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  1. #76
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    Maggots are debating topsheet structures and Epicski is sharing real info. Sounds kind of backwards...

    Found this on Epic:

    "Some very basic info: New Carbon Cochise, the top sheet of metal in the Cochise has been replaced with carbon, there is much more tip and tail taper and a few millimeters of camber... oh camber, how I like thee. The early release was 100 pairs of 185cm and 192cm. Dimensions are 136-108-122, 27m turn radius in 185. My pair weighs 15.5 lbs with an FKS 180"
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  2. #77
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    What's Blizzard up to?

    You still shouldn't trust everything you read on epicski.

    There are still two sheets of metal in the Cochise. Carbon is integrated into the tips and tails to stabilize the rockered sections. Instead of taking material out of the tips and tails which can make them flap and create a lot of instability, heavier material was replaced with lighter, stronger material. Increased stability was the goal, slightly lower swingweight is an added benefit.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiSt View Post
    Wonder where they got the idea to use that top sheet structure?
    As I'm sure you know, there are only a handful of topsheet suppliers around the world, and trust me, they are all more than happy to divulge which manufacturers ordered what for this year and next. Quit your fucking bellyaching.

  4. #79
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    Wonder if the changes to the cochise are aimed at improving its deeper soft snow performance. I love my cochise as a hard snow ski and haven't had it deep chop or pow but it has done fine in 9 inches. Folks have given the nod to the devastator and supernatural over the cochise in deeper soft snow. Maybe these changes will improve performance in 12+. Thoughts?
    Go Sox!

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post
    There are still two sheets of metal in the Cochise. Carbon is integrated into the tips and tails to stabilize the rockered sections. Instead of taking material out of the tips and tails which can make them flap and create a lot of instability, heavier material was replaced with lighter, stronger material. Increased stability was the goal, slightly lower swingweight is an added benefit.
    ^^^I like what I read here, any feedback about the float question bellow?

    Quote Originally Posted by tpacent View Post
    Wonder if the changes to the cochise are aimed at improving its deeper soft snow performance. I love my cochise as a hard snow ski and haven't had it deep chop or pow but it has done fine in 9 inches. Folks have given the nod to the devastator and supernatural over the cochise in deeper soft snow. Maybe these changes will improve performance in 12+. Thoughts?
    ^^^wondering that too, but I haven't had much problem with float at 150 skiing the 177

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post
    You still shouldn't trust everything you read on epicski.

    There are still two sheets of metal in the Cochise. Carbon is integrated into the tips and tails to stabilize the rockered sections. Instead of taking material out of the tips and tails which can make them flap and create a lot of instability, heavier material was replaced with lighter, stronger material. Increased stability was the goal, slightly lower swingweight is an added benefit.
    Agreed. But at least someone in the know took the bait and gave us what we wanted. ;-)

    Also, all this talk about what changes to the Cochise are hoping to achieve might get us a better/different ski, but I'm pretty sure Blizzard just wants to sell more skis.
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  7. #82
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    ^^^ I get it. But is the attempt to market the cochise as more accessible? It appears to have a pretty accessible rep on the interwebz as well as in shops. I know they are trying to sell more skis but to who (or whom to the English teachers in the house). Are they trying to make the Cochise a ski my 81 year old dad would want to ski? He shreds an old kung fujas fwiw and is my hero but it seems the ski is and was dialed for mags. No speed limit but forgiving when needed to be. You can straight line a sketchy chute and then go make runs with the family. It's a comp ski that with its given characteristics struggled in deep snow for a 108 ski, and that's what appeared that needed to be addressed. Don't know enough about ski design of the new tweeks. My question is - are they going to address soft snow performance or are they a marketing move that for all intents and purposes is putting training wheels on an 8 inch DH bike.
    Go Sox!

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpacent View Post
    ^^^ I get it. But is the attempt to market the cochise as more accessible? It appears to have a pretty accessible rep on the interwebz as well as in shops. I know they are trying to sell more skis but to who (or whom to the English teachers in the house). Are they trying to make the Cochise a ski my 81 year old dad would want to ski? He shreds an old kung fujas fwiw and is my hero but it seems the ski is and was dialed for mags. No speed limit but forgiving when needed to be. You can straight line a sketchy chute and then go make runs with the family. It's a comp ski that with its given characteristics struggled in deep snow for a 108 ski, and that's what appeared that needed to be addressed. Don't know enough about ski design of the new tweeks. My question is - are they going to address soft snow performance or are they a marketing move that for all intents and purposes is putting training wheels on an 8 inch DH bike.
    IIRC, the Rossignol Soul 7 (106-mm waist...same category as the Cochise) dethroned the Blizzard Bonafide as the best selling "high-end" ski last season. When that happens, people start looking at units, trends, and tweaking product lines to regain market share.

    Also, I think that the buyer of the old Cochise is a dying breed...or rather aging. If you bought a pair, you likely loved them, but don't need another pair of the same old thing. Incorporate some weight savings, chase the carbon craze, and call it more accessible and BOOM...you entice the market place to spend more on your product.

