losing some! The chance for your friend or you to need another full replacement is much less likely than you both buying a ton of new stuff for yourselves and relatives as well as suggesting patagucci to others! It's a great strategy and works well for all that do that!

and this is indeed much less likely to be abused than lifetime returns we used to see from bc or rei in my opinion