Fuel Prices.

[whipski]

39.34 mpg in my 95 Corolla with 2 pairs skis in the cartop rack on my road trip to Taos. It'll be good when the lifts stop and i switch out the studded snows for all seasons and take off the rack. 70K original miles.

[DougW]

But the SPR is still small compared to the overall oil demand in the world. The price of oil is determined by the world price unless you want to decouple that which is hard as the US is a big exporter of refined products. How popular would it be if WTI was $15 higher than Brent?

There is already the control of supply and demand in the oil market its called OPEC. Doesn't always work and in 2015 worked against that stability by crushing the US suppliers.

[Core Shot]

My name’s core shot. My particular ICE vehicles will last forever.

Maybe not forever. Just my expiration.

The radio news was just talking about a bill mandating all new construction and significant rehabs be all electric.
Where the Fuck does all this electricity come from?

My opinion would be different if we could have more nuke plants.

[mcphee]

Where the Fuck does all this electricity come from?

My opinion would be different if we could have more nuke plants.

1.) electricity generated from coal and natural gas is still greener than burning gasoline in an ICE, but you know this.

b.) oil companies fund a massive amount of anti nuclear energy propaganda and campaigns, which you also know

[DougW]

interesting graph

[jono]

But the SPR is still small compared to the overall oil demand in the world. The price of oil is determined by the world price unless you want to decouple that which is hard as the US is a big exporter of refined products. How popular would it be if WTI was $15 higher than Brent?

There is already the control of supply and demand in the oil market its called OPEC. Doesn't always work and in 2015 worked against that stability by crushing the US suppliers.

OPEC influences supply, they do not influence demand. We influence demand, if we decide to sack up and do more than "paying more." Paying more is easy. Not buying is hard.

The SPR is only capable of decoupling US prices in the short term; it's transient. But the transient spikes (both up and down) are interfering with long term goals and in the process reinforcing the long term problems, so it's worth damping those out.

[nickwm21]

Attachment 409453

I have no car loans. Gonna burn Dino

Personal vehicle use is only 60% of the pie.

It might be unreasonable for most to adjust their commute or buy a new vehicle… (myself included)

But. It could be easier to make a dent in other ways:
- eat more stuff that was grown or raised locally
- avoid single use plastic
- buy used in lieu of new
Etc…


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[DougW]

OPEC influences supply, they do not influence demand. We influence demand, if we decide to sack up and do more than "paying more." Paying more is easy. Not buying is hard.

The SPR is only capable of decoupling US prices in the short term; it's transient. But the transient spikes (both up and down) are interfering with long term goals and in the process reinforcing the long term problems, so it's worth damping those out.

Then the easy way to do that is have a sliding scale carbon tax. When oil prices are low the tax automatically goes up to create a base for crude of $50-$60 for WTI. The producers gets whatever the market is but the refiner pays a min of $55. But is that going to happen in the US? Its somewhat working like that in Alberta right now to take the sting out of gas prices but only AB can live without that tax revenue right now ( plus election coming up).

But on the demand side the US used to dictate demand. The US had a recession oil demand went down so price dropped and helped US out of downturn. Now the US is a big factor in world demand but not only. And OPEC does when its working right try to control supply to control price in a tighter range. Its hard to say whether its able to do so now as it doesn't seem to be able to really increase supply that much. Lots of members have more quota than they are filling. Its usually the case that some are cheating.

[jono]

This is probably not clear when crossing the border, but by "we" I meant all of us humans that buy oil.

[evdog]

Personal vehicle use is only 60% of the pie.

It might be unreasonable for most to adjust their commute or buy a new vehicle… (myself included)

But. It could be easier to make a dent in other ways:
- eat more stuff that was grown or raised locally
- avoid single use plastic
- buy used in lieu of new
Etc…

Not that hard to do something. I remember when gas hit $5/gal here in Socal back in 2008 the freeways emptied considerably. People actually carpooled, and planned trips to include multiple stops rather than do separate trips. It was very noticeable. Doesn't seem to be happening this time around.

I started riding my bike to work at least one day a week and would ride my moto another day or two.

Changing consumer habits might be a bridge too far for most with respect to gas prices but you can always hope. Convincing producers to reduce plastic used in packaging reduced oil consumption by default. Judging by the number of flats of water bottles people buy at Costco the average consumer isn't well invented to make good decisions on their own 🙂

[DougW]

This is probably not clear when crossing the border, but by "we" I meant all of us humans that buy oil.

