What's Blizzard up to?

[Bandit Man]

According to Blister, the 2013 185 Cochise weighs 2250g per ski and the 177 Bonafide 97 weighs 2281g. Wow.

[Westcoaster]

It's a lot of ski for 183cm IMHO.

That's what I figured. Mine just weighed 2340/2360g in the 183...

[gregorys]

So, the next question is:
Is the B97's more damp (stable) than the OG or Carbon Cochise?

I get they're quite different skis, so perhaps it's a pointless question...but it's rather interesting. Most all their other skis and the direction of the company seems to be headed in the opposite direction. More noodle-ish, more accessible, less damp, but more crowd appeal. (Not that that's "wrong" per-se. Heck, I'm a terrible businessman, so I'm not going to even attempt to tell them how to make money making skis - but I can certainly say what I *wish* they'd make.)

[ntblanks]

So, the next question is:
Is the B97's more damp (stable) than the OG or Carbon Cochise?

I get they're quite different skis, so perhaps it's a pointless question...

Totally different skis. B: Very damp (I actually found the 2020 more damp gram for gram but small sample size). Very stable. Wound up like a taught, thick spring. Needs decent speed to bring them to life, to access the stability. Love to be driven out over the tips. Unlike some others here I wouldn't take them into unpredictable snow until I learn to trust the tails. OG Cochise is an easier ski in that you're not planning for rebound as you go and tails are friendlier. Back seat is less of a problem. The weight is similar; the camber profile is totally different obvs. IMHO, YMMV, etc., etc.

[sf]

I pondered it the other day. I already have 187 Brahma 88’s I don’t ski nearly enough.

Aren’t the 82’s a more “serious” ski?

I wouldn't say the 82s are very "serious". I'd say they are pretty average when it comes to how much attention they demand.
I agree with most of what Ugly says, but my experience differs somewhat on some points.
They are pretty carvy, can be loaded easily, as ugly mentions below. I also agree that they aren't especially suited for off piste skiing.

I'm a pretty average skier, prefers longer turns. 190/82, and ski the 187.
- Compared to the 184 Mantra 102 they are way easier to bend, demand a bit more attention if you want to throw it sideways, and are perhaps slightly less stable at very high speeds.
- Compared to my Superbros they can't be compared

They'd make a good hard snow quiver together with your 102s, and would offer more difference to the 102s than your regular Brahmas. Especially for use as a pure groomer ski.

They need to be driven and don't let you be lazy and punish backseat driving.
I agree to a certain degree, but primarily when they're not on edge / in a carve. The tail has a slight kick to it.

They suck on flat hills. I end up having to baby them through turns on the flats because rolling them on edge isn't enough to get them to engage the sidecut
I find them pretty easy to roll over, but they like a bit of speed in order to access the pop and liveliness that they can offer

These will load up tons of energy if you pressure the outside ski soon enough, and reward you with good poppy fun, and let you turn relatively short radius turns, or rail longish GS turns
Absolutely

They do have great edge hold on firm pack, they'll give you some grip on scraped off ice, but not race ski edge hold.
Works fine on ice, but I'm on the 187s and probably weigh 10kg less tha you. I think one should size up on the 82s, unless planning to use them for moguls etc

I'm uncomfortable skiing them off piste which kinds of defeats the purpose of a Brahma.
Yes, but I think these should be regarded as a slightly fat groomer ski. Should probably have another name.

[roQer]

Me think Blizzard unintentionally fucked up the core and the shape of B97 189 making them monster freight trains. I have the pre-production version which according to some posts in this thread might be even stiffer. But even though, hard to imagine Blizzard intended those skis for your average joe who occasionally likes to do some relaxed turns offpiste.

[uglymoney]

I wouldn't say the 82s are very "serious". I'd say they are pretty average when it comes to how much attention they demand.
I agree with most of what Ugly says, but my experience differs somewhat on some points.
They are pretty carvy, can be loaded easily, as ugly mentions below. I also agree that they aren't especially suited for off piste skiing.

I'm a pretty average skier, prefers longer turns. 190/82, and ski the 187.
- Compared to the 184 Mantra 102 they are way easier to bend, demand a bit more attention if you want to throw it sideways, and are perhaps slightly less stable at very high speeds.
- Compared to my Superbros they can't be compared

They'd make a good hard snow quiver together with your 102s, and would offer more difference to the 102s than your regular Brahmas. Especially for use as a pure groomer ski.