    Lather, rinse, repeat...so goes the sporting goods/outdoor gear industry.
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  9. #84
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    Mine certainly don't hand flex like a more accessible/geezer friendly reboot. If we ever get any snow, I'll let you know how they go.

    Agreed, lightening the ski up is likely to move more units, because people have been going apeshit for v-werks katanas, spurs, (insert indy brand here), etc., but it might actually improve the experience for the "target" market, as well as draw in some users who just didn't want to push around that much ski before. Personally, I'm hoping the 192 will still be a full-throttle charger inbounds, but give me just a little more flexibility in trees and tight stuff.

    Besides, its not like they went and ruined it with a complete makeover, like, say, the mantra...

  10. #85
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    I don't think the Cochise is an old geezer ski but it was one of the few boards in the past several decades that had an incredibly broad reach. I saw a few FWT competitors absolutely send it on 185's and on the run down to the lift see a 60+ dude make mellow turns on a 177. Both folks getting what they needed out of the board. My issue and concern is that when you have a ski that unique, and I think all those with experience on this ski can appreciate, designers and marketers and athletes can convolute the changes to the ski because of the broad market. I grew up skiing in New England and can tell you that I would not want this ski on most New England terrain. Hard snow I want something more FIS oriented. Soft snow I'll take a shorter rockered soft tip board. Skiing tahoe most weekends, this is a perfect ski for Kirkwood and mountains that have variable snow conditions and a wide variety of terrain. I know and get the carbon/backcountry trend but I would have love to been a fly on the wall in the marketing/design meeting in the decisions to add carbon, taper the tip, and reduced sidecut. Athletes will be stoked on the possible touring applications, marketers on the carbon, etc. just seems this ski is getting pulled in different directions the last two years. Changes, but none that significant and with clear direction.
    Go Sox!

  11. #86
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    Curious as to how many posting in this thread have spent time on the Spur? Because the taper and carbon in the extremities in no way hold that ski back, if anything and this is pushing it the width and lack of metal are the only deficits I have found in the Spur as a variable conditions ski. Now we have that covered in the updated Bodacious and Cochise. I have quite a few days on the Spur and have been skiing it nearly everyday in every condition imaginable and its that good/versatile especially considering its width. I have been a Bodacious skier since its inception and its become my go to ski for everyday for last 4 seasons, I was dreading the day of the new improved easy listening version of the Bodacious But I must say after putting time in on the Spurs if Blizzard got the balance of skills right and I think they did the New Bodacious is the ski I lust after!!
    Last edited by Poacher; 01-12-2015 at 02:04 AM.

  12. #87
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    So it's pretty well established ZeroG is going to be a backcountry line & the freeride line gets carbon tips and tails. I saw a pic a week ago of the new freeride line... the tips do resemble the square tip of the Spur. They keep all the same graphics as this year, with the exception of the Spur, which goes all black. More importantly, it looks like the Bodacious changes the sizing up from 186/196 to 185/193 for '15.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poacher View Post
    Curious as to how many posting in this thread have spent time on the Spur?
    Mine are waxed and ready to go, but mother nature isn't cooperating with my schedule.

  14. #89
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    Zero G.

    4 models. 85mm(1 mens, 1 womens), 95mm and 108mm waist widths. Have yet to ski them, but they certainly are light and have a stout hand flex.

  15. #90
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    Some less than detailed images and info in German

    http://www.spoteo.de/nachrichten/nac...iefschnee.html

    1750g per ski for 185cm zero g 108 - that is pretty light.

    Correction:
    The images are pretty high resolution when you zoom in:
    http://www.spoteo.de/extras/mediathek/imagehq_9981.html
    Last edited by meina222; 01-12-2015 at 08:06 PM.

  16. #91
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    1250g for the 178 95mm.....

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post
    1250g for the 178 95mm.....
    Let me know when the zipper's off and i can feed the TGR endless quest for knowledge

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kied View Post
    Mine are waxed and ready to go, but mother nature isn't cooperating with my schedule.
    Me too.

  19. #94
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    Curious about the durability of the mixed metal/carbon ski. Seems like the transition between materials would be a weak spot and would be located at a high load area of the plank.

    I have banana-ed two 193 cochises this winter. Love the ski but it is way too brittle....

    sent from the future using my mind powers
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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    Curious about the durability of the mixed metal/carbon ski. Seems like the transition between materials would be a weak spot and would be located at a high load area of the plank.

    I have banana-ed two 193 cochises this winter. Love the ski but it is way too brittle....

    sent from the future using my mind powers
    I think there is a lot to be said about construction technique... there are several examples out there with use of metal and carbon

  21. #96
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    What's Blizzard up to?

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    Rawr

  22. #97
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  23. #98
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    Incoming black powder ski complaints....
    Best Skier on the Mountain
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  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    Incoming black powder ski complaints....
    Ha, that's the truth. Personally, I think they look tits.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    Incoming black powder ski complaints....
    And black touring ski complaints... tsk tsk Blizzard

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