Ok but the idea of a carbon tax when prices are low in US does seem like a non starter. In Canada while not exactly popular everyone is pretty used to the concept of pretty high taxes on gas, sales , transit, carbon. Might even be more positive if it was variable?

[Dee Hubbs]

Anyone running E85?
My new Audi can take E85, but no gas stations sell it up in the mountains in CO.
I’ve found a few location on the way to Denver, I’m going to give it a try next trip to Denver.

[Zhem]

Anyone running E85?
My new Audi can take E85, but no gas stations sell it up in the mountains in CO.
I’ve found a few location on the way to Denver, I’m going to give it a try next trip to Denver.

Have had a couple of vehicles that can take it in the past and my wife’s Jeep can as well. When we have used it we notice fuel economy dropped off by a pretty big chunk, guessing 20-25 percent. Not sure if the cost savings cover the loss of fuel economy….never worked it out on paper….but might give it a go again since gas is about $5.50 locally.


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[LongShortLong]

Changing consumer habits might be a bridge too far for most with respect to gas prices but you can always hope. Convincing producers to reduce plastic used in packaging reduced oil consumption by default. Judging by the number of flats of water bottles people buy at Costco the average consumer isn't well invented to make good decisions on their own ��

The greenies like to say that, but I believe it's a false religion not founded in science. Got numbers? My guess is less plastic means heavier goods, means more fuel burned to transport those goods (and higher production costs and more spoilage, etc). Manufacturers switched to plastic because it was cheaper. Cheaper generally means less energy use, because energy costs money. I don't have numbers either but there's plenty of legit reports on reusable bags require more energy than single use plastic. My engineer sense says there's no way a glass container (made by melting sand, heavy) can beat a plastic container in most uses.

If we want to save oil/energy, the biggest use is transportation, so drive something efficient, reduce trips, or both. Driving is way more energy intense than your thermostat or plastic straw. We could also drive slower, though the cost of the extra time in lost productivity reduces the economic gain - my guess it's an overall win.

[JONG SLAUGHTER]

interesting graph

WHAT'S INTERESTING BESIDES IT NOT BEING CURRENT? MORON. GOOGLE WTI CRUDE PRICE.

[XXX-er]

Have had a couple of vehicles that can take it in the past and my wife’s Jeep can as well. When we have used it we notice fuel economy dropped off by a pretty big chunk, guessing 20-25 percent. Not sure if the cost savings cover the loss of fuel economy….never worked it out on paper….but might give it a go again since gas is about $5.50 locally.


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imo you wana think about how/ if it will fuckup yer engine/ fuel system ?

[bluespark]

Maybe 205, but somehow we need to incentivize BO to retrofit more US refineries to be able to process our domestically produced light sweet shale crude. Currently they are primarily configured to process heavy sour crude that comes from such locales as Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Rus, .... Which is one reason why we both export and import crude oil. We ship out the more valuable light sweet crude and import the cheap and dirty sulfur stuff.

Since 2020 we have been a Net Exporter of oil, which means that we export more than we import

If left to their (big oil) own devices it will never happen though. It would take years and $Billions to upgrade even a few refineries , even with Fed $$'s involved

There has not been a new oil refinery built in the US since the 70's

https://www.marketplace.org/2022/03/...heres-lot-u-s/

[bluespark]

At least in CO it looks like the producers are more interested in keeping investor profits high than easing consumer burden.

http://www.realvail.com/colorado-oil...us8qROHSxzATXw

[ill-advised strategy]

The other day I had no eggs in the morning, so first thing I put the last of my $2.50 gas in my moped and go puttering out over the ice to the neighborhood store. As I’m hitting rough ice, the mounts for my front basket failed, so I was looking at that, while riding, and I noticed I’d forgotten to put my gas cap back on the fuel tank, so I stopped in kind of a bad slippery ice spot in a really distracted state, and my foot slipped to the side, I went down awkwardly with the bike, pulling my groin and spraying a big glug of gasoline all over my crotch.
Living the dream, bros. Living that sweet moped life.

[406]

yep, what bluespark said. Funny the people loudest about blaming price of gas on POTUS are also same as don't want government regulations. Tell them they should have invested in big oil stocks.

Perhaps the Dems should propose outlawing export of domestic production?