Thanks SF! B82

Keep in mind, I don't even bring my 180's to real mountains. 187 is too long for the midwest for me. I'd get 5 turns to the bottom.

Also, access to speed is exactly right. So midwest specific again, some flats are right off the lift or after chokes and I find them uncooperative until I get some push.

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[SoVT Joey]

How about those Hustlers

[stuckathuntermtn]

I think you're on the wrong length if you're after stability. You've got 2 inches and 30 pounds on me. I continue to be impressed by how stable the 188's are, and have zero desire for increased maneuverability. I've thought about getting 192's when deals have popped up, but I've always had a chargier ski in the quiver. I agree that the 11's aren't the floatiest 115ish waisted ski. For me they're a daily driver that works everywhere. On powder days I prefer a Billy Goat or Protest. For skiing fast in open terrain I'd take a Cochise or Corvus. But if I'm going to ski unknown snow or in a variety of terrain and conditions they just... work. They're not the dampest but they don't deflect much. At my size, anyway, they'll haul ass if you don't mind a bumpy ride (unlike the Enforcer 104's, which I didn't like much).

Frankly, I don't need this ski to change at all. Unlike some others here, I didn't like the Gunsmokes much. The tail profile (less rise) on the 11's is a big improvement. I'm sure I'd enjoy a full metal 11, but I bet I'd prefer it the way it is. Add 200g to the ski and it wouldn't be such a joy in bumps and tight spaces. I like all the mass and metal with a skinner waist.

I wanted more the daily driver factor, and the 192 seems to girthy for that where I ski.
Especially now that winter seems to have ended.

[Sylvan]

Much had been said here already, but I wanna reiterate. Just got off a five hour session on some new 189 B97s. Vert eaters, limitless stability, make bad snow irrelevant. Ski bigger than the 191 M102s and a good bit heavier than all the 193/192 Cochises. Dampness on par with Pro Riders (but not as tiring), 184 monster 98s, 187 Showdown 105s for comparison. Smooth on or off edge. Love 'em.

Not turny or pivoty but easy to manipulate if ya drive 'em. Can feather or carve no problemo. Didn't do heavy detuning save for a couple gummy swipes on the tips and tails, but I brought a soft stone out with me and didn't need it. Mounted on the line. Go get 'em!

Thanks for this Bry. As someone who just picked up a 192 Cochise 106, it is very helpful. Sounds like the 106 isn't the 'preferred' Cochise, but pretty interested to see how I like em as a potential DD for where I ski...And agreed re the M102/B97 comparison. For me, I think it comes down to the increased camber underfoot, longer feeling running length (M102s sold, cant compare), and shallower tip rocker lines of the B97 as compared to the M102. As you said, the M102 can be pivoted from the ankle, where the B97 requires more forward input to make em maneuverable. The flip side to this (for me), is the B97 is a more precise tool at lower edge angles including bases flat. I loved the M102 at high edge angles when most of the EE was engaged, but with the B97 I don't hafta think about edge angle at all, only hafta think when its time to release the edge. Find the B97 more balanced in the air as well (though they're both heavy AF). Both good skis, just different preferences. Nerd rant complete. Off to spend more time on the 97s. Cheers.

[swissbro]

So, the next question is:
Is the B97's more damp (stable) than the OG or Carbon Cochise?

I get they're quite different skis, so perhaps it's a pointless question...but it's rather interesting. Most all their other skis and the direction of the company seems to be headed in the opposite direction. More noodle-ish, more accessible, less damp, but more crowd appeal. (Not that that's "wrong" per-se. Heck, I'm a terrible businessman, so I'm not going to even attempt to tell them how to make money making skis - but I can certainly say what I *wish* they'd make.)

Nothing I’ve skied is damper than my B97 including my OG Cochises and Bodacious. Comparable ride to my Big Bro 195.


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[swissbro]

Thanks for this Bry. As someone who just picked up a 192 Cochise 106, it is very helpful. Sounds like the 106 isn't the 'preferred' Cochise, but pretty interested to see how I like em as a potential DD for where I ski...And agreed re the M102/B97 comparison. For me, I think it comes down to the increased camber underfoot, longer feeling running length (M102s sold, cant compare), and shallower tip rocker lines of the B97 as compared to the M102. As you said, the M102 can be pivoted from the ankle, where the B97 requires more forward input to make em maneuverable. The flip side to this (for me), is the B97 is a more precise tool at lower edge angles including bases flat. I loved the M102 at high edge angles when most of the EE was engaged, but with the B97 I don't hafta think about edge angle at all, only hafta think when its time to release the edge. Find the B97 more balanced in the air as well (though they're both heavy AF). Both good skis, just different preferences. Nerd rant complete. Off to spend more time on the 97s. Cheers.