NYT:

The United States in 2020 was the biggest oil producer in the world and also the biggest consumer — but it is just one player in a global oil market. (“Oil” includes crude oil, all other petroleum liquids, and biofuels.) Much of what happens in the market is beyond the government’s control.

In 2021, the United States slipped to third place in oil production, behind Russia and Saudi Arabia. That’s mainly because large shale companies committed to Wall Street that they would continue to limit production and return more cash to shareholders — “an effort to win back investors who fled the industry after years of poor returns,” according to the Wall Street Journal. Scott Sheffield, chief executive of Pioneer Natural Resources, told investors in February: “$100 oil, $150 oil, we’re not going to change our growth rate.”

U.S. oil producers boosted output by more than 50 percent between 2016 and 2020, so it’s certainly possible for the United States to once again become the world’s biggest oil producer. But investors are demanding that companies do not overspend on new investments this time around.

The United States actually exports more oil than it imports. In 2021, according to the Energy Information Administration, the United States imported about 8.47 million barrels per day of petroleum, compared to exports of 8.63 million barrels per days. Crude accounts for about 35 percent of those exports. One key reason is that foreign countries use more diesel than the United States and the United States uses more gasoline.

The boom in U.S. shale oil has certainly reduced reliance on foreign oil imports, but not all crude oil is the same. Refiners on the Gulf Coast, for instance, have been optimized for Venezuelan crude, which has a high sulfur content. When the Trump administration put sanctions on Venezuelan petroleum, refiners started imported Russian petroleum products because they are roughly similar. Now that Russia has been sanctioned, refiners probably will have to adjust to a cleaner type of crude.

[sirbumpsalot]

yep, what bluespark said. Funny the people loudest about blaming price of gas on POTUS are also same as don't want government regulations. Tell them they should have invested in big oil stocks.

Perhaps the Dems should propose outlawing export of domestic production?

NYT:

The only ones I see complaining about gas prices are those on this 31 page thread who disguise their complaints as "complaining about the complainers".

[mdd206]

The only ones I see complaining about gas prices are those on this 31 page thread who disguise their complaints as "complaining about the complainers".

dddddd

[dunfree]

WHAT'S INTERESTING BESIDES IT NOT BEING CURRENT? MORON. GOOGLE WTI CRUDE PRICE.

damn dude, diaper changing rotted your brain

it was <$100 when posted yesterday and now it’s fallen to ~$94

[DougW]

Why would you buy US light crude when you just spent 10 billion upgrading your refinery to take Canadian dilbit? Why pay $100 WTI when you can get WCS for $10 to 20 less per barrel always that is why you spent in the case of BP Whiting $10 bil. That doesn't make any sense. Of course a refinery that is set up for heavy sour can take light it just runs and doesn't run its cracking capacity and sulphur removal processes. Your still going to pay the world price no matter what you do unless somehow shut off your market to imports but you have trade agreements with countries like Canada so you can't do that.

Isn't it great that yo are able to export? Most countries want to do that. It is unbridled hypocrisy to complain about US oil companies not wanting to go balls deep back into drilling when not that long ago many of these companies were teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and several failed in that space and have reorganized out of bankruptcy. So you expect those companies and their bankers to make the same mistake again?

[oldnew_guy]

Why would you buy US light crude when you just spent 10 billion upgrading your refinery to take Canadian dilbit? Why pay $100 WTI when you can get WCS for $10 to 20 less per barrel always that is why you spent in the case of BP Whiting $10 bil. That doesn't make any sense. Of course a refinery that is set up for heavy sour can take light it just runs and doesn't run its cracking capacity and sulphur removal processes. Your still going to pay the world price no matter what you do unless somehow shut off your market to imports but you have trade agreements with countries like Canada so you can't do that.

Isn't it great that yo are able to export? Most countries want to do that. It is unbridled hypocrisy to complain about US oil companies not wanting to go balls deep back into drilling when not that long ago many of these companies were teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and several failed in that space and have reorganized out of bankruptcy. So you expect those companies and their bankers to make the same mistake again?

I personally hope prices stay high and moves a significant number of people into EVs and other alternatives and long term demand goes down.

All this other hand wringing is a distraction from the long term goal. US reserves are dwarfed by reserves in countries with all manner of shitty behavior so the sooner we can be done with it the better so this problem is never going away. Now, of course we have to figure out how to acquire other commodities to make batteries, etc