My sentiments exactly regarding the B97. And they work well for me in the bumps.


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[skibrd]

Hun… I sort of want to try the 189 B97s now. Not that you could pry my 194 MX98s from my cold dead hands, but maybe sliding the Bones in would extend the life of my last two pairs of MX98s. That is sort of where my R9s fit though and I really like them.


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[nickwm21]

Pulled the trigger on those Brahma 82s. $299 for a groomerzoomer. I need to find some 80mm brakes for STH2s now.


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[bry]

Awesome addition, they look great.

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[Gweilo]

Re groomers does anyone here have a pair of Firebirds or the likes in their quiver ? It has been low tide in France for more than a month and I ended skiing the HRC more than anything. Feels a bit like driving a cabriolet instead of a suv. Early morning runs on empty slopes it’s almost a different sport, more physical and technical even if those skis are easier to manipulate than the Fis models. I still love my brahmas 88 but the difference is quite striking.


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[SoVT Joey]

Re groomers does anyone here have a pair of Firebirds or the likes in their quiver ? It has been low tide in France for more than a month and I ended skiing the HRC more than anything. Feels a bit like driving a cabriolet instead of a suv. Early morning runs on empty slopes it’s almost a different sport, more physical and technical even if those skis are easier to manipulate than the Fis models. I still love my brahmas 88 but the difference is quite striking.


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i have a firebird HRC in a 174 in my quiver. It’s definitely a sporty ski, makes you move and definitely wants a dynamic rider. I like it, when I want to work that hard. Today may actually be a good day for them in vermont. It’s bulletproof.

[Eluder]

Re groomers does anyone here have a pair of Firebirds or the likes in their quiver ? It has been low tide in France for more than a month and I ended skiing the HRC more than anything. Feels a bit like driving a cabriolet instead of a suv. Early morning runs on empty slopes it’s almost a different sport, more physical and technical even if those skis are easier to manipulate than the Fis models. I still love my brahmas 88 but the difference is quite striking.


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I have some WRCs, pretty awesome for prepared snow. They will hold their place for a long time in my quiver. No beer league on the hill anymore so they see less use recently but this post inspires me to take them out.

[Gweilo]

i have a firebird HRC in a 174 in my quiver. It’s definitely a sporty ski, makes you move and definitely wants a dynamic rider. I like it, when I want to work that hard. Today may actually be a good day for them in vermont. It’s bulletproof.

Exactly !!! I am on the 174 too and loving it but I am thinking about moving to 182 for something a bit beefier. As anyone been on both ? Is the 182 still has that sporty / dynamic feel ? I am 6 foot 2 and 200 lbs on the agressive side. Daily drivers Brahma 187 / R11 192.


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[herrgard]

Anyone with time on both brahma 88 and bondafide 97 and want to compare them? What are they good for, when do you grab them etc.

[spudbumkin]

Pulled the trigger on those Brahma 82s. $299 for a groomerzoomer. I need to find some 80mm brakes for STH2s now.


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Brahma 82 now $199.00 at STP.
https://www.sierra.com/blizzard-2020...skis~d~9694%2F

[skibrd]

Anyone with time on both brahma 88 and bondafide 97 and want to compare them? What are they good for, when do you grab them etc.

Somewhere back a few pages I just did that.

Brahma = BMW M3/5 - low snow, no new snow, want to lay railroad tracks on groomers/hard bumps

Bonafide = TRD Off-road Tacoma - low snow up to 6-8 in of fresh powder, can lay railroad tracks, excels off piste in low snow


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[phatty]

Brahma 82 now $199.00 at STP.
https://www.sierra.com/blizzard-2020...skis~d~9694%2F

Dang. Not sure I can resist at that price.

[spudbumkin]

Dang. Not sure I can resist at that price.

I could not. Just like the Warden MNC 13 bindings from EVO last summer.

[ntblanks]

I could not. Just like the Warden MNC 13 bindings from EVO last summer.

Ha, that was once in a lifetime.